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Comment by comrade1 | Hacker News Reader

Please don't call yourself an engineer unless you've got the ring.

While I understand the sentiment, this is pretty insulting to a lot of people who bear the title "engineer" without having completed an engineering degree. You're not going to be able to win this, it's like being upset that the definition of "literally" has changed. Many people without degrees are employed by companies like Google and Microsoft with the title "engineer."

Some of my friends don't have college degrees at all, and they demonstrably understand computer science fundamentals, algorithm design and software development better than many or even most college graduates.

Maybe it's like that in the USA, but it isn't like that in most of the world. 'Engineer' means something.

I can respect that. But to pose devil's advocate - why do you believe the education is special?

If we begin with a formal analysis, this sentiment begins with "Is it possible for an individual to learn everything required to be a fully competant software engineer without going to university?"

If you agree this is possible, that there is at least one human being capable of this, then the "special" meaning of engineer becomes limited to title and investment paid in a college education. It no longer is an absolute determination of skillset or intelligence.

There is data in favor of that statement. Google conducted a study that showed an extremely weak correlation between degree and hiring results, at least within its own company. And there are numerous examples of people who have accomplished quite a bit in the realm of legitimate software engineering without a degree.

Engineer is a description of what someone does, not what qualifications they have.

But what _does_ it mean?

I don't see how what the rest of the world does is relevant to what people in the US call themselves. We don't expect you to follow our cultural norms. Don't expect us to follow yours.

I wasn't given a ring because my school doesn't do the ceremony :(

Actually, I had this conversation with someone in Italy, who said I couldn't put "engineer" on my business card because of some certification or another that was missing. What I did was give him a quick lab tour, with emphasis on the battlebots. It worked.

Why? Do you think there's something exceptional about being an "Engineer"?

In some countries there is, and it's a legal thing. It'd be like calling yourself a doctor when you're not.

It's like this in the USA, too. The only reason why people aren't penalized for calling themselves engineers when they are not licensed is because they work under the umbrella of a corporation that grants them an exception to the rule.

In many countries, there is: you can't be an engineer without ... an actual engineering degree.

In Canada everyone with an engineering degree gets a ring. I do find it funny that I work with several Chemical and Mechanical engineers who hold the title Software Engineer, but myself with a Comp Sci degree get the title Software Developer.

Please don't call yourself an engineer unless you're licensed:

http://ncees.org/about-ncees/news/ncees-introduces-pe-exam-f...

$10 makes you an engineer. Please.

http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/?page_id=237

It's actually a card, not a ring. ;)

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