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Comment by Potando | Hacker News Reader

"nothing could be done over the phone, though I was welcome to walk into a branch and try my luck there" - This is sadly common with UK banks. They want you to go to the branch for all sorts of things that really don't need it, but the branch is always closed or overcrowded when you have time to get there. It doesn't help that you have to use your own branch, not any of the others - as if they don't have a computer network between them? Or perhaps they feel the local staff somehow remember who you are and what your tedious banking problems are? Somehow they decide there's no need to be open in the morning, evening or Saturday afternoons, even though they're turning people away and squeezing the bloated queue inside the doors so they can get ready to close. I was also overseas when I was told the only way to get the few thousand pounds from my account was to go the the branch. Eventually they found another way.

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Speaking of bank opening hours, this is something I really don't get. Where I live, all branches of most of the banks are open only Monday-Friday between 0900 and 1700, which is exactly when most people are at work. Every time I need to visit the bank in person (and 'till recently my bank didn't have cash deposit machines), I need to take half a day off at my work.

It's similar with some services, i.e. barbers. What I don't get is how do they make money when they're opened only when people don't have time to visit them. There must be something weird going on there, otherwise I'd expect the market to force them to shift opening hours so that working people could use those services.

I mention this every time someone talks about small businesses closing in town centres. It's not the 1950s when wives would go to the shops. These days there's a bimodal distribution of society: couples working or commuting for >8 hours a day who have money but no time, and unemployed people especially single parents who have time but no money.

Banks have these operating hours because the accounts on which they make the most money are small and large business accounts. Their profit margins on personal checking and savings accounts are much lower. It's all dictated by the market.

As for barbers, most shops in the U.S. are open until 7 or 8pm and weekends, pretty reasonable.

Banks basically don't need to innovate on their hours. If all banks are open similar hours, none of them feel the need to impact their costs by opening longer knowing that it will just force their competitors to do the same and level the playing field again, with everyone (banks not customers) losing out.

Barbers, all the ones I've known in a few UK cities have always had at least a couple of evenings they would open for, if not all evenings (though I generally go during the day anyway). Presumably because there's so many more than there are major banks, and because it's a key decision making factor for consumers - people are more likely to think "I'll get my hair cut at X instead of Z because it's open when I want a haircut" than "I'll bank with X instead of Z because some day I may prefer the opening hours". Not sure if my different experience is based on location or the fact that I generally go to not-cheap places which wouldn't use the term "barbers" to promote themselves.

They're finally innovating here in Canada.

Most branches are open until 7pm on one weeknight, and my local CIBC is now open 9am-midday every Saturday.

The commercial banking industry has been watching TD Bank for the past few years.

Banks compete in 2 main areas: interest rates and services. TD Bank has a far better service offering than Citibank, Chase, etc. TD Bank offers ATM fee reimbursement anywhere in the world, much longer branch hours, free coin counting, nicer employees, etc. And yet TD Bank is not crushing the competition. TD Bank's better service offering is not enough of a competitive advantage to offset the stickiness of commercial banking.

A person's main checking account is a pain to transfer for most people. To change your checking account you need to: 1) Wait days for the new account to be approved and initial transfer to clear 2) Wait to receive new checks 3) Reset up your recurring bill payments

The reason that most banks don't innovate is that customers move to better banks very slowly.

The purpose of a bank is to lend money at a price. They want to hold on to their deposits as much as possible. I bet if willing they would only be open for an hour a day.

Same thing in Australia. Have to visit the branch for simple tasks that should be doable over the phone. Plus the branches are often busy and close early.

I recently got married and my wife changed her surname to my surname. The process of updating this was quite a pain for most Australian banks (even when she was just an additional card holder on a credit card).

However, for American Express card, this process was extremely easy. Phone up, customer service emails, reply back with a copy of marriage certificate, new card in the mail within a few days. Perhaps not 100% secure, but easy. Perhaps they take more processes from the US?

Interesting - what trouble did you have with the banks here?

I am a NAB customer and when we got married it was one form to fill in (with associated documentation) to update my wife's details across all of the accounts, including having new debit/credit cards sent out by post within the week.

In Australia, just use ING Direct. They do banking right. (The ING Group also operates in other countries. In Germany they are called DKB.)

Does ING Direct still exist? Within the US it became Capital One 360.

Yes, in other countries. They are originally Dutch (The N in ING stands for Netherlands).

In Germany it's called ING-DiBa[0], actually.

DKB (Deutsche Kreditbank) is owned by the Bavarian state bank (Bayerische Landesbank).

[0]: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ING-DiBa

Oh, true. I mixed them up. Thanks for correcting.

They are both good for retail.

I just moved back to the US after living in London for three years. I opened a local Lloyds Bank account when I got there, but was advised by my accountant to be paid into an offshore account for tax purposes. This turned out to be surprisingly easy to do through Lloyds International, and was facilitated by the local banker though they have no direct access, they were able to get the Lloyds International bankers on the phone and verify my identity, etc. It's actually a very sweet setup because the online banking makes it seamless to transfer money between the accounts, so I can have all the convenience of local UK banking when I'm there, but all the convenience of the International Phone Bank with its extended hours and designed to be used by customers anywhere in the world. I'm not sure of all the implications for UK citizens, but if you spend a lot of time abroad I'd say its definitely worth looking into.

>> "This is sadly common with UK banks."

Really? In Northern Ireland at least it seems to be the opposite. They're closing as many branches as they can and forcing you to do everything online or over the phone.

speculation: when you bank at a physical branch they have you on video, which reduces fraud risk

I'll give you a concrete example of something that HSBC UK requires visiting the branch for: opening a Certificate of Deposit. That is, if you have money already in their bank, and you want to take some from your current or savings account and move it to a CD, you must do it in person at the branch. The CD would be in the same name as the account the money came from; there is no risk to the bank at all. Yet they require a scheduled appointment at a limited selection of branches.

So they can pitch other services to you?

HSBC is also not a competitive bank - they have some of worst interest rates on the planet. HSBC is telling their customers to take their business elsewhere without so many words.

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