Iceland to build first temple to Norse gods since Viking age
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
I'm not entirely sure that you CAN have something like a church congregation without some "glue" for social cohesion. I don't think that "Just be nice" is sufficient. Whether it's a shared dogma, or some shared activity, or (perhaps most effective of all) a shared enemy... groups seem to need a strong purpose in order to endure over the long-haul.
The US two party system provides a far-right choice and an ultra-extremist-right choice. This is a little too international for some to handle, or you can think about it as they're not modifying their message to fit local culture, which probably doesn't help recruitment.
Its a big world, and the sermons posted on the local church website here, might have little appeal to the attendees of your local church.
From the transcript of the MLK sermon at my local UU church:
"We just heard words from Dr. King, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny.” I have always found a profound parallel between that quote and the seventh principle of the Unitarian Universalist Association – that we affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all life, of which we are a part. Sighing with relief because I am not being treated unjustly is not an adequate response for a Unitarian Universalist when so many are forced to go without what they need."
Its not exactly "workers of the world unite" or "eat the rich", then again its not the contemporary "Christian" message of "let them eat cake".
I admit I am intensely biased, if I were legally forced to join / attend a church it would almost certainly be this one.
Of course. My comment was made as someone who 'doesn't know' but leans towards theism. And you certainly don't need religion to be a good person but as with any writings/teachings there can be value there. For example some people find the guidance of the writings by the Stoics useful. If we took the element of God out of the bible and distilled it down to useful teachings on life I wonder how useful non-religious people would find it. Would it be useful in a similar way to the writings of the Stoics for example?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
Thomas Jefferson. Yeah... that Thomas Jefferson... not just some random dude with a common name.
There is a propaganda campaign to convince people that americans were united as hard core puritan evang neocon christians continuously from the earliest days until a very recent fall like when the Beatles arrived, but that fantasy has nothing to do with reality, of course.
Not strictly, no, but belief influences decisions, so false beliefs can lead to bad decisions.
Without getting into a "does God exist debate", I think there is considerable evidence that the inclusion of the belief in the existence of God and other similar aspects of religion that are distinct from (but part of the justification for) the behavioral elements you call "the good parts" are an important part of the memetic glue that holds the whole structure together.
But, sure, you see things a lot like that in, say, some Unitarian Universalist groups, and even some overtly atheist groups who have similar practical morality to what you call "the good parts" of Christianity, and consciously have adopted ritual structures mirroring those of Christian Churches -- without God -- as ways of maintaining community and venues for organizing charitable, etc., work.
The whole structure of what? Europe is largely godless yet the society holds together just fine. There's really no need to confound "treat others as you want to be treated yourself" with anything supernatural.
The structure of the system of practices which includes the things described as the "the good parts", insofar as it makes sense to "branch" a religion and separate the belief in God from "the good parts" and continue as an organized system.
> Europe is largely godless yet the society holds together just fine.
I don't disagree with that, but I also don't think that's an example of what k-mcgrady was suggesting with branching Christianity and keeping "the good parts".
Completely false and uninformed statement. Some EU countries are very religious and show no decline in active participation. There are unrests, but they have little to do with religion or its lack.
> Completely false and uninformed statement.
Not necessarily. I know people from Europe who call themselves Christian, and yet when asked when was the last time they went to church, they basically just went for weddings and funerals.
So, sure, in a census or some government form they may self-identify as Christian, but for all practical purposes they are "godless"; IOW, "god" plays minimal to no role in their daily lives.
Degree of participation in religious ritual and degree of belief in God are not necessarily related. There's certainly some correlation, but its quite possible to believe that God exists, and that he isn't overly concerned with whether you show up at a particular building on a weekly basis.
> So, sure, in a census or some government form they may self-identify as Christian, but for all practical purposes they are "godless"; IOW, "god" plays minimal to no role in their daily lives.
You seemed to have conflated "God" with "formal religious ritual".
This is a decent summary of Unitarian Universalism. Also, some groups of Quakers lean heavily in this direction. There's still some mysticism there around "being held in the light" and "moved by the spirit" but people seem to mostly mean that metaphorically and don't talk much about God or the Bible.
If you're willing to twist the list of "good parts" possibly into an unrecognizable controversial form, there's always prosperity gospel. Most people might not think they're selecting the good parts, but the PG participants obviously disagree.
Another interesting area research along the lines you're discussing would be Buddhism in general and specifically the somewhat heretical writings of Stephan Batchelor.
(for example: http://www.wisc-freemasonry.org/basics-of-freemasonry/qualif... )
Personally, if I had a choice, I'd love to see things go towards a more decentralized role (personal and private spirituality) than yet another centralized role like organized religion, even if some new "ethical" religion takes over. I do sometime fantasize about some new spiritualism that's outcome based, but once more than x amount of people are involved, then politics takes over and any ethical integrity is lost.
As a recent dad, I have found no real replacement for all the religious holidays part of my culture. How do you replace Christmas? How do you handle relatives asking when you will baptize your baby? My non-religious wife and I take a hybrid role where we'll celebrate certain things for the sake of family, but won't do others like baptism. I think shopping around for one of the more 'less religious' religions is just a waste of our time and a disservice to our kids. I'd rather teach my kids the history, criticism, and the folly of organized religion than shove them into one my liberal values will tolerate. Dragging them to a Universal Unitarian service just seems to be kicking the can down the road.
As an older dad, raised by non-denominational parents, you have a categorical error if you think chopping down pine trees, standing in line on black friday, and getting drunk watching football on TV are biblical in nature. (edited to add, we do that stuff for "fun", not because jesus told us)
I don't know how you jumped from "religious" to "biblical"; none of them are biblical, sure, but at least the pine tree one has religious history (through a number of different religions on the way.)
For general design considerations for a "post-rationalist, post-nihilist" religion, however, I recommend http://www.moreright.net/postrat-religion/. I think you will find some insight in it regardless of what your politics are. I especially like the idea of a "Truth-Myth barrier".
I know, right? Those fig trees are such scumbags; they totally deserve to wither and die.
;)
I was raised Mormon. The Bible, Book of Mormon, etc. still live in my bookshelf alongside my most treasured books on science and computer programming - partly because of the significance they had on my upbringing and family identity, and partly because one does not have to believe the stories within them literally in order to benefit and learn from them.
In this regard, "holy" scripture is less of a strict historical record (though there are some elements of that as well, embedded within the fanciful depictions thereof) and more of an equivalent to Aesop's fables - stories which were meant to educate, and to convey abstract concepts difficult to succinctly and effectively communicate without such fanciful metaphors.
But while we're talking about stealing things, I think this went in several directions, with lots of Norse views and figures being influenced by other religions, including Christianity. Vikings and their sagas aren't exactly ancient.
http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/maeshowe/maeshrunes.htm
[At almost 5000 years old Maeshowe definitely qualifies as ancient.]
A perfect religion for atheists.
So it has not boosted our national pride. The thing is that the 'Ásatrúarfélagið' has always been quite visible over here. I've always seen it as a "rebel"-religion over here.
EDIT: after writing this I realize your comment was probably sarcastic :)