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Comment by HarryHirsch | Hacker News Reader

What's it with the anti-intellectualist strain in America? Learning a foreign language at any decent level means becoming acquainted with the literature written in that language and with the culture of the country where the language is spoken.

Learning that kind of stuff is good for you. Even if it doesn't translate into increased material wealth.

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Well, firstly, the researcher quoted extensively in this article is a Dutch-born scientist at the University of Edinburgh.

Secondly -- and from here on out I'll be derailing to rant at a more general 'you' than you specifically -- what is with you g-d global tourists and cultural dilettantes who think a cultural diet composed equally of small portions of everything is the only valid choice? And why does it always come back to Americans, specifically? (besides, you know, us all being assholes?) When you are off visiting a fishing village in Malaysia, do you tell the fishermen, "You should really visit New York sometime and try the pizza. It will really broaden your horizons!"?

There is an absurd amount of culture available, more than any one person could ever consume. Why is it so hurtful to you that someone might be content immersing themselves in their own culture, or -- worse! -- reading Proust in translation?

And why does it always come back to Americans, specifically?

It doesn't; the others just don't get read so much because they're not written in English :)

You're really arguing that learning about other cultures doesn't have a benefit? Cross cultural pollination not only contributes to a feeling of good will between counties, but it's responsible for lots of cultural and technological innovations. American culture is just a mish-mash of other cultures. Think about it. You eat spaghetti!

No, I'm saying that there are multiple ways to live your life. Cross-pollination may be a good thing, but the bees are not the flowers. Some people need to be locals, and being a local is not inferior to being a cross-pollinator.

> and from here on out I'll be derailing to rant at a more general 'you' than you specifically

At least you warned us, but how is this at all related to the comment you are nominally replying to?

Learning a whole new language just to read literature or enjoy another culture is a lot of work. Lets not pretend people are doing that all across the world. If you fall in love with a particular culture go right ahead. But if you don't, what then? Learn a bunch?

I bet nearly all bilingualism is caused by immigration, cultures with historically close contact, and people learning a lingua franca.

Part of the reason the US tends to be monolingual is because we have only one native language. English is the lingua franca of North America and now the globe.

Spanish is growing because the fuzzier and fuzzier border with Mexico.

But it's kind of a waste to learn German just so that when I got a trip there once every 5 years I'll be more able to drink up the culture.

I've picked up some basic Portuguese in 2014. One doesn't need to be anti-intellectual to think that my efforts might be better spent learning a new skill rather than a small variant on a skill I already have (speaking, reading and writing).

There are some benefits - Brazilian and Mozambican ladies are beautiful. But that's hardly an intellectual benefit.

So what does "good for me" mean in concrete terms? What am I missing here?

The mental exercise is definitely good. If you only knew one language knowing another will probably increase your knowledge of your native one as well.

I'm not saying it's a must but it can come handy and be a healthy exercise.

HN is severely disappointing. Here I was thinking it was different from Reddit regarding downvotes and intelligent discussion but it's not.

It's downvote on disagreement.

Please don't post comments like this. They break the guidelines ("Resist complaining about being downmodded"—https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and the downvote being complained about is often soon corrected by other users. That's what happened with yours.

We all know how annoying it is to have a reasonable comment downvoted, but (a) it happens to everyone, (b) sometimes it's just a misclick, and (c) changing the subject to that only lowers the signal/noise ratio.

Noted. I was negatively surprised after seeing a trend. Won't happen again.

I think most research on the topic is pretty vague, but from personal experience, after learning my 3 languages, adding more isn't much of a hassle (although, to be fair, I live in a bilingual city).

The 3rd language was Bulgarian, spoked by probably less than 10 million people worldwide, but it also helps to understand many similar Slavic languages.

I have become much more open and exposed to other cultures, feel more comfortable traveling alone off the track (I have hitchhiked in Syria before the war, amongst other places), and I can watch news or movies in a bunch of language (from those 3, I picked up basics of other languages, and from combinations, it can be enough to manage with a lot of situations).

Portuguese ladies are also quite something. I should know, I'm married to one :-)

I find your comment to be strange; the article is not an argument against learning another language or experiencing another culture. Rather, the article is about the rather simple question: do people who are bilingual enjoy cognitive benefits over those who are not? There is no judgement attached to this question.

> Learning a foreign language at any decent level means becoming acquainted with the literature written in that language and with the culture of the country where the language is spoken.

When your first language is English, both of these things are often possible without actually knowing other languages.

How do you mean? Translated literature loses a lot of nuance. And it's hard to be immersed into a culture when you don't speak the language.

Even a very good translation is not the original. It's basically a separate work. I mean, I've heard some lovely poetic German translations of Shakespeare. But it's not Shakespeare, not really.

Funnily enough, some would argue that Shakespeare in modern English also isn't real Shakespeare!

Check out the original prenounciation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s

I've seen it argued (IMO pretty convincingly) that people who don't speak English get a more authentic Shakespeare experience than those of us who do. English speakers almost always get Shakespeare in the original language, which is nominally English but in reality is just on the edge of understanding. There's a strong current of "this is really different!" any time you get actual Shakespeare, and it really makes the stuff feel unnatural. Whereas people who speak, say, French get Shakespeare translated into modern, idiomatic French and it's much more natural that way.

The original isn't necessarily the best or even the most authentic.

Almost all non-native English speakers conflate language and culture to a degree that they would interpret your statement as an inherent impossibility.

For example, some notions of nationhood are described in terms like "speakers of the Japanese language".

Exactly. And it's obviously of great help when encountering people who speak said language. Communication is a wonderful thing.

I'm acquainting myself with contemporary literature of my current country of residence; specifically the contents of newspapers. I'm a good American now? Or, is my sarcasm down-vote worthy?

What's with commenting on an interesting article with an irrelevant and baseless attack on my country?

Easy upvotes.

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