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Comment by sysk | Hacker News Reader

I'm actually wondering about the "Porsche or a civic" question now. Can you afford a Porsche on ~$120k a year in the US? (I'm not a car guy)

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You piqued my curiosity - a quick search turned up an article[1] that has some info:

"Take the Porsche 911. Its buyers are 86.8% male with the average age of 51 and median income of $390,000."

[1] http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/05/cars-sex-signals-forbeslife...

With leasing,you can afford pretty much any car you like(unless you start talking about ferraris of Bentleys) if you make an ok salary[1]. My only experience is in the UK,but I am certain that if you made $40-50k a year you could easily find a leasing plan that would let you afford the monthly payment on a Porsche - even better if you pick one that's a few years old, then it's really easy. You couldn't buy it outright, you probably wouldn't want to pay off the rest of the car at the end of the lease,but yeah, you could absolutely do it.

[1]and don't have kids/mortgage to pay off.

define "afford". lots of people see that they have around $300 left over every month after paying rent, food, verizon and cable tv, and drop that directly on a $300/month BMW lease. can they afford that?

I was hoping there would be an obvious answer. I guess I could rephrase the question this way: "is it common for people who make ~120k/year to drive a Porsche?" or "if you'd have a median income of all Porsche owners, what would it be?". I just want to get a general idea.

Is it common? No. Is it possible? Yes.

If you bought the Civic instead, and invested the difference, you'd be able to buy a lot more than a Porsche.

It's definitely not common. Partly because $120k doesn't go as far as you'd think if you live in a nice city, and partly because not everyone wants a Porsche. If you're into cars, and really wanted one, you could be driving a used 911 on that salary (if your other bills/expenses are reasonable, and you go with a tame model.) The thing to remember about expensive cars though, is the high cost of ownership. Insurance will cost more; Parts will cost more; Repairs will cost more; Tires and gas will cost more...

Bit dated, but interesting: http://www.csparks.com/bmw/CarPriceVsIncome.xhtml

Thank you for that, certainly the most interesting is to see the most/least frugal car owners at the bottom of the page.

Seeing Lexus and Audi owners in the frugal list is kind of funny.

All the Lexus owners I know have emphasized the TCO rather than the luxury aspects to me. It's a nice car, but it's also a pretty reliable value.

Similarly, I've known some people who wished they had a Lexus, who I wouldn't call frugal.

Engineering is the process of making trade offs to accomplish specific goals. Budgeting is the same thing. At 120k you definately have enough money for a porche. However whether you can "afford" it depends on what trade offs you make.

You could easily afford at least a boxter at that price and I don't think a 911 would be too much of a stretch[1]. It really depends on your priorities, though (i.e. do you also want a really nice house/condo, boat, cabin on a lake, etc.) But I would say anyone making $120k/year who wants a Porsche definitely has one. (We are only talking about financial restrictions/opportunities, of course.)

[1]MSRP:

911: $85k

Boxter: $52k

See @simantel stat above. Almost no one earning just $120k / year is driving a Porsche. There's not as much disposable income in a $120k/yr wage as you might think.

There's as much disposable income as you're willing to dispose of. I live comfortably on less than 20k a year. If I had a 120k/yr job but otherwise maintained the same lifestyle I could totally drive a Porsche, but my inclination would be to give it away or save it instead.

Few would consider money "disposable" if you had to make sacrifices for it.

@zaroth probably has NYC/SF in mind, where most $120k+ salaries probably are. Pay $40k tax (fed+state+local), at least $30k for rent+utilities, and you're left with $50k for food, clothing, gym, social expenses, travel, and everything else. Out of that, you'll be paying for gas, tolls, insurance, maintenance, and parking. Parking alone will run you $5-10k (unless you're okay with street parking and having that sweet ride scraped up end to end by a truck next week). You could do it, but not because $120k is Porsche-driving income.

Just because not many people making $120k/year aren't driving a Porsche doesn't mean that they can't afford one. In his first question sysk asks if people making that much can afford one. Later, he rephrases the question as, do people making that much drive them. The answer to the second question is no. But I still believe the answer to the first question is yes.

How is it possible for someone to survive okay on $40k/year, but if they earn an additional $80k/year (maybe an extra 40k/year after taxes?) they can't afford a $50k car? As I said, it comes down to priorities. (We're assuming that they don't live in NYC. I don't think it's fair to use that as an example for car affordability.) Even if we assume 80k/year as the baseline, that's about $20k/year extra after taxes. Can you buy a Porsche with cash without saving any money up? No. But if you save for a little bit or get a 3-5 year car loan it's easily affordable. So as I said, I believe that anyone who makes that much and wants a Porsche can easily make it happen.

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