Dirty Little Secret of Success | Hacker News Reader

Dirty Little Secret of Success

zeldman.com

154 pointsadamhowell69 comments

The existentialists (well, at least the one that matters, Heidegger) would say that to be human means that one never forgets a deep "uncanniness" or an emptiness, and that part of the drive to succeed (or do drugs or find god or stay busy driving the kids to soccer practice) is a desire to fill up this fundamental emptiness.

This emptiness stems from the fact that you consciously wonder who you are ("consciously" meaning with words in your head), and, in the long term, no final answer seems to be forthcoming, even though you may tell yourself otherwise, or go to church to hear someone else tell you, etc. The emptiness is part of the human condition and can't actually be fixed or filled. We all feel it very deeply, and there is a huge industry around making us feel sure of ourselves, and/ or keeping us so busy in the world that we don't have time to contemplate the ever-present internal void.

The only "authentic" (Heidegger's term) way forward is to just embrace the "uncanniness", and quit wasting time worrying about how you can't "just enjoy life" or "live always in the moment". I think of this as the way of life that is "un-selfconsciously selfconscious" (tm). Look for my new book in the Self Help section soon!

Or, one could also say that Nietszche, Heidegger, and Kierkegaard just had A LOT of bad days and wrote some books about it...

Why would anyone downvote this entry? Not that I care, just curious...

Putting the dumbheads who upvote to express agreement aside leaves us with the real reason to upvote: you want to highlight worth-to-read stuff.

I've read your text and frankly it didn't give me much. I thought the Heidegger == 'The existentialist datapoint interesting for my internal map of everything.

What I meant was "why would you downvote my comment?" Is not giving you much a good reason for downvoting? Seems ok if it is, but I only would downvote things that are stupid or obnoxious, and I don't think my comment was either....

Ups, sorry. Huhm, well, maybe they "disagree"? I don't know. My guess is they don't get the conncetion between Zeldman's blogpost and your comment here. You posted something unrelated, they think. Or maybe you are just an asshole who comes over here mentioning a writer and his philosophy, go away with that book-crap.

I can't believe how many people agree with this guy.

Seriously, why would anyone "break" themselves? I thought we were just learning from our mistakes...

I am very productive these days. I think when you truly love what you do, being an entrepreneur is just something you can tell people so they understand _why_ you don't work for someone.

I've worked at 9 - 6 before. I will never go back. Mostly because of the reward for not breaking myself and forgetting about what I love.

I mean how many people just like the joy of creating something for themselves and no one else. I do.

I think the point is that if you create something for yourself and no one else, then you won't be a successful entrepreneur, because to succeed at that, you have to create something other people love and secretly, you want them to love you, not what you create.

And you agree with this point? I just like building things. I will always do this. However, the sheer joy of something i've built and someone likes using is a journey I am loving. I have this theory that if you build something that you can personally use, then you've built something worth while. Now, as far as wanting someone to love you, who doesn't want that? I certainly don't want to be hated. But I also don't want to compromise myself either.

I agree with his point and your point. I have done what you are doing: Build something I love. But remember, your customers are not you. When you start selling your invention, that thing that makes you happy, your customers may not be happy. If they aren't happy, you won't sell a lot of it.

The author of the blog post is saying, "If you don't care if your customers are happy with the product, you won't be a good entrepreneur." By good entrepreneur, he probably means sell a bunch of stuff.

Just liking to build things or just liking to build things for yourself is not enough to be a successful entrepreneur. Building a commercially viable product takes lots of iteration and design changes and polish that individuals don't need in product they use only for their own purposes.

Your theory is a good one. It's a theory I had 3 years ago and pursued and now I have something I love and my customers love. The problem with the theory is that you loving it is not enough for your customers to pay for it.

Personally, I like both (a) making things and (b) making other people happy. It's why I cook dinner for friends. It's why I develop products. I think, as humans, we all have some broken parts in us, and hopefully adding value to other people's lives can help us with them. For some of us adding value to other people's lives includes building products and organizations.

Emopreneur is emo.

Joking aside there is truth to the post. Brick walls are there to show us how much we want something.

His twitter updates have been reflective/borderline depressing lately as well. A lot of mentions of divorce. Clearly the guy's going through some stuff.

That's for sure. He recently divorced his wife and lost custody of his child. It's a lot of painful stuff to deal with and it's very much bleeding into his web presence.

That I didn't know... and for which I'm very sorry for him. That has to be crushing.

Please forget my previous comment.... don't want to kick a guy when he's down.

Glad that you noticed, or at least were made aware of, the full context of Zeldman's post via the public HN community and back-channels.

I urge some self-reflection via a few full listen-throughs of the early audio-only CalacanisCasts immediately following your tenure at AOL. It was especially galling given your impending fatherhood (congratulations btw.) and his current family status.

Given his near continuous contributions to the Web community over the years, Zeldman has more than earned the right for a little public venting.

Agreed. He's basically been the face of modern web design from the beginning. Even his emotionally-charged posts contain valuable bits of wisdom.

What are you referring to with CalacanisCast? something about having a family and being a startup CEO?

You mean the part where you say, "I have the inside line on this, trust me", right?

The inside line I'm talking about has nothing to do with his divorce... has to do on a business level that I know he's not crazy about me steeling his former partner to work on Weblogs, Inc. (who became very rich, 18 months after leaving happycog).

Don't apologize for kicking him while he's down, and then continue to give us information that accomplishes the very thing you're apologizing for.

You have a talent for making the entrepreneurship world a lot more dramatic and childish than it should be.

"Emopreneur" - great coinage; if you're not going to take the domain name, could I?

Careful, that's a load-bearing wall...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sh1mmer/4035024371/

I think it all boils down to a certain "I'll show them" personality trait that acts as a catalyst when confronted with agony, ridicule, betrayal, lack of recognition, etc.

I really like Mark Solon's post on being motivated by that sort of drive, "Don't let the bastards grind you down": http://www.highway12ventures.com/2009/10/15/dont-let-the-bas...

An interesting take on it, though I would not go so far as to say that you must crave attention and affection in order to be a success.

There are other motivations to work hard and succeed that don't spring from inherent flaws in our person and oftentimes these convictions prove to be more selfless and enduring than any narcissistic need for recognition.

You don't have to feel unloved in order to be discontented with the state of the world. You don't have to crave the love of others in order to be brokenhearted over the suffering that people go through.

In short: a deep and lasting desire to make the world a better place does not first require an unfulfilled need for love. The passion can be fueled by a desire to better the world and the lives of those around us.

Looking at the deluge of success related postings on HN, I wonder if the dirtiest secret of them all may be that success is 95% chance and 5% things that are too heterogenous to classify, even for those who experienced them.

Sounds like the TED talk from Alain de Botton where he talks about the old days when we saw a homeless person on the street and considered them among the "less fortunate."

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/alain_de_botton_a_kinder_g...

Sounds like there's truth in that, and it's absolutely necessary to be relentless about marketing your product. It's a sad fact that no one cares about your application, book, etc. until you start telling people about it.

I wrote about my own experience of marketing in a blog post entitled: If you build it, they will ignore it.

http://www.jgc.org/blog/2009/06/if-you-build-it-they-will-ig...

It is tough for geeks to be relentless about marketing. We're already outside our comfort zone even just beginning to market. Got any tips? I've been following Chris Brogan and get the idea of marketing being about empowering people, but I'm still in the market for advice.

I think you've won half the battle by having a product whose story matches a big need. I'd do two things:

- Read everything patio11 has ever written about Adwords and A/B testing. Contact him with specific questions if necessary. He has the clearest, most detailed info out there for marketing a part time software project into a business - Consider changing your home page to show, rather than describe, how the use case for your product matches people's lives. Something like Step 1: Upload photos -> Step 2: Mix a drink while your photos are automatically categorized -> Step 3: Go play with your kids while we automatically email your pics to your loved ones.

Your home page doesn't convey just how ideal your product is. Adjectives and testimonials are ignorable because people can lie about them. Take a look at the home pages for Dropbox or the 37s projects - brief statements, demo video, tour pages. You want people to know how to use OurDoings in less than 30 seconds.

I know about OurDoings b/c I've followed you on HN and the OurDoings, and I think the above-the-fold part of your homepage doesn't tell the right story convincingly. But like I said, you're halfway there because your product is perfectly amenable to this kind of demo/tour/story treatment.

Email me at peter at pchristensen dot com if you want to discuss it more.

Do you think it can be done without video? To many, the words "upload photos" imply additional work. Is the slogan "Don't think; just upload" a good one?

The reason I suggested the video is because that's where the bar is for trial products. A tour page, a 30-60 sec video, and a clear pricing page - these are so ubiquitous that it's the language consumers speak.

Also, you should probably go to all the photo sharing sites and make sure you provide at least as clear a pitch and supporting materials as them.

I think "Don't think; just upload" could work. Something like "You send the pictures, we make the albums" would convey the benefits too.

I must say that your book "The Geek Atlas", uses a unique and quite interesting style. Perhaps you might know of a book that is similar in style but based on literature?

Something like: The booklover's Atlas

When I'm working just-for-myself, I am not nearly as focused as when I'm working on someone else's project. I waste a lot of time basically goofing off (like now).

I've tried to figure this out, and what Zeldman is talking about is a big part of it. Approval from others is a lot more important to me than I wanted to admit.

"Emopreneur". Pretty funny. Is that your own, Jason?

Be careful not to become too uplifted by his words or you'll get all happy about yourself and loose your drive.

You can joke about that, but it happens. I've had a particularly good few months, and as a result I find myself getting less done than last year, when I was frequently miserable. In that last two months, I've done maybe one really neat piece of work, and that was immediately after a bad weekend.

I'm not exactly complaining about it, but a part of me wants to throw myself into an upsetting situation just so I'll get back to obsessing over my work.

I'm the same way. My best work has been happened on some of the worst days of my life. I think it's an "Everything sucks so I have to make something that doesn't" sort of thing.

"Talent Code", Daniel Coyle.

http://www.amazon.com/Talent-Code-Greatness-Born-Grown/dp/05...

The book suggests that great talent -- specifically "success" in the athletic / superstar world -- also has environmental factors. There are environment cues that activate subconscious fears. For example, training facilities that train world-class athletes tend to be in the dumps, sending the subconscious cue, "You have to get out of here". Another environmental cue is seeing graduated successes. For example, a soccer talent hub has little kids running around playing soccer, older kids playing pick-up games, amateurs who are trying to make it into the pros, and pros who are both friends and rivals.

In regards to financial success, one environmental fear might be having a deep-seated financial insecurity. For example, Tony Robbins was a successful NLP trainer since he was in his early 20s; he made it big briefly than splurge all of his paper wealth. He didn't actually acquire lasting assets until his first child was born. However, it could be argued that since he grew up poor, seeing his newborn child tied into that insecurity he grew up with.

I have a book recommended by Tim Ferris called "Leap" (Rick Smith, http://www.amazon.com/Leap-Simple-Changes-Propel-Career/dp/1...). I have not yet finished the book. However, Ferris's review (http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/09/13/bill-gates-r...) was essentially about how some of the biggest successes actually hedged their risks.

I've been setting up a new business right now in real estate. It is very different from what I was used to -- technologies. It is much more people-intensive, and most of the people I am dealing with don't really do emails. (That is changing, but not yet). The fears I usually come up against are the same kind of fears I have the first time I signed LLC paperwork about five years ago. That time, I was physically shaking when I spent three days putting together the operating agreement. The next two business entities I formed were as boring as "going down to the post office and opening up a PO box". My point is, if I try motivating myself with a craving for attention, that's too much of a struggle. That creates paralysis in me. Your mileage may vary.

The hack I'm trying now uses a definition of "courage" that wipes away fear going forward.

A part of the human nature is to keep pushing ourselves, keep improving, never becoming fully satisfied - this has resulted in great achievements for our ancestors. This urge to keep improving is a lot stronger for some people than others and I think it's very strong for entrepreneurs.

The bottom line is that I don't think the urge for success is driven by a longing for love and approval, but an urge to keep improving and keep getting better. That's at least my drive :-)

I think I caught a similar theme stated differently Thomas J. Stanley's "The Millionaire Mind." He noted that the entrepreneurs weren't the "beautiful people" who had backing, schooling and the right background to be accepted into mainstream, high wage jobs. Not to say that many of those beautiful folks didn't gain wealth, but they often did it as doctors or executives rather than business owners.

I think there is a definite need to prove oneself to society, a parent, or a lover that drives those who start businesses, technical or not.

How does that explain Bill Gates, the world's greatest entrepreneur who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth?

Someone's having a bad day.

Somebody in the comments of the original article mentioned the author is going through a divorce.

I don't think it's really about having a bad day or even a 'tough life' - just a feeling of something missing.

Check out the top few graphs of this page: http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/ar...

The theory there is a weak father figure in Steve Jobs' life (he was adopted) caused him to "form a unique view of things and be driven to find followers."

Sounds a little hocus-pocus maybe, but I think there's something to it.

There is some merit here, but I personally don't think life is that hard. There are other sources of drive, don't you think? Like achieving something that nobody else did before? Like getting into the flow of building something?

Funny, I saw an interview with Stelios (of EasyJet, Easy*) and he was saying his motivation was always to prove himself to his father, even after his father died.

Pfft.

Yeah, or maybe I just want to get some things done because I'm frustrated with the things around me. People can take their recognition and hang it on a wall.

Ah, the mantra of the mad scientist: "I'LL SHOW THEM! I'LL SHOW THEM ALL!"

Great post, it's about trying the impossible. There must be a black hole in your mind that you have to fill.

Wow, I should be a millionaire.

A new startup idea - ridicule other startups until they feel they have hit rock bottom then they can succeed.

The mixed metaphor per sentence ratio of that article was off the bird in the hand charts.

Another oversimplification and bad at that.

It's a common knowledge - why, for example, most of world's religions claims that fasting are good - fulfilled body is deaf and dumb.

Think about sublimation as a greatest source of power and will.

You need to be starved and in need to get maximum of your brain capacity. Or think about visiting an unfamiliar place (city, country) how you became sharp and alerted.

So, nothing special. Just pathetic.

"You need to be starved and in need to get maximum of your brain capacity."

Are you serious? It's when I haven't eaten enough in hours that my "brain capacity" gets to an all-time low. Observe how nothing ever really gets Done in societies with extended periods (ie. days or weeks) of fasting during that period. Go to those impoverished areas of the world where people still suffer from hunger and ask them about how their brain capacity is at a maximum. Human beings need food, news at eleven.

It is a very big subject. Fasting is a way of training self-will and conquering yourself. It is long and difficult process.

And it is not just about energy or calories. There is also spiritual part.

What a load of horse sh@#$%.

Zeldman is basically trying to explains why he doesn't have any drive and hasn't had a breakout success: because he's so well balanced and normal and all the successful people in the world have some sort of a mental defect.

Really?

It's not possible to be driven and well-balanced? Everyone who is successful didn't get enough love from daddy?

Even if he is right who cares... we're all adults now and have free will. My life kicks ass and I'm driven like a mofo.... and it has nothing to do with money or fame... it has to do with solving problems, building a great team and having fun!

Jeff: save the dime store BS and get back to coding some dope shit. Keep trying... as some point you'll get that big exit! Don't give up!

> "doesn't have any drive and hasn't had a breakout success"

He pretty much single-handidly started the web standards movement with DWWS (http://www.zeldman.com/dwws/)

A List Apart is one of, if not the, longest running and most influential web magazines around.

An Event Apart sells out every session.

Happy Cog is an extremely successful design shop.

Zeldman.com has been around forever and he has the respect of just about everyone in the industry.

He's a craftsman, Jason, not a suit. He doesn't need a breakout success, just to enjoy and improve at his craft.

And lastly, he's a human being who seems to be going through some stuff and he wrote a blog post around it. Ease up.

blah blah blah... yes I know he's done a cool blog for a long time, but he's got MASSIVE entrepreneur/big win envy.

Everyone wants to hit a home run, and it has nothing to do with being a craftsman or a suit... he's hating on people who have won big because he hasn't.

I have the inside line on this, trust me.

Dude, for real? You sold a weblogs company to AOL -- who everyone in tech knows are morons. No one gives props to Powerset either. They found a bigger fool too.

I mean, you founded MAHALO, the pets.com of the 00's. Zero tech, zero innovation, just slaves. "Mahalo everyone!" You have invented and created nothing in your life.

Seriously, you are an ant running up an elephant's leg with rape on its mind. Zeldman is FAR beyond you technically. Zeldman is to web standards what Picasso is to modernism and what you are to tabloid journalism.

Mahalo actually is paying hundreds of contributors hundreds of thousands of dollars a year at this point (since we launched Mahalo 2.0 in June). We're creating a lot of work/income for unemployed folks all across the country and we're proud of that. There are no slave... just folks doing good work and doing well for themselves.

In terms of technology you would be surprised. Our Answer product is the most advanced on the planet right now, and when you see Mahalo 3.0 in December you'll be fairly impressed I think.

On the subject of Weblogs, Inc. one of the insider pieces of information you might not know is that we built the most advanced blog publishing software at the time (called Blogsmith), which AOL also bought. It's the highly scalable, group publishing software that Wordpress and Moveable Type never had the time to build, and it's why TMZ was able to grow so quickly, and why Engadget and Autoblog became the #1 blogs in their vertical.

AOL was not a fool to buy Weblogs, Inc., in fact AOL's entire strategy right now is to be Weblogs, Inc. If you listen to Tim Armstrong's talk at Web 2.0 this week he discusses growing from 500 to 3,000 freelancers and launching hundreds of vertical content sites (aka Blogs). When we sold weblogs, Inc. it had 500 contributors around the world... and that after only 18 months in business (yes, we sold the company for a reported $30m after 18 months).

I concur Zeldman is more advanced at CSS than I am, but Zeldman wouldn't last more than five hands with me in headsup poker, raising money, building a business, building a team, doing M&A, building a brand or building a product that passes 3, 5, or 10M unique visitors a month.

However, I might hire him to do some CSS or a logo. Then again I might put that work on 99designs too. (zing! pow!)

Wait a second, why am I even responding to someone with elephant rape fantasies?!?!

Wow, I had no idea this reflective and self-critical post was actually all about you. Thanks for enlightening me.

You've got it the wrong way around. He is talking about his own brokenness, not anybody else's.

Ah yes, the "I've got the inside scoop blah blah blah you'll just have to trust me" argument. Brandished like a true former journalist.

What the fuck are you talking about? Zeldman is talking about creative entrepreneurs. Zeldman is a creative entrepreneur[1]. I'm pretty sure you weren't on his mind at all, unless you know something we don't.

[1] man 5 happy\ cog

sorry jason, your life kicks ass now because you were a miserable nerd at some point. after denial comes acceptance.

oh, you've figured me out.... I was nerd and got beat up in school. That made me want to start companies and work until the break of day..... I've never felt any true love.... booooo hooooo for me....

whatever.

There is no "one theory" of personality when it comes to success and motivation. Motivation is very layered and complicated. People are motivated by competition, by the love of the actual act, by pride and by a higher calling--and some can experience these things to various level simultaneously.

While I do think many successful entrepreneurs are more focused/less "balanced" (whatever that word means), it is absurd to say you can't be happy, productive, driven and competitive and still be a cool, happy and content person.

Anyway, Z obviously hit a nerve.... let's all go to two therapy sessions this week and get back to work. Right now I've got to get Mahalo in to the top 100 sites on Quantcast or I'm going to jump off Santa MOnica pier and end it.

jcal

Since becoming a father of two young daughters, and seeing their personalities grow (from birth) to their current ages (2, 6) I can say that their personalities were fairly developed at around six months. Sure, they couldn't talk, but their actions and their crying (all infants seem to have different kinds of cry's based on the emotion they are feeling) I can conclude that a lot of personality, and motivation come programmed in your genetics.

The way both of our girls' personalities have been since they were infants has been amplified by experiences and learning. Now that they can communicate better, and we understand them more, our guesses as to how they would "turn out" are fairly accurate. It's almost scary as to how much has not changed with their personalities since birth.

Take care,

Bruce

Reply on news.ycombinator.com