Sublime VS. Atom: Will GitHub's Text Editor Beat the Standing Champion?
blog.takipi.com
blog.takipi.com
That's a bold statement. Of ignorance.
Nobody I know personally or work with daily uses Sublime Text. Therefore I could just as easily declare Sublime Text a "unknown and unused text editor relegated to obscurity".
That's most probably the correct list. But again that's a perception. At least in the 'ruby' community 'vim' reigns supreme. Of course VIM and Emacs have ~20+ years of life, might not be exactly 'fair' for other editors.
Now a dispute could be made about JavaScript developers, since you need really tons of plugins to make vim (jslint, syntax, etc.) and you always need a browser to test your code (most dev are interested in client-side JS development).
I think it's interesting that you put quotes around both words surrounding community but not around the word community itself. I think what you perceive as the ruby community is actually a very small subsection of the actual ruby community and that is only a very small subsection of the entire community of people that use plain text editors.
The learning curve for VIM and Emacs is so high as to almost be prohibitive for what is probably the vast majority of users. What I've seen from only a few minutes of googling is that, in the surveys I've found (https://blog.codeanywhere.com/most-popular-ides-code-editors... & http://www.sitepoint.com/best-php-ide-2014-survey-results/, for example), VIM and Emacs are really no where near the most used editors. And I think that should probably be expected.
I just think that people in this community too often think of themselves as the norm, when our very presence on a site like Hacker News places us very much outside of the norm. Outside even the norm for people in the tech community.
Apparently there is enough demand for Vim key-bindings that it seems most text editors and IDE's have them available.
> The learning curve for VIM and Emacs is so high as to almost be prohibitive for what is probably the vast majority of users.
Vim is probably more widely used by developers and system admins than say... writers. If you have been able to tackle the learning curve of learning to program or learning to administer Linux then the VIM learning curve is just another day at the office.
Also, most developers are not Linux administrators... It's not that learning Vim or Emacs is hard, what's hard for most users is increasing one's productivity enough to warrant learning Vim or Emacs, especially in the short term. So most developers/users don't; they use text editors that have much more in common with word processors, which many have been using their entire lives.
Your insights are spot on :-)
ps. I thought being part of the 'HN community' is the norm for a but maybe it's not. I can't really tell without numbers...
2. Emacs/Nano
3. Notepad++
I also believe there's a correlation between beard length and emacs usage.
1. Visual Studio.
2. Everything else.
Unsurprisingly, Visual Studio is therefore not at the top: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F07zh7%2C%20%2F...
I understand that there are huge software houses that develop using MS Technologies, but I'm certain that it is not the majority.
1. Notepad++
2. Vim
3. Sublime
4. Emacs
Haha, nobody might have guessed Notepad++ is the leader. Of course, we all are the Windows haters, and my post is so going to be downvoted for pointing this out.
P.S. Its maximum of 5 search terms, but I tried different variations. Play around, google trends has many gems to be uncovered.
(Thanks to @necrodawg for the google trends idea)
Goolge Trends - http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F01yp0m%2C%20%2...
And with getting older. It's just an editor that makes me type text. Yeah yeah productivity but as I think more than I type it's not such an issue as long as I can do most of the basic editting ;)
Lets also not forget that Sublime text isnt free, and i am sure paying users dont really want to be left in the dark for 6 months to a year.
Vim is nice, but some things are better done with the mouse. Selecting and moving text down a few lines is so much faster in ST. And there's a Vim plugin for it anyway, so you can have the benefits of both Vim controls and a good interface. ST really is a great editor and to get Vim even close in terms of functionality, it takes way too much time configuring it.
Of course, this is all anecdotal. It's likely that the vast majority of working developers never post screencasts or really discuss their editor of choice, and just get on with their work. So in terms of code actually created, it's a very poor assessment.
The git source tree highlighting and the image previews are the only two things I liked about it.
I always thought browsers and development for the web is more complicated then it should be so bringing that mess over to the desktop is just a bad idea.
I really wish Sublime would be Open Sourced already the developer should have gotten its moneys worth by now and is clearly not investing much time into it so let the community take over.
This coming from someone who actually payed for Sublime since i considered i got enough value from it.
There are definitely ways to incorporate Javascript into "native" programming. In Yosemite you can write Javascript that directly loads and calls native frameworks (like you can with Python/ Ruby). If you wanted you could write an entire application in Javascript, but taking shortcuts and trying to use HTML and the DOM for your interface only leads to these sorts of severe issues when doing anything nontrivial.
Putting aside trolling, it's hard to see the value in a blog post like this. It's the same tired Emacs vs Vim arguments warmed over. Emacs / Vim / Sublime / whatever are all basically the same. It just doesn't really matter.
P.S. Get off my lawn.
If you don't care about improving developer experience, then get off MY lawn.
For one thing, CodeMirror is a hell of a lot snappier, especially for larger files. I use Light Table a lot (which does use CM) and while Atom is miles ahead UI-wise, LT is just so much smoother.
On top of that, with CodeMirror Atom could support some of LT's more interesting features, like interactive eval and inline results. Could've been such a great combination. (Though maybe their editor could support some of this – is there an API reference somewhere?)
For api docs see https://atom.io/docs/api/v0.175.0/TextEditor
Thanks for the link, btw.
What I take from it is that Atom has improved a lot since the last report I have been reading, e.g. you can now compile it on Linux, the speed is still slow but it seems to be usable now, it takes reasonable features from other tools like Sublime, and the plugin idea seems to be working quite well. And I am quite surprised that the git support does not seem perfect yet. I would expect a team at Github to have an editor integrate especially well with git.
The community argument from the article is a good one. While Sub has a big community now, because of its closed source nature the community is not free to grow as it likes. A free, plugin focussed editor might be able to take its place.
But also one that seems to have been forgotten for a while. I've used many text editors that where much much slower at search&replace than the trusty Unix tools of old. If a modern text editor comes along and rediscovers those old tricks again then that is definitely worth mentioning.
Using APM and stars, I can also keep my Atom plugins in sync across different computers on different platforms (mac/ubuntu) running Atom.
There are still a number of annoyances though.
Something that immediately comes to mind: I'm using Polymer.js at the moment and I have a lot of inline CSS/JS in my HTML Components, when I comment out some CSS/JS (using cmd + /) it always uses a <!-- HTML comment -->. I've now learned this behaviour but it's still a pain in the ass. Lots of little issues like this.
Performance of Atom is decent enough on my new MBP and it hasn't been a big issue for me. I'm not working with large documents though.
I tried Sublime shortly thereafter -- too much nag (buy, buy, buy popups starting within hours of install), bye bye.
Settled on VIM, split buffers and a few handy plugins: CtrlSpace, Golden Rule, Neocomplete, etc. This ancient editor packs a punch, it's my go-to for client-side development, well happy.
Could Atom have moved into the lead?
However... It is slower than SublimeText 3, noticeably slower. I tend to keep applications open for weeks, using "sleep" mode overnight, and Atom still tends to crash after several hours. This means I don't use it for real work, yet.
While Atom does indeed keep getting better, ST3 is becoming more and more frustrating as package updates now have a tendency to vomit errors when ST3 starts up. It complains about not being able to load a config file for the package (like Rust mode or the Cobalt theme). When this happens, ST3 disables the package, but a restart will clear the hiccups.
SublimeText is clearly the better editor, yet there has been no progress on the beta. Worse, this has caused a division of effort among third party providers who have to support ST2 and ST3, with no clear end in sight for an ST3 stable release.
Still, back to sublime for now...
I feel editors are taking a step backwards recycling and repackaging the same ideas many previous editors had before plus eye candy.
I always read Python is much slower than JavaScript, but Sublime just is an instant experience and Atom feels like starting WebStorm, just with lesser features...
2 Megabits (0.25 MB) sounds like an incredibly small file size limit for any modern text editor. Is that actually true?
Similarly with a comment on downloads on cellular networks and caps - again, if someone says "I have a plan that limits me to 4Gb", who actually, sincerely thinks that that means "four gigabits, i.e. 500 megabytes" as opposed to 4 gigabytes?
I guess I fail to see what value you're adding to the conversation, particularly given the tone. It's clear you know exactly what the poster meant, but rather than acknowledging it, you've offered some fairly unhelpful, sarcastic remark instead.
While usage caps are typically in MB, GB or "Unlimited", bandwidth is usually measured in Megabits and Gigabits. It might seem pedantic, but why not use the correct units in the first place to avoid potential confusion?
> It's clear you know exactly what the poster meant, but rather than acknowledging it, you've offered some fairly unhelpful, sarcastic remark instead.
I didn't mean for my comment to come across as sarcastic. I haven't tried Atom myself so I don't know if the limit is actually 2Mb or 2MB. Even the latter is a very small limit for any text editor. Would you not agree?
Also has things like in-line editor (super useful!) and you can open .psd files and get CSS hints from it.
Don't know what's your problem with Creative Cloud©. If you want to use the CSS hinting you don't need to pay for it, just to sign up and upload the .psd.
1) it requires you to be online and on a very fast connection (psd files are huge)
2) it's absolutely unnecessary for this feature and doesn't provide an advantage for the user
I was wondering where the catch is with Brackets and it seems like it's only meant to get people to use the Adobe cloud. Reading psd files from the text editor is great for web developers and Adobe knows that.
I hope other editors will implement this without the cloud requirement. When they do, Brackets will be cancelled in no time.