When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for being women, I don't think another redundant law is going to change your behavior.

This seems like a feel good exercise. People still buy drugs? Pass another law that says trafficking drugs is super duper illegal. Another heinous murder? Make it extra illegal to murder someone. In fact, make it extra illegal to murder someone with a specific type of weapon.

This stuff doesn't seem to matter. Drug dealers know they face stiff penalties if caught. People who have decided to murder another human really don't care if the penalties are higher if they use a gun versus a tire iron. And, misogynist employers aren't going to be swayed by yet another law that says treat all people the same regardless of sex, for reals this time.

Soon after I got my first job out of college my employer told me it was "not a good idea to talk about your compensation" with my co-workers. You know how they say "consider the source" when you get information? Why would my employer not want me to share my compensation with my co-workers? _Because it benefits them_ if their workforce is oblivious about who is getting paid what. Make no mistake: sharing compensation information freely among your colleagues is, to most employers, the thin edge of a long wedge towards organized labor.

Personally, I would do it more often if people weren't so freaked out about it. So the bosses have waged a good campaign: it's a social norm.

I once believed in transparency about that. I told my salary to a friend I just helped to get hired in the company where I already had a few years of experience. Upon hearing my higher salary, he immediately went to my boss to ask for a raise.

Due to an incredible incompetence of the HR department, I once saw the salary of a lot of different people in the 30 people company I was part of. I was not shocked by the 2-3x that a senior developer was making compared to me. I was shocked to see that our CEO had the highest salary (5x to 6x) for the job he did. That was actually one of the element that made me consider resignation and freelancing.

I think that one of the thing that hiding salaries causes is that it makes it impossible to talk about the cashflow of the company without people being able to compute if they are below or above average (and when the CEO earns the double everyone earns, the average will be pretty high) but it makes it harder for employees to understand what clients are important, what resources are available for a project, and so on.

[0] This is obviously quite difficult because performance can be very tricky to measure fairly and can cause problems in comparisons to other positions. The same is true of performance related bonuses which I am fine with keeping private.

The bonus is easy to compute: It was a percentage of how much the company charged the other company for the work you did.

Like if the job you did that day cost $200k, you get 2k.

But to get back on topic, I think everyone should take a look at a book called "Winning Through Intimidation" by Robert J. Ringer.

The title is misleading. The content is "How not to be manipulated by people who use intimidation tactics, and here are the typical ones they use subtly so there's no way you could complain, and here's how to recognize what they're doing, and here's the way to deal with it".

I'm cool with the first part. Information makes the free market better. The second part is problematic and will just add paperwork with about as much hope of being honest as the justification body shops use to get H1Bs instead of local workers.

There's social norms that make many people feel uncomfortable talking about money. One of the big ones being jealously. Either you being jealous of other people's success, or vice-versa.

Be sheer luck, when I entered the tech workforce some 30 years ago, I developed a close group of friends, also in tech, and we would be open about our compensation and help each other with negotiation. I cannot overstate how valuable each of us have found that.

There's two big reasons: First, starting a new job (or sometimes asking for a raise) is a big life change. There's a big emotional element & it's hard to be rational. Having people you trust who have your best interest at heart but do not have their thoughts clouded by emotion is huge.

Second, negotiating is hard for most people, especially if you don't have much experience in it. Talking strategy & approach as a group gives everyone more experience, and there's the added benefit you guy in knowing you're not crazy. You're less likely to have doubt & more likely to stick to your guns.

Throughout the years, each of has leapfrogged each other multiple times. The guy making the least suddenly becomes the guy making the most. When that happens pretty much everyone is happy/excited. The general view is "hey, now we now there's more out there!" The realization is that it's not us against each other, but us against everyone else. The more the group collectively makes, the better.

Real estate transactions tend to be public as well. I can look up how much the house down the street sold for. Imagine if this information were not public, but a few insiders were able to get at it. They'd have a monumental advantage over everyone else. That's kind of the position employers are in relative to employees.

One angle on this - I think that any employer that uses the H1B or other worker visas should be obligated to share compensation information for all workers (not just the visa recipients), the same way public universities and government organizations are required to. That means name, job title, and total yearly compensation.

1) no longer around in the form they were, but still not saying

2) truthfully, some of the consultant bill rates given the other expenses like taxes & insurance were not that far off the equivalent employee salary - particularly the H1B body shops

3) I think some were getting paid about 25% of their bill rate

You say, "Are you ashamed of how much you pay me?", and start looking for another job.

In Canada, those rights have more teeth, and that alone produces much higher unionization.

When I started several years ago it came to my attention that the existing developers and IT staff were drastically underpaid (there was one other internal developer, an internal IT guy, myself, and a few outside contractors). I brought it to the attention of my bosses (managing partners) and have made it my goal to bring other developers salaries up to par. When I was hired I was making almost double what the other two were. I realized one of the biggest risks to the company was if either one of them decided to look across the street and find they could probably get a 40% raise on the spot. If they left a lot of knowledge and investment would walk out the door.

Over that past few years we've weened ourselves off the contractors/consultants and have hired internally. We are now at ~8 developers. In order to hire the more recent developers we've had to offer market rate salaries. During reviews and hiring I've always told employees not to discuss their salary, mostly for psychological reasons. No matter what someone will feel bad. "What if you make more than them? They might not think you're worth more than them. Causing tension and friction. What if they make more that you? Same thing."

I know that some have discussed it salary with others. At times it ticks me off.. makes me want to ensure they aren't lying by reducing their or withholding their next raise. (Please note that's a immediate gut reaction and I throw it out the window) quickly.

I'm happy to report, after much effort, I've been able to show the managing partners again this year that some developers still need larger than COLA raises (some should get 20%, 15%, 10% and most 5%). They are weary but I think they finally understand the importance of this. We do reviews and raises in a few months, and when I sit down with them I will still insist on not talking about salary or raise (amount/percent) and use the same explanation as before.

Yes, no one wants to be taken advantage of and the easiest way we think about doing that is salary transparency. That would work great in a world were psychology and subjectiveness didn't exist. I tend to be a very logical, analytical, rational personal. And as much as I hate office politics, emotions getting in the way, and having to hack psychology, they exist and as the logical, analytical, and rational person I think I am those things must be factored into going about things.

If you find out you're making more, question why your co-worker is making so much less. It could be you the next round.

If you find out you're making substantially less, you can try bringing it up with your boss, but your boss will likely channel that to HR and then HR will tell you why you aren't worth any more than your current salary (that's their purpose in this situation, don't fool yourself otherwise).

However, if you use this information as a sign that you should go interview to determine your market rate, and you get a better offer somewhere else, you can now use that as leverage against your current employer.

If they need you, they'll match the offer, and your compensation problems will go away for the next few years. At some companies, this is the easiest path to a raise despite the negative perception of "accepting the counter."

If they won't match the offer, then that's a great sign that it's time to leave.

IMO you should treat your job choices as an asset. If that asset starts lagging the market, you need to invest in another one.

all salaries are public in a spreadsheet. _YOU_ can see what everyone is getting paid. I think it's pretty interesting.

It's in my contract with the agency that the rate they pay me is confidential, to be discussed with no one. Is that also illegal?

Complete salary transparency is what should be pursued, if at all possible.

For the individual, not having public salary works great because you really do have negotiating power. I no longer work for anyone, but when I did, I would regularly ask for a higher wage at my next company for essentially the same position.

If my next company knows that all other companies in the industry are paying 20% less for my position, why would they pay me more?

I've also heard stories from Sweden where larger companies will pull tax returns of the other companies (and employees) they are doing business with and will base their contracts on this information being a regular practice(giving lower rates because they know the company is making more money. Or even not dealing with the company at all because they are so small).

I've never understood why smart people want to willingly give the more powerful in this world even more tools that will work against them.

I always find it amusing how hard people will fight over something so small, when there's so little to gain, people will work so hard for it.