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Comment by mathattack | Hacker News Reader

Chicago's a great city, and I've spent a lot of time there. But....

- It's cold.

- The academic environment itself is better in general business. Two top MBA programs, but the best engineering school is far down state.

- It has winter.

- The ecosystem supports growth, but not hypergrowth. Companies like BaseCRM do well starting there, but move to Silicon Valley when it's time to explode.

- Snow without mountains

- Not as socially, ethnically or culturally diverse as many other tech hubs.

- Did I mention that it's cold?

All that said, I love to visit in the summer.

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"Not as socially, ethnically or culturally diverse as many other tech hubs." Chicago has world class museums, music venues, restaurants and ethnic enclaves like Ukrainian Village, Maxwell St., Devon, Pilsen.. and you mean to tell me there's more diversity up in the bay area? LOL

Your chances of seeing multi-ethnic couples, kids and neighborhoods is 10X in the Bay Area than Chicago. (And yes, I've lived in both)

I'd be very curious to see actual statistics around that. This is a belief that is highly subject to selection bias.

I myself don't like the Bay Area for my own perception of the lack of diversity there, but again I would not be surprised if that is my bias showing through.

(and for instance I live in a neighborhood that has a history of multi-ethnic families that goes back to before that was socially acceptable nearly anywhere else in America)

Chicago is pretty segregated as whole. The North side is predominantly Caucasian and the south side (save for a few neighborhoods) is predominantly African-American and Latino.

Sure Chicago is segregated (though I find the North/South boundary, like all generalizations misses a considerable amount of complexity) but this is true of all US cities.

San Francisco for instance is segregated pretty dramatically with the Asian population (and a mixture of Latinos) pushed to the western edge and the white population centrally located. Not to mention the elephant in the room of Oakland.

When we start talking about diversity of other sorts such as income, education, nationality etc the picture is similar.

That is to say, my experience of San Francisco was one of homogeny, the opposite of my experience of Chicago. But I've experienced Chicago more broadly as well, so as I say I'd like some numbers to backup the assertion that San Francisco is more welcoming of inter racial families.

What on earth does interracial marriage have to do with software companies? Do we need to fly planes full of singles between Hyderabad and Changdu to jumpstart startups in Asia?

Your chances of being priced out of your "ethnic" non gentrified neighborhood is also 10x in the Bay Area than Chicago. (And yes, I've also lived and worked in both)

Just looking at racial demographics, the level of diversity is about the same, it just skews differently. The % white and latino are about the same, but Chicago has as many black folks as San Francisco does asian folks, and vice versa. San Francisco's quite a bit more wealthy, though - median household income upward of $73k vs $47k. Perhaps that contributes to more of a perception of diversity for certain folks.

Chicago's hypercentralized layout may play a part there, too - the downtown area where tourists go is really just for tourists, and to some extent it's particularly for tourists making weekend trips from the suburbs. With the possible exception of Chinatown, all those great neighborhoods you're mentioning are pretty far off the beaten path for a visitor.

> San Francisco's quite a bit more wealthy, though - median household income upward of $73k vs $47k.

That $2k-ish per month is entirely eaten up by the cost of housing. Median rent for a 2BR in SF is $4,000/mo. Chicago is a little over half that. Not to mention much lower taxes than in California.

Chicago apartments are way cheaper than $2k a month. Most of my team pays less than $1k in great neighborhoods such as Lincoln Park and Wicker Park. If you want a building with a pool, doorman, gym, etc. then you can spend $2k a month but you would have to try to find a place that expensive.

To give perspective in Chicago $4k a month can you get a modern 3,000 sqft home or the penthouse in a swanky building vs a studio/ 1br in SF.

If a 10 minute subway ride to Wicker Park is too far outside downtown, I don't know what to say.

> - Not as socially, ethnically or culturally diverse as many other tech hubs.

Chicago is almost an even mix of white/black/Hispanic, and has old money patronage that supports cultural amenities that go beyond what you have in SF. And there's no single social group that overwhelms Chicago's culture, like tech is doing to San Francisco and the Bay Area. Last time I got a haircut in Palo Alto, the woman cutting my hair was talking about startups.

The engineering school issue is definitely a fair point.

You forgot to mention how the January wind sucks all the breath out of your lungs.

Hey, summer in Chicago is a great month. :)

also when construction starts :)

> The ecosystem supports growth, but not hypergrowth. Companies like BaseCRM do well starting there, but move to Silicon Valley when it's time to explode.

You could probably rewrite that as "not Silicon Valley". Or is there some other location you have in mind that could also support "hypergrowth"?

Illinois, Purdue, Wisconsin, Northwestern and to a lesser extent Michigan dump tons of engineers into Chicago.

Yes although arguably dumps just as many into the valley and NYC

And outside of that, there's a big loss due to proximity. Northwestern hasn't had nearly the impact on tech as Stanford or Cal, and UIUC's biggest alums are in the valley.

You make good points about the universities and growth potential, but you're dead wrong about the social aspects of the city.

Also, if you think the weather is bad here try living Cleveland - 4 month gig there was more than enough for me. I opted to move back during a blizzard.

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