Amazon buys secretive chip maker Annapurna Labs for $350M | Hacker News Reader

Amazon buys secretive chip maker Annapurna Labs for $350M

extremetech.com

45 pointsDiabloD321 comments

Some data points:

From a Forbes article: "AWS sees networking as the critical path for cloud but also realizes that the relative cost of networking increases as server and storage prices drop rapidly. Networking is, in Hamilton’s words, “frozen in time” as the vertically integrated ecosystems generate “indefensible profit margins”. AWS’ solution is to build a custom networking hardware and protocol stack and to own their own private long haul links."

from this Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/benkepes/2014/11/25/scale-beyond...

So Amazon is really really trying to reduce the cost of Networking.

From the extremetech article: "Analysts have pointed to server networking chips as Annapurna Labs’ main focus. These chips could be used to move data more efficiently and save power in data centers."

I think it's pretty clear why they are making this aquisition...

I doubt if reducing cost can be the only factor. Broadcom chips are going to be pretty much the lowest cost ones because of their scale. It's more likely that they are dreaming up some network architecture that isn't served well by existing solutions.

By lowest cost I didn't mean the actual cost of the chips but the cost of the whole architecture. As you point out, the best solution might require chips that can't be found off the shelf.

I guess the metric they're trying to optimize is cost/performance/watt or something like that.

Unfortunately, the only public information I recall seeing was the use of a quad Cortex-A15 based SOC with integrated dual 10G in a NAS box.

However, the real capabilities of the product line were far more interesting, with very cool demos up and running with awesome metrics. The server possibilities are huge... especially if you provide opaque optimized services in a cloud to user workloads running on the x86 side.

I was coming here to say this but can't talk more due to NDA.

However, I would say look at the capabilities as listed for Synology DS2015x and extropolate. I, for one, kind of wish that Annapurna remained independent for other uses outside of AWS.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8777/synologys-ds2015xs-brings...

"The SoC at the heart of the DS2015xs is the AL-514 from Annapurna Labs, an Israeli startup that is still in stealth mode. The company has declined to speak to the media as of now. However, tracing some coverage of Israeli VC firms reveals that Annapurna Labs was founded in 2011 with the intent of bringing ARM-based communication processors to the market. Datasheets of SoCs from Annapurna Labs are not currently available to the public, but Synology was kind enough to divulge the following details (which, I suspect, can be gleaned via SSH access to the DS2015xs):

The AL-514 has four ARM Cortex-A15 cores running at 1.7 GHz The Cortex-A15 cores are configured with LPAE (large physical address extension) that allows addressing of more than 4 GB of RAM (the DS2015xs supports up to 8 GB) The SoC has two 10G Ethernet MAC IPs integrated"

Nothing here that can't be found in recent releases from Cavium, Broadcom and AMD.

That's why the NDA is so frustrating; we can't talk re the fun features and demos.. I know the AMD and Cavium parts rather well also. The Amd one doesn't support what I have in mind. The Cavium does on paper but the cores, even with just public info, can be seen to be underwhelming. Typical network processor style, which struggles with other workloads. Unfortunately for them, they picked up a couple of the less clued in Calxeda execs that don't understand SW or workloads very well.

With the number of servers Amazon has powering AWS, etc. maybe it's worth their while to buy a chipmaker and design custom chips to keep things going? I have no idea why Amazon would need a chipmaker otherwise.

You mean besides their e-reader, tablet, phone, media device, and whatever-the-hell-the-Echo-is product lines?

In general, CPUs are definitely not the problem with those devices.... it's the terrible software and tiny app store.

If they're trying to lower the cost by cutting out various middlemen, it still helps. I'll buy a Kindle Fire 7" if they can get them down to $50, yet have the same or better feature set.

There is no way that the processor costs ~50% of the retail price and that they would be able to lower costs by designing their own chip (the acquisition alone, plus chip design and manufacture could easily run into the billions of dollars).

It doesn't, the glass and battery is the majority of the cost. But Amazon is thinking long term here, so who knows what their next purchase will be.

Jeff wants to be Steve.

It could also be for the Fire Router and Fire NAS.

Speculation about future products aside, Amazon already has custom designed routers manufactured for them to run AWS. They already have Intel selling them custom CPU variants that aren't sold on the open market.

If you mean they have signed contract to not sell CPU on the open market, that's interesting.

Presumably that means a built-to-order SoC that is mostly Intel parts with some Amazon special ingredients. I believe Sony & Microsoft have similar deals with the chips in their game consoles.

Amazon (and Oracle) just has a different bin of the existing Haswell die; it's not really comparable to the gaming SoCs IMO.

Intel's done custom packaging, though, like the first-generation MacBook Air getting a smaller BGA package that wasn't available to other OEMs until the next generation processor.

This is correct. The consoles tend toward AMD APUs, though (at least in recent/current generations).

My understanding is that it's pretty much the same as a chip you could buy on your own, but soldered directly to the board and custom clocking/voltage.

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