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Comment by k-mcgrady | Hacker News Reader

>> "There is no way for me to immediately send $100 to anyone in the US without resorting to BTC or wire-transfers."

Not sure specifically what you mean by wire transfers but in the UK I can open my banks app (or websites), enter the sort code and account number of a person and instantly transfer them money from my account for no charge. Is this not possible in the US?

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Here in Sweden we've something called Moible Id and Bank-ID.

You register your mobile phone number on bank website (all Swedish banks offer this service) & download your security certificate on your cell phone or computer.

And from now on you can not only send money to any other mobile phone (via Swish [1]) but you can use your Mobile-ID/Bank-ID to login to every Govt/Private website/app.

Almost every company offers login via Mobile/Bank-ID. Guess what? I can sign off my taxes, parental leaves, sick leaves and whatnot just using the same MobileID. I don't create any logins/password on any Swedish websites at all. Transferring money isn't any exception.

[1] https://www.getswish.se/

What's the situation with cyber-crime? Is it a bigger problem than in rest of the world?

I highly doubt it, "identity theft" is pretty much unheard of, because we're not tied to secret identifiers like the US SSN, and because it is more centralized.

(I was very surprised when I moved to the US and realized that changing your address here means going to every single government agency and business you have a relationship with, and independently changing your address with them, instead of just doing it once in the central registry. I also found out that apparently you can't change your name on your driver's license if you have unpaid parking tickets. This is hilarious and unfathomable to me)

But you're tied to Bank-Id/Mobile-Id. If you lose your phone (or it's stolen) with all your certificates etc, will someone be able to do bad things with your account?

So the mobile bank-id is one way that you can use to identify yourself to various bank and government websites, most places still have multiple ways to sign on.

The mobile bank-id is still passcode-protected. The way it works is that whenever I want to sign on to one of these sites, I just enter my public personal id number. The app will then wake up, tell me that someone wants to identify as me on site X, and to enter my passcode if that's correct. If you steal my phone and don't have my passcodes, you can't do that. And I can revoke existing certificates if my phone gets stolen so they don't work even if you know my passcode.

I'm from Australia (where we have what you describe in the UK) and was shocked when I came to the US and Canada that they don't have such a thing. It's like going backwards in time 10 years.

Here in Canada the way to do it is an "email money transfer" where you put in someone's email address, and they get an email with a link they have to click then put in their online banking username/password in the page it takes them to. It's nasty, though it does work.

There is also the scenario where someone may not be able to open a bank account due to an extremely bad credit history, or not being able to meet minimum balance requirements (or have to incur relatively heavy 'service fees' to maintain an account with a low balance). The current mainstream alternative is money transfer services that charge a hefty percentage for transfers.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/12/pf/fdic-bank-accounts/

>> "There is also the scenario where someone may not be able to open a bank account due to an extremely bad credit history, or not being able to meet minimum balance requirements (or have to incur relatively heavy 'service fees' to maintain an account with a low balance)."

Might be another cultural difference. In the UK I can open a bank regardless of credit, there is no minimum balance or service fees unless I go negative into an un-arranged overdraft.

The GP was referring to the UK, where even someone with 'an extremely bad credit history' can get a bank account: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/basic-bank-accounts

Speaking from experience, it can get so bad you can't even open one of them. You also can't open one if you don't have a fixed address, AFAIK.

Most banks in Europe can't refuse to open a basic account by law. They aren't obliges to offer any credit (or even debit) services, but a basic bank account is supplied (in some cases, only way to get money from/to the government is to use a bank transfer)

To extend on that, having a bank account as a citizen is mandatory in France (and as such banks cannot stop you from opening one, although they don't have to provide any other services)

Domestic wires in the U.S. (the only actually immediate form of money transfer besides cash or Western Union) typically carries a fee between $25 and $50 per transaction.

BTC is not immediate either, it takes several days to cash out through an exchange because it will ultimately be settled with you through ACH.

Correct. There is a 2-3 day delay.

Interesting. That used to be the case here but it changed 4-5 years ago. I think there was a law brought in in Europe to require it. It may be related to this[0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

SEPA payments (for countries that are part of the Euro) should take no more than 24 hours (weekends/local holidays not withstanding). For other currencies, it can take up to 3 work days. (assuming all the transfer details are correct and requires no manual operation)

Interesting. I'm able to make instant transfers within the UK (also on weekends) and I believe throughout Europe. There is still the issue of other currencies but I believe the original discussion was about sending money to other people within the same country (the US) so our system surpasses the criteria as it works between around 30 different countries.

In Portugal, between same bank takes a few seconds, between different banks, usually next day (sometimes same day, but not common from what I have seen). I just sent some money to Germany and took a day to arrive in their bank account. On the other hand, I received a bank transfer today from the USA which was issued on Tuesday (2 work days, which is not bad)

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