Feeling Sad Makes Us More Creative | Hacker News Reader

Feeling Sad Makes Us More Creative

wired.com

111 pointsnether53 comments

Considering the byline on this wired article, I'd be cautious about ascribing any accuracy to it. This is pre-scandal lehrer. I have no idea how much review Wired has done of his previous work for them, but it's very much a reader-beware situation.

Lehrer was mostly knocked for plagiarism (including self-plagiarism), rather than fabrication, if I recall correctly. Wired pledged to review his works for them and add editorial notes where appropriate. A longer Lehrer article with similar themes (referenced by the Wired piece) remains up at the NYTimes without significant corrections. So, this is probably as reliable as average Wired/NYTimes content.

This reminds me of one my favorite analogies in literature, from Kierkegaard's Either/Or:

“What is a poet? An unhappy person who conceals profound anguish in his heart but whose lips are so formed that as sighs and cries pass over them they sound like beautiful music. It is with him as with the poor wretches in Phalaris's bronze bull, who were slowly tortured over a slow fire; their screams could not reach the tyrant's ears to terrify him; to him they sounded like sweet music.”

Phalaris's bronze bull is a Brazen Bull: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull

Tortured artist.

In my own experience this is very true.

I have a penchant for poetry and writing but I only face the page in times of turmoil.

The distinction between heartbroken me and happy me in terms of power through the pen is staggering.

I have at times even considered self sabotage in order to align these necessary forces and generate a period of productivity in writing.

I have a beautiful wife and beautiful children and I could never do it but still I have found myself considering it.

Such is the power of this effect in my own personal case.

Research over the last decade has shown that feeling creative is empowered by the intensity of emotion, not necessarily whether the emotion is a negative one or positive one. What matters most is being in an "active mood."

The research indicates that our content-like moods are not very motivating for states of original thought. That's not to say you can't have a great idea by being perfectly content, only that you're more inclined to experience creative-like thinking in a state of one polar end of the mood spectrum or the other.

Negative moods can be motivating and help focus on what's in front of us rather than pre-existing assumptions. Positive moods can leave us feeling open to new possibilities, leading to an increase in divergent thinking and making unusual associations as a result.

For those interested, I've written about this before with more detail here: http://creativesomething.net/post/76220500752/whats-the-best...

I already posted this, but it was relevant to you so I repeat:

Manic depressive people have also been observed before to perform more variably between-and-within subject (on a puzzle-game with more than one solution) during their depressed state, while performing more stereotypically during their manic states.

Another variation of the study looked at how manic depressive people who report low sensitivity or intensity to their own feelings would not experience the same patterns in behavioral variability during their manic and depressive swings (this is just an enriching complication, not something that directly responds to you).

Frustration in rats and humans alike produce variable behavior, whereas satisfaction produces stereotypical behavior. Why is this interesting? Because stereotypy is the enemy of learning and innovation, while being the friend to optimizers, while variability is a friend to learning and innovation, but an enemy to optimization. If you are often doing the same things, you experience an opportunity cost in which you could've been NOT doing the same thing.

That's not to say that if you do the same thing, then you are optimal, or that if you change up your behavior, then you are creative. Creativity is a mere possibility to change and newness.

Thanks for repeating for me, this is fascinating. Do you have a link to the source information for this?

Hmm... I could give you a link to a Google Drive folder full of articles on factors to behavioral variability and stereotypy.

But you'd have to do the digging yourself, or find an authoritative review article that summarizes current state of research (much better), as I'm a bit lazy.

I understand the internet has this culture of expecting someone who makes a claim to have the burden of proof to present citations, but honestly, it's too much work, and not even scientists do this. Instead, they have unpaid laborers do it for them for free.

It would be redundant of me to rehash my thoughts on this, so I'll simply link my reply to this same assertion in the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8916129

To summarize: bullshit. Depression and 'feeling sad' were what kept me from accomplishing anything of merit for over a decade.

There is a different between feeling sad and depression. Equating the two is a problem. You're absolutely right that depression is paralyzing. You are absolutely wrong that feeling sad is the same as being depressed.

I don't know if there's any real connection between feeling down and being creative, but the thought had occurred to me. Friends and I have joked (joked!) that Trent Reznor should get back on heroin and resume making the kind of music he did back when he seemed miserable. And feeling down tends to make me want to sit and play guitar.

I definitely use my guitar as therapy, too.

I think there are a few different kinds of creativity. (And there are a few different kinds of feeling down, and a few different kinds of happy, and we seriously can't conflate all of them together.)

My favorite creativity is when I'm well-rested, have been exercising, am clear-headed and have been in a few different environments. I see things that others miss, and I come up with sharp, clever, fun ideas. Creativity-as-play.

But there's also the kind of angry, frustrated creativity that happens out of limitations and pain. The kind Neil Gaiman was talking about in his talk "Make Good Art". Creativity-as-coping-mechanism.

I think it's kinda like, freedom-from and freedom-to. There's a playful kind of creativity (I enjoy), and a desperate kind of creativity (which I respect, but would prefer not to have to use).

I prefer the way he is now. His soundtrack work is very good.

Yes, he's an artist I've enjoyed watching change and sort of growing up and older with. I still very much enjoy his old work, but I also really enjoy the things he does now.

> Angst has creative perks.

I've experienced this myself, although not out of depression or sadness, but fear and anxiety. For instance, writing an entire paper for class the night before it's due, and somehow pulling off a good grade. I've always just told myself that I'm not creative until I have to be.

Feeling well and bad are not opposites on one scale, but rather different brain-function.

Bad feelings are often actually anxiety or fear, which lead to a broadening of attention: perceiving many different things, but none of them clearly. Exactly what is needed to get away from a situation. This is where the creativity might come from.

Please note that this broadening of attention doesn't mean you can think clear, which is the problem with depression: having thousands of dysfunctional thoughts rotating, without being able to focus on one of them properly. (until the brain just shuts down with exhaustion).

Feeling well, on the other hand, often incorporates feeling in-the-zone, being focussed on something, without seeing all the parts around it.

http://nautil.us/blog/how-meaning-withdrawal-aka-boredom-can...

http://nautil.us/issue/20/creativity/to-be-more-creative-che...

Clearly everything boosts creativity

to me, any real creative accomplishments require considerable sustained effort. generally, feeling shitty saps energy, so id say it puts the skids on getting big things finished. however, necessity is the mother of invention, and people will do anything to feel better- often artistic and creative acts can give someone something tangible that they can control (to some degree). then you get addicted by the progress and it becomes self sustaining. so in that sense, the negative emotions can be a source of inspiration. from my own experience, the moments of particularly creative inspiration are always a product of effort, or at the very least highly correlated. since effort can be summoned from both negative and positive emotions, i think its hard to say that one side is more powerful.

This might not be directly related to what is described in the article but I'm pretty sure that great things come out of desperation. Sometimes you really have to hit the bottom in your life and feel miserable to realize that you actually have to do something or try harder.

The best thing about getting out of a difficult situation is that once you managed to do so, you definitely don't want to go back since you experienced it first hand and know how much it sucks. :)

This isn't new

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness

I found I did my best photography after breaking up with my girlfriend, the death of a loved one... the intensity of feeling in those photos is unmatched.

Now, I hardly take any photos. Life is much more pleasant, even happy, and the photos I take are empty of any emotion. I'm glad for life to be so great, but sometimes wish for the unhappiness, for the astounding creativity it provided.

I found that the "creativity" from sadness is mostly pseudo intellectual thoughts. The kind of thoughts that are pretty meaningless. Example: "Life has the name of life, but in reality it is death." This thought makes the one who made it up feel smarter, and so maybe a little happier, but in reality it has no actual meaning or purpose other than make people feel good about themselves.

Couldn't agree more. Tend to find i'm most productive when i'm miserable. Just as enthusiasm for a project can lead to great things, the motivation to get yourself out of a bad mood can work equally well - but I wouldn't recommend secluding yourself in the hope that you'll suddenly become a talented writer/philosopher/scientist!

Being creative sounds pretty miserable, one article on front page says boredom boosts it while the other claims sadness does...

...while another one says you must cheer up:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8912699

Pretty confusing, isn't it?

In my experience, I have more ideas when happy and already having a couple in the back of my mind.

Explains why no one can makes a second hit :)

As someone's who's feeling sad (and remorse) right now, I am not feeling any creative juices.

Feeling sad can sometimes make some people more inspired. But then again so can everything else.

Creativity, inspiration and quality of art are not quantifiable. This is pseudo science backed by anecdotal evidence wrapped in an emotional swaddling blanket.

"Happiness writes white" has always been one of my favorite cliches.

Happiness is a state you should pass through, not rest in.

Correlation does not imply causation, however. There could be a more complex relationship between the two than direct causality.

I find that a pathological lack of any emotion or sentiment is key to creativity and productivity. Tabula Rasa is my mantra.

It ain't like feeling sad or cheering up, rather more spending time with one own-self makes it happen.

Two titles on the front page. One says cheer up to be more creative and the other says feel sad. Interesting

I've been doing a lot of research on creativity lately and the consensus seems to be that any strong emotion can make a person feel more creative. Joy or depression, love or hate. It seems contradictory and people prefer clear messages, which is why I'd imagine that the authors of the respective pieces decided to present only one side or the other.

It makes sense to me at least. People are most creative when they are out of their comfort zone and seeing the world from a slightly different perspective. Whether that's being unusually happy or unusually sad, any emotional condition that changes point of view can lead to ideas that wouldn't normally occur.

When I'm sad or depressed, I feel "stuck". All my side projects, all my fun hobbies, everything I normally get excited about goes on hold. Heck, I can't even function properly at my job. The feeling grips me and causes a dull headache. I feel alone and I can't shake it. Normally, I can be alone and pursue all my fun passion projects. Or be able to learn. Or perform my job like a man on drugs.

When sad, though. I'm a zombie. Nothing inspires creativity, nothing makes me excited. When I feel like that, I'm definitely not in my comfort zone. If you want help with your research, PM me and I'll be happy to share my experience with you.

"Strong emotions cause creativity" isn't the least bit contradictory... is it?

Fark does that all the time, they'll have consecutive "X happened, stocks will go up" and "X happened, stocks will go down" headlines. It's not a bad way to highlight that the experts-of-the-day are divided, actually.

They're not mutually contradictory; perhaps feeling strong emotions, in general, gets people more creative?

Yeah. If you want to do things differently, you have to see things differently, and/or you have to want different things. And different emotional states achieve that. Or drugs. Or travel. Or anything, really, apart from "the same thing that happened yesterday". (Which is most people's default.)

The titles aren't, but the actual articles are, as the other one said that being happy makes you creative, while being sad makes you less creative but more focused.

On the other hand, this article seems to agree with the focused part, so I think the difference is probably how they defined creativity, as in this one they asked artists to do it while in the other article I believe they looked at brain patterns.

There's one recommending boredom now too.

This is becoming the Cosmos magazine of geeky people.

As the top few comments on the other submission note, that "cheer" headline isn't really supported by the article.

Could mean that we can regress out one's mood, they are unrelated variables. Your mood doesn't drive creativity.

Three! Don't forget boredom. Does feeling faintly amused also boost creativity?

For those from the future wondering we're referring to: http://i.imgur.com/WZXjPDo.png

I believe there was also a "boredom aids in creativity" article on here today. Which would coincide with sadness, as boredom and depression sometimes go hand in hand.

"To be more creative, stop reading totally unscientific articles about how to be more creative, and start doing stuff."

In other news: (same HN page)

To Be More Creative, Cheer Up (nautil.us) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8912699

HN, make up your mind.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com