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Comment by TeMPOraL | Hacker News Reader

> Also, it's pretty obvious terrorism is an excuse.

Terrorism is indeed very real, and is happening all the time. Hundreds of acts of terror have been committed in the years since 9/11, resulting in deaths of thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children. They those acts have pretty much 0 media coverage, and no one is doing anything to stop them. The US is free to keep on terrorizing civilian populations around the globe.

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drone...

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It's real but even Hayden openly said that it wasn't the main reason for surveillance.

[Edit: I misread your comment]

They're deaths nonetheless. In case my previous comment wasn't clear, let me say it directly - the USGOV is terrorizing the world and then uses fear of retaliation to push for more domestic security measures.

And the US has killed tens of thousands of civilians in the middle east.

They're terrorists too.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he is alluding to, judging by the link.

Who do you think is going to stop them? The US can do what ever they want because Europe permanently has its head up its ass.

I don't know. The EU seems to be more concerned about not falling apart right now. But then again, I was hoping the people of US would notice and maybe tell their government that they don't want to be citizens of the biggest terrorist state on the planet?

I am sure ISIS and al Qaeda feel they are being terrorized and Americans fully support these operations. Pakistan and Yemen help with these missions because they want them eradicated. Europeans criticize while not realizing these operation are run in large part from Europe. As long as the governments of Europe do what the U.S. says the opinion of their citizens can be ignored.

You totally ignore all the deaths of civilians caused by the US military and other actions.

Drones, contrary to popular belief, reduce civilian casualties.

Redefining 'civilian' also reduces civilian casualties.

"It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent."

I don't imagine anyone cares to do the posthumous intelligence checks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in...

"Terrorist guilty until proven otherwise" horrifying stuff!

Only during 2003-2006 US war period in Iraq there were some 600000 Iraqis killed, most of them civilians:

http://leksikon.org/images/iraq_lancet2.pdf

There was no al Qaeda in Iraq before US attacked it:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/still-clueless-about-al-...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/15/bush-acknowledges-a...

This comment is counterproductive, because it implies Europe (or more specifically the EU) has no agency.

The fact is that the EU wants to apply even more crazy gov't surveillance tactics, and don't need the US pushing it. By saying this, you're giving them an "out" ('oh, big bad Uncle Sam basically forced us to play along!').

Yes, this is how things work. Europeans blame the U.S. and let their own governments off the hook thereby guaranteeing US dominance.

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