Comment by japhyr | Hacker News Reader

Comment by japhyr | Hacker News Reader

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I wonder if the cultural shifts - the pivotal moments in history - were more significant between 1955-1985, than 1985-2015.

Between 1955-1985 we had the civil rights movement, the moon landing, the Vietnam War, and the final decades of the Cold War. Between 1985-2015 we've had the fall of the Soviet Union and the Berlin Wall, the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan, and 9/11. I'm obviously missing some other significant events.

We also had technological shifts - 1955-1985 saw records -> tapes, but CDs and PCs were not quite massively adopted yet. 1985-2015 has seen CDs -> flash storage, mass adoption of PCs -> laptops -> smartphones, and social media apps. Much of the advances in technology have connected us geographically and temporally.

I feel like the significant events between 1955-1985 separated the youth of the 80's from the youth of the 50's, more than the significant events from 1985-2015 have. I also feel that many changes between 1985-2015 actually connected today's youth to people and events of the last 30 years.

Don't forget BTTF is complete with generic middle eastern terrorists, something still relevant today but absolutely unheard of in 1955.

I would say the cultural and technological shifts between 55 and 85 were far bigger.

In 55 space travel was in its infancy, segregation still existed, jet planes were in their infancy, computers were in their infancy. The impact of consumer technology was really the family TV and the car.

In a lot of ways today is just a evolutionary version of 1985, whereas 1985 was mich more of a revolution from 1955.

I think the time is right for another sequel - jumping forward to 2045.

Except BTTF doesn't mention gays or trans people. If it did, you'd see a lot more of the major cultural shifts, especially surrounding trans rights and trans acceptance.

It also doesn't focus as much on television, except to the extent that people in 1955 apparently didn't know what a "rerun" was. (Did they in reality? Honestly don't know.) The other side to that is, back in 1985, if you wanted to see an old episode of I Love Lucy or Gunsmoke (which had actually gone off the air by then, I believe) you either caught the rerun of the one episode some network was broadcasting or you were SOL. I'm not sure anyone was even selling video tapes of episodes back then, even assuming you were one of the comparatively few people to have a VHS or Beta player. Your cultural library for recent-ish pop culture was about a millimeter deep, compared to now.

So, yes, 1985 is closer to 2015 than 1955 was to 1985 in some key ways. Some of that is because you can only repeal Jim Crow laws once. Some of that is because Netflix has Punky Brewster on demand. Some of that is because most people are neither gay nor trans.

>Except BTTF doesn't mention gays or trans people. If it did, you'd see a lot more of the major cultural shifts, especially surrounding trans rights and trans acceptance.

Well, rights or no rights, they are still a quite small minority -- say 10% of the population for both. And that's the big number -- because the more relevant for a movie number, that of "trans people" + "gay people that you can tell from straight people" (e.g. with clear stylistic choices in clothes etc) is much much smaller.

So, unless the script calls for it, they'd only show one in a movie with like 5-10 people in the whole cast if they want to go out of their way to include the "token gay guy".

> except to the extent that people in 1955 apparently didn't know what a "rerun" was.

I believe they did not: teevee was broadcast live, and mostly not recorded. IIRC.

> I wonder if the cultural shifts - the pivotal moments in history - were more significant between 1955-1985, than 1985-2015.

That might be part of it, but I think a lot of it is just that the Baby Boomers are the worst generation in history, while today's younger folks are…just younger folks.

> I think a lot of it is just that the Baby Boomers are the worst generation in history

Why do you think so?

I don't think they were the worst generation. My parents were baby boomers, and I guess I am too. A lot of Boomers grew up feeling like there was a good chance they would die, and not by natural causes. As a child I used to think what's the point to it all if Russia fires those missiles. My father used to worry about the Vietnam draft. I know both my parents tried to rebel against the strict conformist values of the 50's. Even though they didn't have access to the Internet--they did care about the environment. As to money; they knew after the hippie phase they needed it. I don't know if they will pass that money on to good causes, anymore than rich millennials? I do know this--my parents and their frends were honest, and kept their word. A handshake was substituted instead of a Lawyer when I was growing up. Neighbors would never consider suing their neighbor. They might puch said neighbr on nose after a few drinks though? So no, they weren't perfect, but they wern't the worst generation either.

I think economically the Boomers were a disaster (cashing checks that future generations now must cover).

Socially and culturally however I think they achieved many great things we take for granted (birth control access, environmentalism, civil rights advances, multiculturalism, the sexual revolution, etc).

I think this idea that the Boomers were somehow special or more damaging that newer generations is BS.

One major cultural shift -- I had my first part time office job in 85/86 (was 15/16 at the time), and remember being extremely agitated about people smoking at the desks next to me. Now you can't even smoke in a bar in most places.

Technologically 1985-2015 seems a lot less than 55-85, video games are video games, digital networking is still digital networking, in different clothing but still. Especially if you watch Alan Kay talks showing how things in the 60s and 70s are still relevant .

I'm not sure I buy that. Maybe from a technology underpinnings perspective, but from the perspective of the mainstream consumer, things changed radically from ~1985 to the present (give or take a few years).

PCs weren't really mainstream in 1985 (though C64s and the like were relatively common)

Hardly any consumer PC could connect to the pre-WWW Internet. And I'm not sure a lot connected to online services in general. (As I recall, a service like CIS had hefty per-minute charges at the time.)

So relatively few consumers had email or any way to get information online.

VCRs existed but I'm not sure how widespread they were; I know I didn't have one until the late 80s so there was relatively little timeshifting. Cable TV was fairly widespread though.

Few had mobile phones and air charges would have been significant. Answering machines were readily available but I don't know what the penetration was.

Anyway, my basic point is that the mainstream consumer would find the pre-eighties and the post-eighties to be enormously different world from a technology perspective, especially with respect to communications. I frequently think if I were to go back to my job in 1986, I'd throw up my hands in horror at my inability to do my work--given the difficulty of getting information and generally communicating (though we did have internal email).

It might be the names:

A C64 was a PC (sensu latu) and the latest Dell/Compaq octo-core gaming rig is a PC, so same-same. Name hasn't changed, so the massive technical advance is hidden.

The BBS networks were networks and the Internet is a network, so they're the same. Never mind the fact BBS networks were lucky to get email across the country in a few days whereas Internet users can chat real-time with full voice and video around the world.

Cell phones existed in 1985. Cell phones exist now. Guess which devices can access global databases in a fraction of a second and which devices were bags which had handsets wired to them so people could make and receive phone calls from their cars!! Again, though, the name remains the same.

People in 1985 had cheap cameras. People in 2015 have... cell phones.

People in 1985 had little black books with phone numbers in them. People in 2015 have... cell phones.

People in 1985 had really nifty digital watches. People in 2015 have... cell phones.

(Really, though, the fact cell phones have kept the same name is pretty amazing, given how radically the devices themselves have changed.)

> People in 1985 had really nifty digital watches. People in 2015 have... cell phones.

...synced to really nifty digital watches.

My friend had a Casio watch that could control his VCR. To this day no wearable can control his VCR.

Maybe not his specific VCR, but I found out that Roku has a remote control app (controls it over wifi).

But you just gave me a great product idea. Wifi accessible infra red remote controls that you'd mount in various rooms in the house that contain IR-remote controlled objects (TVs, ceiling fans, etc) along with an app to control them from your handheld.

The Pebble watch can control Plex, VLC, XBMC and the WDTV over WiFi:

https://github.com/Skipstone/Skipstone

Cost makes all the difference. In the 1980's, a long-distance phone call was still a big expense. Being in a big city like New York gave you substantially more access to information than being in the rural USA. Knowledge of skills and techniques were siloed within big firms and academia, and sourcing goods would require the discovery of either local retail, or a phone or mail-order service. It's astounding that anything got done with such high costs of doing business.

Now we think nothing of calling somewhere, as long as somewhere is "within civilization" - even if it's a materially poor, remote area. It's easy to find goods online, even relatively obscure ones. And if we have a question about a specialized field, we can usually find some online source that can point us in the right direction.

What we haven't really done yet is reorganize the economy to make good use of all these new efficiencies. We still manufacture and market as before, just using some additional channels.

There were some big cultural changes, vastly increased acceptance of homosexuality and trangenderism, much less acceptance of sexism, especially in professional contexts.

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