Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code | Hacker News Reader

Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code

nick.co.uk

34 pointsABNWZ21 comments

That's cool. Looks like it's using Flambe as well. [0]

Myself and a friend worked for Nick a few years back helping build out some of the HTML5 game concepts. We prototyped different games using various engines (PlayN, etc) and ended up along with some other contractors on Haxe-based Flambe as the best choice for HTML5. We actually launched a couple of games [1][2], though a lot of our work ended up internal-only.

When we started, the iPad 1 was still considered a current browser. The performance on that device was abysmal. When the iPad 2 and newer versions of iOS came around, we finally had access to accelerated <canvas> and could really start making things work.

The other things we prototyped for Nick were in-game video and multiplayer gaming. The in-game video was pretty bad for cross-browser support. In the end, Flambe gave us a tool (Flump) that had the ability to import from Flash animations that was significantly better than trying to force iPads and Android devices to play video reliably and consistently.

Multiplayer support was the least painful new ground we worked on -- using engine.io and Redis on the backend we were able to scale to tens of thousands of simultaneous users without spending too much on EC2. For the most part it "just worked".

If there's one lesson I learned from this experience, it's that developing games for existing properties is tough work. There are so many stakeholders that things take forever to get done. Considering the value of the properties, this isn't surprising.

The second lesson would be that HTML5 is moving so fast that you'll probably have to rebuild your games every few months to support all of the changes that are happening in the space. Most of the games we launched a little more than a year ago are already starting to bitrot.

[0] https://github.com/aduros/flambe

[1] http://www.nick.com/games/spongebob-squarepants-spongebob-sq...

[2] http://www.nick.com/games/data/korra/korra-pai-sho/

[3] http://www.nick.com/games/kca-2013-multiplayer-trivia.html (no longer there -- probably our most polished release)

I really don't understand why it's so critically important we teach our children how to write the next generation of photosharing apps for cats, to the point that we're urging them to do it in all forms of mass media and culture. I can understand trying to get children interested in STEM fields in general, but why does our society direly need mass quantities of programmers in particular? Executives like to talk of "shortages" when they have to pay their workers more than they like, but in reality this meme, and it is a meme, makes no sense whatsoever.

Technical literacy is not a meme, it's a skill that becomes more essential as technology further permeates society and its jobs.

The goal isn't to make everyone want to become a programmer as a career, but for more careers to better integrate modern technology.

But programming isn't necessarily synonymous with technology, it's only one relatively minor subset.

Hence the confusion about why we're encouraging interest in programming rather than an overall interest in STEM fields.

A lawyer can't apply chemistry skills every day. They can apply computing skills, including basic programming to automate some tasks. This is true in almost every profession. Architects write AutoCAD Lisp, and graphic designers write Photoshop scripts. Basic programming is as essential as math for a productive workforce.

Even in other STEM fields, programming is very helpful. It's very common for physicists to write programs to analyze their own data. Physics as a field is ahead of the curve here, but economics, chemistry, and all the engineering fields are catching up.

> programming isn't necessarily synonymous with technology

Programming is the applied knowledge of technology. Everything else is just learning - and being restricted to - someone else's idea of how you're supposed to operate that technology.

> Programming is the applied knowledge of technology. Everything else is just learning - and being restricted to - someone else's idea of how you're supposed to operate that technology.

All of engineering that isn't programming disagrees with you, for starters.

Programming is one kind of application of knowledge of one specific area of technology. But so are lots of other things.

>Everything else is just learning - and being restricted to - someone else's idea of how you're supposed to operate that technology.

So programmers aren't restricted to Computer Engineer's ideas of how to operate technology?

Schools (at least in the UK) already teach chemistry, physics , biology and some electronics / woodwork. Why not add some CS/programming to that?

We definitely should. But simpler integrating some programming into educational programs could be a much quieter and humbler endeavor than the current "learn to code" hype. The hype may be because we should have started doing it a long time ago, so we're playing catch-up, or it could be because a lot of people with a lot of money have an interest in seeing the industry commoditized, or it could just be that the people involved think this stuff is really cool and are just really excited about it. I think it's a combination of all of that and probably some other things as well.

The underlying principle behind teaching (except for higher eduction) is not to make productive workers but knowledgeable and discerning citizens.

The number of programmers we need is not relevant here: they may not need to know how to write complex programs, but knowing the basic principles of programming will make them more able in a worlds relying heavily on computers. This is already the reason why we teach basic math, physics, biology, history, geography, English, etc. to kids.

Basic programming literacy would help people in a number of different fields be more productive. I, for one, am getting sick of writing SQL for the marketing folks at my company.

Geraldine Laybourne, who built/ran Nickelodeon for 15+ years, recently joined BetaWorks' board [1]. She also started Kandu, which is an iPad app that helps students learn to make games [2].

Not sure if there's a direction connection to the Nick.co.uk efforts, but definitely interesting.

[1] http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/05/media-queen-gerry-laybourne... [2] http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/18/kandu-is-an-ipad-app-that-t...

Shouldn't there be more of a narrative to this?

What is the goal? I could see kids clicking on stuff for a few minutes, lose interest and close it.

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That's already the goal of children's television programming. Shows like Reading Rainbow, Sesame Street, and Mister Rogers' Neighborhood are prime examples.

If a narrative were introduced to this program as robmcm suggests it could even accomplish both goals, just as those television programs can teach both basic literacy and ethical values.

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The existence of hypothetical counter examples to ethical life lessons does not invalidate those lessons. Ethics aren't the means to an end, they are the practice of respecting people and treating them with dignity. Insofar as teaching ethics is even barely relevant to a discussion about teaching programming to children, the value of women beyond their physical attributes is even less so and suggests you're trying to shoehorn an agenda into the discussion.

The examples I gave are entirely relevant, regardless of whether new episodes are being produced or even re-run. They exemplify the purpose, and clearly and undeniably represent the goal of teaching kindness (and more) to children, regardless of the existence or even abundance of examples to the contrary.

There may be a lot of noise in that market, but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there already putting a great deal of effort into doing the right thing.

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I cannot agree with the idea that nobody is allowed to teach relevant life skills just because you think something else is more important. For one, not everyone is qualified to teach the issues you find more important. For another, in a more ideal society such as the one you suggest, people are free to teach and learn what skills they like without having to justify it to everyone in the world who thinks they know better.

That color scheme hurts my life.

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