The Best Bike Lock | Hacker News Reader

The Best Bike Lock

thesweethome.com

58 pointspercept60 comments

Interestingly the lock they recommend seems to have some pretty bad reviews on Amazon, with diagrams showing how the thieves defeated it: http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Kryptolok-Standard-Bicycle-...

That twisted lock picture can only be done if the bike is improperly locked or the thief was willing to destroy part of the bike while stealing it. (Or it was an unusually talented thief.)

If you have your frame, at least one wheel and a secure post (preferably 3" thick) going through your lock leverage attacks become very difficult.

Hmmm.. I don't buy bikes anymore.

Bought two in Tel Aviv (after the one I brought from DE was stolen...). The first one was stolen, secured with a 'secure' Kryptonite U-Lock in my backyard. Brought the second back to Germany, after carrying it into my 2nd story flat in TLV every single day and only using it during the day, keeping it in sight.

Stored it in the (shared between 6 tenants) private garage/car park back in Germany, locked with a U-Lock from Kryptonite. Gone one day.

Got a (crap!) bike as a present from my parents. Kept it in the (2 party, single car) garage of my current plage, with a U-Lock from Kryptonite. Gone.

If you cannot/won't carry it in your apartment, don't bother. That's the lesson I learned at least. That also means that you cannot use a bike as a means of transportation if you want to go to a bar, watch a movie or something.

It's hyperbole, but I sometimes think that the 'Wild West' way of treating horse thieves could and should be adopted...

Or the kryptonite locks have some easy flaws.

I wouldn't know, but .. that brand is touted as the 'right answer' in the linked article and 'Get a U-Lock' is quoted a couple of times from the crooks they used to test the locks.

So, 'Kryptonite U-Lock' seems to be what they recommend and that is what I used. With consistently bad results.

Some of the early Kryptonite models were susceptible to the "Bic pen" attack....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LahDQ2ZQ3e0

No need for anything fancy like a hydraulis jack or liquid nitrogen.

Hm, I've been riding bikes as my main transportation for a while; so far none have been stolen (the most expensive bike I'm willing to lock up where I can't see it was about $700 new). I lock it up at restaurants, symphonies, etc. in areas ranging from downtown to residential, including some areas with high petty crime rates.

Maybe your location has an unusual amount of bike theft, or maybe you've just gotten unlucky. Or maybe I've gotten unusually lucky! But even if I expect to get one $700 bike stolen per year, I'm going to save a significant amount of money over maintaining/owning/fueling/insuring a car.

I will say that so far I've never locked up a bike overnight--bringing it into my apartment has always seemed like the normal thing to do.

Location: I didn't name all the places, but I'm talking about Tel Aviv, Cologne and Bochum in those cases - 'big' cities (TLV and Bochum aren't, really. Cologne crossed 1mil again I think). Given that I rule out the location or I just happen to hit bad locations, consistently.

Savings: That might make sense. For me each bike had a value beyond the money. I picked it, really liked it. I was in a rage each time I lost it. Plus, in Cologne and Bochum I'm issued a company car. No fuel, no maintenance, no .. bike. Sad, but easier. Similar to your argument: The cost of a bike is significant if the alternative is 'free'.

Apartment: Did that in TLV, as I stated. Afterwards I got kids. I don't have a "do not touch" area anymore, if we ignore a couple servers and gadgets. Storing a bike in my apartment isn't an option right now.

(I _loved_ my bike in TLV. Stayed for one year, rode to work every single day - I think there were max. 2 occasions where I used the bus for some reason. Now I'm certain that I cannot protect a bike, so I won't invest in one. Thieves completely destroyed my fun here.)

The only bike I've had stolen was a $600 hybrid that I bought when I first moved to Boston. I parked it in the same place every day the entire summer at a T station. Cops found shattered pieces from my U-lock and told me the thief used liquid nitrogen.

In Cambridge, liquid nitrogen cheaper than milk.

This is slightly off topic, but why aren't folding bikes or scooters more popular? Their folding mechanism allows you to take them with you which would presumably prevent theft more than a lock. If a bike lock is the only thing that's keeping your bike from being stolen it doesn't seem like it'll work more than it just delays the inevitable.

Plus aren't locks really inconvenient to carry around with you? 10+ pounds is a lot when your bike is only 20lbs.

I say this as a proud Brompton owner, but to most people they're just weird. They're also a bit more expensive, you get less bike for a given amount. They're not that light. I often lock mine up outside because I don't want to a haul a 26 lb block up a flight of stairs.

No lock weighs 10 lb (you can read the article), and 20 lb is a pretty light bike. 3 lb lock for a 25 lb bike is more realistic (my roommate's 56 cm aluminum road bike is 26 lb).

Even 3 lb vs 25 lb is the wrong comparison. Why does the weight of the bike matters? What matters is the total weight the rider has to move - which is something like 25 lb for the bike, 20 lb for a bag, and 200 lb for the rider themself. 3 lb is peanuts on that.

There are a lot of not-very-good-bikes -- usually refered to as "bike shaped objects". These cheap bikes make the good folding bikes seem expensive. (Is this like an "overton window"?)

A good folding bike is probably a great choice for many people.

A good folding bike, at best, is a decent bike. Folding bikes have smaller wheel diameters, lower frame stiffness, and larger relative weight.

and carrying your folded bike around with you when you aren't riding it is far less convenient than carrying a lock while you're riding the bike.

I ride a Brompton, and that is one of the big reasons; I can just take it inside, and stash it under my desk, rather than having to lock it up outside.

However, it is inconvenient in some situations. When I go to a bar, or restaurant, or movie theater, it's sometimes hard to find a place to put it that's out of the way. Since a lock is cumbersome and inconvenient, and I don't usually need it, that means I don't make a habit of carrying one, but then I'll hit a situation where it really would be more convenient to lock it up than take it in, but now I don't have that option.

That said, I do ride my Brompton as my daily commuter, and do bring it in with me, and most bars, restaurants, or the like do have enough room for me to stash it somewhere. But you do have to be willing to put up with people who think it's a little strange, or the people who joke "hey, I don't try to bring my car into the bar", and you do sometimes need to be creative to find a way to stash it securely and also out of people's way.

The only bike with a no-compromise fold is a Brompton. Bromptons can be stashed by your desk and are ideal for city riding, which is why they're such a common sight in London, Oxford and other UK cities.

But for other types of cycling they don't cut the mustard. I have a Bike Friday and my wife has an Airnimal, both of which are exemplary folders - the BF goes anywhere and the Airnimal goes road-bike fast. But neither of them has anything like the compact fold of a Brompton.

The best bike lock I ever had was a crappy bike. When I was in college, I did not have much money so I bought a used bike. It had a 3 speed Stermy Archer shifter that did not work right, you had to set it in just the right place or it would not work, the pedals will slip. I never locked it I just left the shifter in the wrong place. A couple of times I would notice my bike laying on the ground a few feet from where I left it, I always hoped that someone tried to steal it, the pedals slipped on them and they landed their crotch on the cross bar.

Sounds like your Sturmey Archer worked just fine. The most common older model had a position between normal and high gear where the driver was disengaged from the hub, and there were stories of crashses due to slipping out of gear while honking up a hill.

I have those old hubs on a couple of my bikes.

Quite agreed about getting a crappy bike. A bike can be quite ride-able yet still look crummy.

I had a similar townie bike in Toronto. You had to sit on the seat properly or it would flip up, and the cranks were bent, yielding an awful cadence. It was fine for the ~5 block area I used it in. I always said whoever would steal this bike would get what they deserve.

I also used to spray paint my bike with high visibility colours and do a very bad job of it. The high vis made you safer around cars, and the bad paint job made the bikes less resellable.

A friend of mine used a good U-lock and still had his bike stolen. The thief used a portable plasma cutter in broad daylight. This was in SF.

>This was in SF.

Sounds about right. A friend of mine had theirs stolen from their front yard, broad daylight, by some people with a van.

In fact, even top notch locks can not resist a seasoned lockpicker. Here the kryptonite new york lasts less than a minute : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYv4uq_eML8

I raced Cat 2 for many years with a carbon fiber Specialized Epic Allez with all Dura Ace & Campy C-record components back in the early 90's while going to university. The bike cost roughly $2,700 & I used it nearly every day to commute. Not once did I ever lock it up anywhere. When I'd get to class or wherever I was going I would remove both the wheels & lock them to the rack. This whole process took seconds for removal & assembly with the quick releases. I'd then cary the frame like a bag. At a bit over 14 pounds it wasn't an issue to just take it with me. At one point I even had a clip to attach it to my backpack. It sat quite nicely next to me at my desk, even in lecture halls & was never really a problem. Only once in four years did a university security guard ask me to take it outside and lock it up. I asked why and he said: "university policy doesn't allow bikes in the building." I responded that it wasn't a bike. It was a frame and would only be a bike when assembled with wheels which it wasn't when in the building. He of course thought I was being a smart ass and escalated the situation to a supervisor who told him to back off. I honestly had more run-ins with business owners who didn't like the fact I was wearing cleated shoes on their polished floors.

At the end of the day, I'd like to understand, I really would. Why do people lock bikes they care about on the street? Is it simply a function of not knowing how to use quick releases to pop the wheels off? Is it a space issue? I lived in some pretty tiny places but there was always wall space & toothpaste was always perfect for covering the holes for the bike wall rack when I moved out. Never once did I loose a security deposit.

you're telling me that you can't imagine any sort of situation where locking your bike would be necessary?

"Only once in four years did a university security guard ask me to take it outside and lock it up. I asked why and he said: "university policy doesn't allow bikes in the building." I responded that it wasn't a bike. It was a frame and would only be a bike when assembled with wheels which it wasn't when in the building."

wow.

Yes, pretty much, for a bike you care about that is. In my case it was key to my profession. I made money bike racing & being without my bike was simply not an option, so it was always with me or in my apartment. Yes, if you live in a dorm maybe my model would be an issue, but then again if you live in a dorm it might not be a good idea to have a bike you care about. And yeah, when I'd go to a nightclub or somewhere I couldn't take my bike I'd get a ride from someone and leave it in my apartment. The key here is that if you care about a bike that you don't want stolen, don't leave it somewhere to get stolen.

there exist people who don't race professionally who care about their bikes (but not to the same extent that you do)

> And yeah, when I'd go to a nightclub or somewhere I couldn't take my bike I'd get a ride from someone and leave it in my apartment.

There you have it. Your "I've never had to lock my bike up up outside" system is really "I can only cycle to places where I know I can take my bike inside". That doesn't sound like much of a way to live a life to me.

This is my take away as well.

Like your bike? Only ride it during the day, store it in your apartment next to your purse and credit card. Don't use it to meet with friends for a night out. Don't take it to get to the movies. Think hard if you plan to stroll through the city for an hour.

Ideally, you drive around in a circle, get back home and .. carry it N floors, storing it safely in your apartment again.

I really believe that this is the only way to keep a bike. Which is the reason why I don't keep a bike anymore. It's just not feasible to have (a decent) one.

I always get tenaciously grimey hands whenever I put my wheels on and off.

I was a freak about keeping my bike clean & always used wax instead of oil on the chain. Sometimes grime was unavoidable like when it was raining so I carried a moist towel in a ziplock bag in my backpack. I also had a chain clip on the rear stay so it wouldn't flop around and brush into things. When removing a wheel the key is to hold the spokes, not the tire and rim. Spokes should mostly always be clean with a bit of maintenance - they don't need oiled after all. On my set of Mavic wheels that was somewhat dangerous since they had oval spokes which were a bit sharp. I did cut myself on them a few times.

Your approach requires a large up-front investment, especially for a student. Lugging a heavy frame around isn't practical, and many would find it hard to justify $2,700 for a carbon-fibre bike; I struggled to scrape together £280 for a bike this Christmas (the cheapest aluminium one I found).

Whilst it's sensible to keep them indoors at home, that's no guarantee; I've had a bike stolen from inside my house.

My bikes seem to last ~1.5 years, so I chose new bike under that assumption. For your bike's $2,700 I can get ~6 of my current bike, or about 9 years worth.

I recommend buying second-hand bikes instead of cheap new ones. If you (or a friend) know a bit about bikes you easily get better quality for lower prices.

Thus the circle continues.

Because the whole used bike market is theft? Please, that's just an irresponsible assertion...

> It sat quite nicely next to me at my desk, even in lecture halls & was never really a problem.

How many people in a lecture hall? How many of them tKing their frames with them becomes a problem?

This is an impressive pain in the ass. I race too and the only lock its ever trusted behind is a deadbolt. I bought a very nice mid 80s road bike for my commuter because its about as light as an entry level race bike but looks like nothing special.

The last few "best bike lock" articles I've seen were frustrating; weird "unpickable" key systems[0], or integrating the lock into the bike frame so breaking the lock breaks the bike[1]. Gimmicks come and go and it's how we find new tech, but pragmatic real world tested results are what I want in systems I really don't want to fail.

This one's a good lock, but I've had one for 6 years and I'll buy another when it breaks so I'm biased.

[0] - http://gizmodo.com/heres-how-you-pick-the-unpickable-bike-lo... [1] - http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/08/22/342437221/com...

10 months old reddit thread http://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/1yozc4/bike_thiefs_opin...

I wonder what they think of a lock like this as secondary protection or as a replacement for the cable:

http://www.amazon.com/ABUS-Amparo-4850-Frame-Lock/dp/B001BAD...

It's permanently attached to rear fork and slides around to immobilize the rear wheel. Of course, you wouldn't want to use it alone - you'd want a U lock around the front wheel/frame/object as well.

This combo is what I was given for a city bike in europe, and it's painless to use - you just turn the key and slide it through the rear spokes, and the way it's attached it's hard to cut without removing it from the frame first, unless you don't mind damaging the bike or wheel.

It is worth mentioning that you shouldn't lock a bike around the seat tube. A thief can cut the frame tubing much easier than the lock, disguise the break by covering it with a u-lock carrying clamp and still have a ridable bike to sell.

Someone please make these bike parking structures [1] and put them everywhere. I would gladly pay to park my bike in one of these knowing it's secure, and not having to carry a heavy lock around everywhere.

also, please improve upon the design [2]

https://www.bicibox.cat/default.aspx [1]

http://www.lavanguardia.mobi/slowdevice/local/20120802/54332... [2]

If you really care, get the fancier lock (Kryptonite Fuhgettaboutit (http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-997986-Black-Fahgettaboudit...) they recommend and buy locking skewers. Then don't buy a new bike, but get a mid-80s steel bike and call it a day. I've left bikes locked up in the worst neighborhoods in SF overnight and haven't had shit stolen.

I used to use u-locks back in the day, but these days all bike shops in Amsterdam recommend chain (8mm), so that's what I use: http://www.hollandse-bakfietsen.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/0...

I use the Kryptolock Series 2 to lock up my cyclocross bike (CrossRip) on campus, but the cable is annoying to carry around so I end up exposing the back wheel more so to theft.

Thicker locks only increase the time it takes for a thief to cut through, so I bring my bike inside if I don't plan on riding for a few days.

Somewhat related: http://seatylock.com

The design of this lock is fundamentally bad (too big, many weak joints), and the video shows the designers don't know about the somewhat famous Sheldon Brown method described in the article.

I used the Sheldon Brown method for a while. Nobody stole my bike but I gave up on it after getting a few broken spokes. A rigid lock resting on a relatively weak spoke is asking for trouble.

Let's combine a cheap seat with a bad lock and market it to hipsters...

I had hoped it would somehow make it more dangerous for the thief or render the bike useless. The suggested model isn't going to do much but send the thief down to the next unsecured bike, which means if everybody does it we are no better of.

People tinker their websites to remove "friction".

Aren't bike locks just a way of adding a bit of friction?

I've been blown away lately with these bike stories on HN. For some reason, I never imagined that "normal" people would spend $8,000 (and up!) on a bicycle. I guess living in a big city is not something that I really want to do.

I'm a big fan of the OnGuard Mini:

http://amzn.com/B000FL3E8O

It's small (no leverage attacks), and reasonably light. I also leave a giant chain lock in the bike room of my building at work.

This article reminds me of the time I went for a ride with a friend down by the coast. I hadn't bothered to bring my lock - I hadn't planned on stopping - and he wanted to grab chips.

He offered his lock for both our bikes and pulled out his "decent lock" he got for £8. Needless to say I volunteered to wait outside and guard the bikes.

This is how you review bike locks.

> review lots of locks

> end up suggesting one that is flawed anyway.

No lock is perfect. You just need a lock that is better than the next guy's...

Nah, you need one filled with C4.

We used to hang horse theives no reason not to hang bike theives.

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