From Vertigo to Tinnitus, Ear Ailments Are New Focus for Drugs | Hacker News Reader

From Vertigo to Tinnitus, Ear Ailments Are New Focus for Drugs

nytimes.com

47 pointsdigisth26 comments

I have Meniere's disease myself and I have to say I thought I'd never see anything about it on HN, since it supposedly affects 0.2% of the population. That said, I'm very excited to see this article. While I'd never wish it on anybody else, I'm glad somebody else who has it is trying to do something about it.

I've been able to control the vertigo almost completely through consistent exercise, and it often comes back when I slack off a bit, but my hearing has never returned even partially, although I should maybe perform a more consistent test to actually measure the loss. This article definitely gives me hope that someday that might change, and I can stop having to turn my good ear or constantly worry that something might happen to that ear as well.

I also have Meniere's disease.

About a year ago I found this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16885753

The study (while incredibly small and perhaps statistically insignificant) suggests that drinking excess water may alter the production of vasopressin, essentially downregulating the body's retention of water.

I have tried to follow the recommendation (essentially drinking 100oz of extra water a day) and can anecdotally say that it seems to reduce my symptoms and is more effective in doing so than low salt diets, diuretics, and caffeine reduction. Plus it's more or less free.

I'm not optimistic on getting my hearing back though, at least in the near term. Best of luck.

Yeah, the most effective control for me has been consistent workouts. I've interestingly found that cardio seems to be best at keeping my symptoms at bay. My hypothesis there is that it's actually the extra sweat over strength training, and shedding of electrolytes thus lowering of my water retention that may lower pressure in the middle ear, keeping the membrane from rupturing. This is also anecdotal -- I'm not super keen on deliberately allowing the symptoms to return in order to experiment, and I don't exactly have a control group.

I'll have to try increasing my water intake as well and see how much that helps. Thanks for the advice, and best of luck to you as well :-)

Another Meniere's sufferer here. Triggers for me are the typical ones: alcohol, caffeine, high stress, sleep dep. Dietary salt doesn't seem to be a big one for me. I had steroids after my first attack, and have also tried various prescription diuretics and low-sodium diets, all to little effect. Learning about and avoiding my triggers (and, like the GP, getting regular exercise) has been the best bet for me.

I had a breakthrough a couple years ago when I was prescribed diazepam (Valium) to deal with acute attacks. Apart from its anxiolytic effects, it's a powerful vestibular suppressant, and works far better than anything I'd tried before (e.g. anticholinergics) to control vertigo and tinnitus.

In fact, since I usually get a 'prodrome' (symptoms build over a few days before a full-blown attack), I can get on the diazepam right away, and head off the attack before it gets out of hand (starting at 5mg/day, fairly low dose). This seems to also prevent the prolonged temporary hearing loss phase of a couple months after each attack.

Thanks for the link to the water cure, that's a new one, and pretty interesting. Best of luck to you!

0.2% is a huge number, really. That's 615,000 in the US alone.

I had lots of ear problems as a child so many ear aches and trips to the doctor but it all magically ended when my father quit smoking.

But all my life maybe once per year maybe twice I will suddenly get dizzy and I mean within a second. I have to sit still and not even move my head or even my eyes which are flicking back and forth as if I had just spun around for a few minutes. You wouldn't wish this on your worst enemy, it's probably why I'm not really into drinking alcohol I hate this feeling so much even the few times I get it.

My mother occasionally gets it and once my father did too but just the one time two years ago which was rare; we thought he was having a stroke so we rushed him to the hospital.

When the doctor looked at my dad he explained it was called BPPV (Benign paroxysmal positional vertigo) he explained it as a "rock" maybe calcium or something like that lodging between cilia of the inner ear.

It made me wonder if this is genetic although as far as I know my sister has never mentioned getting these dizziness attacks.

All the aging Baby Boomers are the target of new medicines I hope to benefit from them when I am a bit older.

Interesting.

My dad had severe Magnesium deficiency, after a genetic thyroid problem. The deficiency only got diagnosed because the doctor noticed the cramps. But for almost 2 weeks before the correct diagnosis, he developed a persistent vertigo that left him sick on the bed, could eat nothing, and drugs did nothing to improve.

Now, I know our bodies have a delicate Ca/Mg osmotic balance. I wonder if his vertigo was due to the same thing, minerals loose in the inner ear?

Might get you and your parent's thyroid hormone levels tested too (it's a simple blood test), it fixed my dad's vertigo for good.

Dad's been on synthroid for a good decade or more.

I don't think my mom has any thyroid issues.

Have the same issue and diagnosis (BPPV). 2 yrs ago, I visited my dentist - a marathon 2 hr appointment with my head tilted back - ever since that appointment I've had occasional vertigo. Not sure if it was related - but I'd never had symptoms prior. Head tilting back (while shaving , or roller-coasters or a dental chair), or working near a window/edge thats on the third or fourth floor, can bring it back.

Avoid Aspartame like the plague. You'll see people say (regarding Meniere's) that they've stopped drinking coffee, alcohol, soda and it helped with their attacks. The one thing many of those have in common is the wide popularity of "diet" or "lite" versions, usually containing Aspartame.

I noticed the same issues myself with Alcohol but it stopped almost completely once I switched to non-diet drinks (still in moderation, of course). Then I started getting attacks a little more frequently (the shorter "drop" attacks, though). I realized the only thing that had changed was that I'd started up again drinking diet soda containing, wouldn't you know it, aspartame. Since that moment I avoid it and it's served me well, along with consistent exercise.

I'm not a doctor, but I have a theory based on my observations that Aspartame compromises the strength of the barrier around the inner ear. Because of how I've felt the dizzy sensations start and eventually pass, I'm assuming fluid buildup causes the inner ear lining (probably scarred by now if my theory holds) to burst. This causes instant dizziness that subsides rather quickly at this point, likely due to damage of the hair cells. In my theory, the lining will burst either because it's been weakened (aspartame) or excessive pressure (when I've slacked on my workouts), or more often probably a little bit of both.

I'd love to get in contact with a doctor about it to explore the theory further, since I can definitely lay down some scientific method and observation, but my knowledge of the ear is probably pretty limited compared to that of an expert. Up until now, though, most doctors I've talked to seem to treat Meniere's as simply incurable and make no further time investments.

I just might try to reach out to this company and see if anybody there is interested even just give me a good reason my theory is wrong.

Very good info. During christmas break, I came off my exercise/activity routine, and the symptoms are back, after a longish gap.Will certainly try exercise. And avoid aspartame.

Yeah, I'm most confident about the exercise connection. Seemingly without fail, when I slack off from my 3 workouts a week, my symptoms return about two weeks in. And then when I start exercising consistently again, they subside a week or two later.

I don't drink alcohol (never was a big drinker anyway) and due to GERD I can't stand any artificial sweeteners they give me heartburn; a GERD flare up. About the only place I'd get any artificial sweetner is in toothpaste.

It's very rare anyway for dizziness maybe once or twice per year.

I am still recovering from a labyrinthitis I had more than a year ago. I was indeed surprised by the lack of research in the ear field and how much doctors don't know what is going on and how to fix it. Happy to read that some start-ups are filling this void ! Good luck to everyone who has these kind of issues, it's not a fun ride.

ps: for moral support I suggest to check out theses websites: http://vestibular.org/ http://www.dizzytimes.com

Though I do not have Meniere's disease, I've had tympanoplasties(eardrum reconstruction) on both ears after sports accidents. I have mild tinnitus that annoys me, but it's probably not as bad as what the chronic sufferers have.

Consequently, I started a company that makes mobile apps that help allay the pain of tinnitus. Unfortunately, there is no panacea for tinnitus, nor is there a scientific way to predict what kind of treatment might work for you. Tinnitus is a symptom of an underlying problem rather than a disease itself. That said, my apps employ a few treatment strategies including white noise/masking therapy and notch therapy. These therapies are effective for many people, but not all.

If anyone would like to try, my site is www.bxtel.com.

The key wording here is: " [this] will be something that people take every day for the rest of their life,"

That means a large amount of research dollars can be dumped into a product with recurring revenue. They never actually want a cure to be found.

Sure there are people who want a cure to be found. The problem (and not just for ear-related diseases): When you're a VP of Research and you are allotting the research budget or acquisition budget, do you go with prospect of a single pill cure or the lifelong treatment? The ROI on those two cases are likely very different.

I read a few months ago about stem cells being used somehow to regrow cochlear hairs in adults with tinnitus. Here's hoping that permanent cure becomes a reality before the subscription-based model does.

http://hearinghealthfoundation.org/cure_for_tinnitus

They never actually want a cure to be found.

Excuse me, but bullshit.

Yes you can have reoccurring revenue by creating a chronic treatment, but don't forget you can charge a lot more for a cure. Just look at what kind of money is being made in hepatitis C.

My wife has been diagnosed with Meniere's so I know first hand the problems that go along with it. I hope they can make some advance with these treatments.

One thing I would suggest because it's something we have control over, is to avoid prolonged loud noise as much as you can, e.g., concerts in a small setting. I'm 53 years old and have been listening to loud music my entire life, mostly through headphones, and it's starting to show recently. I certainly didn't help matters by going to an extremely loud concert last year in a small club without earplugs - this surely damaged my hearing even more.

|Meniere's disease I remember hearing on the Joe Rogan Podcast, Joe Rogan discussing going to Germany with Dana White, the owner of UFC. They did some kind of blood transfusion treatment. Joe did it for his knee, and Dana did it for his Meniere's disease, and supposedly it repaired his knee and stopped the disease. I don't recall what it was called though.

Dana White had stem cell therapy for his Meniere's. It costs something like $7000 for a treatment and wouldn't be covered by insurance. Also no guarantee that Dana White's issue is exactly the same as other Meniere's sufferers, he was a boxer and that probably affected his condition.

If you have the money to spare there doesn't seem to be much downside to the treatment but a big, expensive risk for most people.

I've had tinnitus since my early 20s and it is annoying but not such that I can't live my life (I've read of people who suffer from apparent 90 decibel buzzing). I have high frequency hearing loss and continuous buzzing, particularly in my left ear. Even though it's not debilitating, I'm happy to read that someday there may be treatment options.

Funny there's no mention anywhere in the article about MDMA's seemingly magic tinnitus healing properties. Studies are just now beginning.

Any suggestions for patulous eustachian tube? The physicians I've seen thus far seem mystified by the problem.

I wonder if wi-fi, mobile frequencies, etc. have increased these issues.

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