Don't soak your dried beans | Hacker News Reader

Don't soak your dried beans

latimes.com

57 pointsyonibot60 comments

Want to drop your bean preparation time down to about two minutes?

Cook them in a rice cooker. Just put them in with about 3:1 water to bean, press the button, and it turns itself off when they're done. Cooking time is still about an hour, but preparation time is a couple minutes.

I add olive oil, salt, and herbs (meat eaters can add bacon, ham, or whatever), which may add another minute to preparation time. You can make several meals worth of beans with a few minutes' effort and a dollar or two of ingredients.

I recommend the Hitachi Chime-o-matic if they still make them.

In a pressure cooker, time is under a half hour.

I live at high altitude, so no amount of time just boiling in a pot will ever soften dry black beans.

We've taken to pressure canning dried beans in pint jars. All that, plus the end product is shelf-stable so you can build up a variety of pre-cooked beans in the pantry for convenience.

May I ask what altitude, roughly, you live at?

Nice idea, I will try that. A question though: I have always heard that adding salt to cooking beans makes them tough. Add salt at the dinner table to taste.

The salt thing is mentioned in the article. According to the author it's better to add salt before cooking.

I was under the assumption that uncooked beans contain enzyme inhibitors (which make digestion more difficult), and germinating the beans before cooking reduces the effectiveness of these inhibitors.

This article isn't nearly as scientific as I hoped it would be.

Perhaps germinating the beans also triggers a process similar to malting of barley for beer making. It breaks down some complex sugars, making them easier to ferment, and perhaps easier to digest as well.

I like to soak beans for over 24 hours in order to let them start to ferment (lactobacillus, not yeast) a little. It can be tricky to get the right timing, but I think that the slight tang is quite tasty.

Speaking of bacteria and beans, if you eat sprouts (uncooked), you might want to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_sprout#Bacterial_infectio...

I thought it's a safety issue. Not sure which type but one of the beans definitely have to be soaked.

Kidney beans should definitely be soaked prior to cooking. The FDA recommends soaking dry kidney beans for 5 hours then cooking them for half an hour to dissolve the toxin they contain. It takes a surprisingly low number of beans to induce the toxicity, as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaseolus_vulgaris#Toxicity

The information in that wikipedia article seems incomplete or contradictory. It says that boiling for 10m degrades the toxin. If that's the case, why is cold soaking for 5h necessary?

10 minutes of boiling for regular kidney beans will degrade the toxin. If they're dried, however, you need to soak them in order to rehydrate them.

"ten minutes at boiling point (100°C, 212°F) are sufficient to degrade the toxin. For dry beans... soak at least 5 hours."

I make really delicious slow cooker black beans every Sunday, following this recipe I found online:

http://cafejohnsonia.com/2013/02/how-to-slow-cooker-black-be...

She recommends skipping the soak and I haven't noticed any problems yet!

Don't do this with kidney beans.

http://www.dadcooksdinner.com/2010/09/slow-cookers-and-red-k...

It says they only last a week in the freezer?? I'd think they'd last at least a month or two, no?

I think it was just poorly worded and the one week timing would be if you stored them in the fridge.

I do agree that unsoaked beans are more flavorful, but I disagree with the assertion that "soaking does absolutely nothing to reduce the gas-producing properties of beans". I've eaten them both ways for years, and in my experience, unsoaked beans definitely produce more flatulence. The exception to that is pressure-cooking. Pressure-cooked unsoaked beans do not seem to produce any more flatulence than soaked. I'm not sure the scientific reason for that.

I know this is anecdotal but yeah, I have been eating pressure-cooked beans for 30 years now and I don't even recall the last time I had gases because of beans. I don't even get why people have problems with beans in the first place. I assume it is only because pressure cookers are not common in some countries.

Everyone here is mentioning the "bean flatulence" effect that soaking apparently prevents. Adding my two cents: if you take the article's advice specifically for red kidney beans, you'll have bigger problems than gas.

http://www.foodreference.com/html/artredkidneybeanpoisoning....

Nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Ugh.

Title is misleading, as the article recommends not soaking beans in cold water.

Those of us who cover the dry beans in water, bring to a boil, drain, soak in warm water, drain again, then cook as required by the recipe are vindicated later in the article. That's when it mentions that the fermentable oligosaccharides responsible for bean-related flatus are largely removed by that method.

If you're going to soak uncooked beans in water cooler than pasteurization temperature for any length of time, it would be wise to inoculate your water with a safe fermentation bacterium, such as by adding a blob of yogurt. That will reduce the amount of internal fermentation that happens later, and if you opt to sprout the beans instead of cooking them, the safe bacteria may be able to outcompete any pathogenic bacteria that may have remained on the surface of the dry beans.

For larger beans like kidneys, I disagree. But for split lentils, various dals, navy beans, etc, you can get away with not soaking them. One thing I have found (and Cooks Illustrated concurs) is that you should salt both the soaking water and the cooking water.

Here's a paper on PubMed that found soaking reduces oligosaccharide content (that's what gets eaten by your intestinal flora to produce flatunelence) but not nutritional content: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12489819

Eliminating sugars and starches likely impacts both the texture and flavor, however. Likely negatively.

>Don't soak your dried beans! Now even the cool kids agree

Apparently socks and sandals are in fashion this year. Is this a phase the cool kids are going through or is it science?

Including heinz five bean, I think I've had 8-10 different beans in the last year. Which bean is this article so scientifically talking about.

I am genuinely curious, why is this post on Hackernews' front page? Yes I know this type of comment is typically frowned upon (and will happily accept the downvotes), but seriously--a story about cooking beans with some vague science and anecdotes?

It's ironic that something named "Hacker News" focuses so much on rationalism & observable "proofs".

This article seems to be in the spirit of a Hacker. Vague science & anecdotes on something that seems to work is a pathway to discoveries & innovations.

There's a difference between hacking and hand waving. One of them generally has some empirical evidence to present afterwards.

Because, in all seriousness, this is about hacking food. How could it NOT be worthy of HN?

It's important to remember that the hacker mentality is not limited to the field of computer science, or even science at all; the concept of creative ingenuity transcends fields and industries.

Per the guidelines: "On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting."

It doesn't say anything about it having to be computer-specific, or technology-specific, or even maker-specific. Just that it has to be something hackers would find interesting.

And considering that it made it to the front page, QED.

Because why not? It fits within the guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) after all.

I assumed it had something to do with PG's beans & rice being a small bit of YC lore...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=525529

Maybe people are thinking about lunch.

I'll be honest: I'm always thinking about lunch.

I thought the reason to soak the beans was not for texture or flavor, but to make the easier to digest. Ya know, that whole 'beans beans are good for your heart' thing?

I've cooked beans almost every day for years and my experiences are not at all in line with what the amateur in this article thinks he has discovered.

Why do you describe the author as an amateur? He's been writing about cooking for 30 years and has several published cookbooks. What does qualifications would he need to be a "professional" bean cooker?

Good question. I thought I saw the author say he was new to cooking beans. I don't see that in there now, and in my defense... I have a 102 degree fever today.

From your snide wording and claimed expertise, I take it you're a professional bean cooker?

Was your post just a teaser?

Well, I'm often skeptical of articles that claim "everything you know about x subject is wrong". As I said, I've cooked beans just about every day for years. Yes, I could easily be a professional bean cooker. The journalist stated that he has very little experience actually doing this himself and based his conclusions on a few ad hoc tests. The journalist is neither experienced nor an expert.

But on further reading, I guess I misunderstood and he is experienced at raw bean preparation. Oh well, I was a bit out of it this morning. Sorry to The Bean Lord.

You're the only person here claiming to be a Bean Lord.

Can you elaborate? How do you cook your beans?

I also read "amateur" all over the article. In Brazil people have been cooking beans for centuries and honestly I cannot even understand his doubts or questions. In the past we used to soak beans overnight just because otherwise they would take ages to cook in regular pots (and some people still do that when they only have regular pots to cook with). But that was it, just to speed things up. No (real) difference in flavor, digestion etc.

Nearly every house in Brazil has a pressure cooker. Even in favelas everybody has one. I would say 90% of them were bought just to cook beans every other day. The basic brazilian way is to simply cook the beans in the pressure cooker with nothing else but water. Then we it reaches the biting point you want (between 20 and 40 minutes, depending on the beans) you take a big spoon of that, smash it in another pan with garlic and some chopped onions and oil and then put it back into the cooker, plus salt to taste. And that is it. Nothing more.

If the whole soaking or cooking debate was real, specially considering the gas issue he mentions, I think Brazil would be the biggest polluter of methane in the world by the way.

EDIT: grammar

Seems that indeed we are the biggest polluter of methane in the world, unless I am getting this wrong: http://www.helgilibrary.com/indicators/index/bean-consumptio...

Sorry I didn't include more details. I change the water often, and sometimes use the boil and soak method. Sometimes I change the water after they've started to cook, especially if there is a lot of foam. All of my experiences indicate this decreases flatulence. It is true that long soaking periods can decrease flavor and produce a non-optimal texture.

I find that canned beans and beans from certain restaurants do produce more gas for me.

The article does go on to say that the boil and soak method effectively reduces gas producing sugars. It would be nice if this was highlighted more in the exposition and main claims of the article. Rather, it makes it sound like all soaking is unnecessary.

As far as baking soda, my friend in Australia was having a very difficult time getting beans to soften due to the properties of the local water and was very pleased at the results when I suggested using baking soda. I don't do this myself, as it is said to decrease certain nutrients.

Thanks! I will definitely try your ideas. I have to agree that changing the water decreases flatulence... I love the beans hate the flatulence

Please do not spread this incorrect information!

The reason you soak beans is not to improve the flavor. It is to dissolve the flavorless and indigestible sugars that give you massive bean-gas when you eat them. If you soak beans well before cooking -- then change the water and cook them -- then change the water again and rinse them well before finishing the cooking process -- you will have a tasty, nutritious treat that doesn't make your ass explode!

That's right! You can have totally fart-free beans. Only most restaurants and chefs are totally oblivious to this fact, so you can't really trust prepared beans any time you go out. There should be a certified-fart-free label for the restaurants that really know what's up.

From "Effects of Various Soybean Products on Flatulence in the Adult Man." at http://ebm.sagepub.com/content/121/4/1235.short

"Conclusions: In 4 human male subjects, kept on a carefully controlled diet to which various fractions of soybean meal were added, the flatus-producing factor in soybeans was concentrated primarily in the low molecular-weight constituents. These experiments also showed that the soybean hulls, fat, water-insoluble polysaccharides, and protein are not associated with flatulence production to any significant degree. Caseinate and soybean proteinate appear to inhibit flatulence. When equivalent amounts of navy bean meal were consumed, flatus volumes increased 2.52 times that following the consumption of dehulled, defatted soybean meal."

Could you precis that for the lazy casual reader?

I've also always heard that, but isn't that one of the myths that the article supposedly disproved?

I don't think the article disproved it. In my experience, soaking does definitely reduce the flatulence effects.

True, it didn't disprove it. I was merely going based on the quote, "...suffice it to say that even with almost all of the alpha-galactosides gone, there wasn't a consistent marked decrease in human flatulence." They went on to say: "We reduced the alpha-galactoside content by 90% but we haven't done anything to dietary fiber," says Gray, "and dietary fiber produces similar effects."

That's an interesting scientific study. It confirmed that soaking can dissolve the complex sugars which contribute to flatulence. True it doesn't do anything about the fiber, but perhaps fiber has much less flatulence-causing effects for many people? I'm curious exactly how they measured the amount of flatulence and how large the population size of the study was.

Actually dietary fiber does NOT create similar effects.

SOLUBLE dietary fiber does. And that is also dissolved by water. Which is why you soak.

The article actually confirms this explicitly if you read it.

Can you cite that? I just read it and found these two quotes:

  Finally, soaking does absolutely nothing to reduce the gas-producing properties 
  of beans.

  It was thought that soaking beans in cold water leached 
  these sugars out of the bean. Throw away the water and you 
  throw away the gas -- it has a simple appeal. 
  
  Unfortunately, it isn't true. These sugars are part of what 
  the bean uses for nourishment as it grows into a plant, 
  and the bean does not part with them gladly.

Harold McGee has addressed this [1]:

"The main reasons for presoaking beans are to shorten the cooking time substantially, and to leach out the indigestible carbohydrates that make beans gassy. The disadvantage of presoaking is that you also leach out many other soluble materials, including vitamins and minerals.

"You retain more nutrients by cooking the beans in the soak water, but you also retain the gassy carbohydrates. I recommend soaking beans, then cooking them in the same water at a bare simmer for at least a couple of hours, even if they’re soft before then. Extended cooking breaks down the gassy carbohydrates."

He also suggests adding salt to the water when soaking [2]:

[1] http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/a-healthy-way-t...

[2] http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/harold-mcg...

> Only most restaurants and chefs are totally oblivious to this fact

For some reason I find this hard to believe.

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