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Comment by larrybolt | Hacker News Reader

This was an interesting read, but what to me personally is more interesting is how to prevent hearing loss over the years.

I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. A dynamic headphones, such as the good old Superlux HD 681 would be "better" in the long term. (Not trying to advertise for that headphone, it's just one of the few that is cheap, good, and I can rewire myself and even add a plug so I can easily buy new aux cables).

However I cannot wear my headphone longer than 6 hours without it getting annoying. And running with a big headphone is a big no, but than again, I'm nowhere near to running longer than 30 minutes in a row.

Anyone who has his own thoughts on this topic?

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I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time.

The issue isn't necessarily about all "earbuds," the issue is that many earbuds (including the ones included with Apple iOS products) don't seal the ear canal very well, so a listener is exposed to outside sounds in addition to sounds from the player. Since the outside sounds have a tendency to mask the sounds coming from the earbuds, the listener will often turn up the volume to better hear the audio material and therefore be exposed to SPL's that can cause hearing damage over long exposure times.

The advice to use something like the Superlux HD 681 is that circumaural headphones offer some (not a lot, but some) shielding from outside noise, so a user won't be tempted to increase the volume level as much. Active noise canceling headsets and in-ear-monitors (like Etymotics-brand) provide better sound isolation so that users can keep the volume at more moderate levels.

>the issue is that many earbuds don't seal the ear canal very well

For those wondering which earbuds do provide decent isolation, there are, as you stated, the pretty expensive "in-ear-monitors", but you can also go for cheaper earbuds based on isolating memory foam like the JVC marshmallows, which are pretty cheap and provide decent isolation.

For really high noise environments, like airplanes, I like using 30db dampening earplugs and then circumaural heaphones over them.

Exactly. With my Etymotics in-canal buds, I can set the volume on my music player to about 25-30%. With the stock buds or even non-isolating over-the-ear headphones, the same subjective loudness requires about 60-75% on the volume control.

This is not a good measure, because different earphones have different efficiencies.

And the type of earphone changes the efficiency as well: The sound from the Etymotics all goes to your ear, but the others waste some sound out of your ear.

Be aware that many prescription medications are ototoxic (e.g. Aspirin). I recently had a routine check-up of my hearing and at 31 my actual "hearing age" is supposedly 66 for higher frequencies - permanent hearing loss most likely brought on by Wellbutrin which I took for some weeks only (I've never been exposed to loud noises and never was much of a headphones user). Just putting it out there, be wary with prescriptions of Wellbutrin especially.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ototoxicity

I use earbuds, but I set the volume while I'm somewhere quiet. If the underground train is drowning out the music, so be it.

I've also used reusable earplugs (I spent about £15) for all gigs, nightclubs etc. Sometimes I use them in noisy pubs.

> However I cannot wear my headphone longer than 6 hours without it getting annoying.

That's a really long time. Wouldn't it be best to reduce it?

The main charity for deaf people in the UK, which seems to have renamed itself from the "Royal National Institute for the Deaf" to "Action on Hearing Loss", has a campaign called [Don't lose the music](http://www.dontlosethemusic.org.uk/).

I don't often go to clubs or places in general with loud music, but I play music trough earbuds/headphones to shut out distracting noises around me. And I guess to get "in the zone". I'm going to look up if there would be earplugs that could help me with that.

And 6 hours is seldom, it's the max, but average I do go above the suggested 1 hour.

OP here. Some argue that in-ear earbuds send more high frequency energy directly into the ear than headphones, so the balance of sound is always tilted towards the highs, which over time can cause more high-frequency loss (low frequency loss is fairly uncommon). The difference between headphones and earbuds is likely minor - the volume you set your music to probably has a much greater impact. Get a pair with good isolation or cancellation, so you can keep the music volume lower.

One thing that works really well for preserving your hearing is taking breaks - this is especially true of loud concerts (step out for a bathroom break once an hour), but also holds true if you're going to listen to headphones at high volumes for many hours straight.

I remember with a pair of earbuds getting a little informational thing on the correct volume.

Their rule of thumb is if you are incapable of hearing and understanding what people are telling you without taking out your earbuds, they're too loud.

I tried this out, and found that I'm actually fine with the volume bar being maybe 30% of what I used to. Basically, put your earbuds in, play some music, and try to talk to someone. If you're unable to then you might be playing your music way too loud.

(For people using earbuds to drown workplace noise out, I'd suggest an ambient noise program like noiz.io. You can train your brain to filter ambient background noise, and its better than trying to 1-up the sounds in your office)

"incapable of hearing and understanding what people are telling you without taking out your earbuds"

High quality isolating earbuds should make it pretty difficult to tell what other people are saying even with no music playing! Moving to a mid-range pair of Etymotic noise isolating earbuds was an absolute revelation for me and allowed me to use significantly lower volumes when listening to music. I can't recommend high quality isolating headphones/earbuds enough.

In addition to poor isolation noted here, many cheap-o earbuds have a horrible response curve.

They deliver way too much sound in narrow frequency ranges, usually the mid-range, say 1-4Khz, while not enough in the bass, and it's a mixed bag higher up through 10Khz+

People will turn it up, until they are hearing everything, and they do very significant damage to those "hot spot" frequency ranges, despite the overall perception of volume seeming reasonable to them.

Add overly compressed music, and or crappy audio output, and the need to drive it loud happens to nearly everybody.

There will be a whole generation of people, some who we are already seeing struggle with this, requiring adaptive sound options more early in life than is typical.

If your ears hurt or are annoyed, stop.

Quiet is better than loud. The more sound isolation your phones provide from the outside world, the quieter you can play your music and enjoy it.

If you're sitting with headphones on for six hours, maybe you should get up a few times.

> If your ears hurt or are annoyed, stop.

I'd say it's more from the pushing on the sides of my head, not so much from the volume of the music. But you are right, and I have been thinking about stopping listening to music trough headphones when working, and use speakers.

> If you're sitting with headphones on for six hours, maybe you should get up a few times.

I have to say that my current working desk and rhythm is pretty much perfect as far as I know. My eyes never get tired, the screens are a good distance away from me, and I don't have to look down. I have a decent computer chair, and I take breaks about every hour, to go outside or get a new cup of coffee (but I do that with my headphones/earbuds in).

Heck, no employee can offer a better working situation if you ask me, I'm all for the working remote - office not required-idea! :P

I've lost hearing in my left ear, and I'm pretty sure it's due to years of driving with the window down.

I wear good quality noise cancelling headphones with the music turned quite low. I feel like this is doing a lot to preserve my hearing.

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