Microsoft is building a new browser as part of its Windows 10 push | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft is building a new browser as part of its Windows 10 push

zdnet.com

61 pointsmsoad46 comments

So it's using Trident and Chakra, the same document engine and JS engine as IE. It's also Windows-only (?).

I don't see how this is a new lightweight browser. It looks like a new skin on the old one with a PR push to back it up.

You could have said the same for the initial releases of Chrome and Firefox

How exactly?

Fire fox was a new browser built around Mozilla components. Chrome was a new browser built around WebKit. So, it's similar if they are replacing the interface components. However, not similar in that those browsers were made by different groups while this one is still made by Microsoft like the last 10 versions of Internet Explorer.

>in that those browsers were made by different groups

Is that the case for Firefox? I had thought it was just a side project by some Mozilla engineers.

Yes. Initially FF was just a side project to release the Mozilla browser component as a standalone app, just like Thunderbird was.

Cross platform? I don't believe it but it would be a smart move by Microsoft. Firefox is my browser because I can use it on any of my devices (Android, Linux, and Windows) and sync them. Mozilla respecting my privacy and promoting an open Internet is also a biggie for me.

Sorry MS, I stopped using IE like during the XP years...

If you stopped using Internet Explorer when IE6 was the latest version, then you really don't have any right to talk about the browser as it stands now, let alone a modern, ground-up rebuild.

You don't have to use something to understand it. That's one of the great benefits of having a brain: you can learn from other people's mistakes. You don't have to shoot yourself in the foot to know gun safety either.

sometimes you just have to see it for yourself. don't take information blindly.

Sometimes we have to decide for ourselves when 'sometimes' is.

Yeah he does. If IE falls through on his two main must-have features then it doesn't matter how familiar he is with the other features it might offer.

Thanks maxmcd for pointing out the obvious point of my comment for the others. :-)

I applaud their recent decisions that will affect developers and want to seem them continue this path, but I'm weighing it with an appropriate dose of skepticism and concern.

Despite knowing about the IE6 problem for several years at the time, they still repeated the same problem with Vista just two years ago, stopping support at IE9 (which has plenty of problems when it comes to supporting modern web development).

Yeah modern version of IE have certainly caused me numerous headaches over the years. Mark as avoid and run away (with the help of polyfills).

Does he still have a right to talk if he's supporting users who are still intent on using IE6?

Huh???

I don't have a right? Gee, I remember when Hacker News was known for it's quality comments but see you are a newbie here. Sigh...

FYI, I was referring to the browser of choice for my personal use. My work does require the use of IE for many things so I do have to use it occasionally. Regardless, the reasons I gave why Firefox worked for me should have tipped you off why IE would still not be a contender for me today.

I hope by "lightweight" they mean that the new browser will not be tied to specific windows releases anymore and it can update to the latest version independent of users having to upgrade their entire os..

wishful thinking :)

Making the browser less tied to the OS would actually make it "heavier" by pulling technology out of the OS and into the browser.

The obvious example is Direct2D/DirectWrite, the very reason why IE10 doesn't work on Windows XP.

Firefox "solved" this problem by having tons of pluggable OS-specific pieces, resulting in a whole morass of confusion and inconsistency which Microsoft are probably trying to avoid. As an example, many Linux users from 2009 will recall disabling Pango to try to make their Firefox run faster.

Firefox also has to run its CI tests on all sorts of combinations of hardware and operating system:

https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=mozilla-central

By limiting to the newest OS, Microsoft can much more easily do quality control - of course, at the cost of shutting out many users.

This, so much... Windows already forces so many updates, what's one more? As long as it doesn't take two hours to install, it would go a long way to help the perception of Microsoft's browser

>wishful thinking :)

yeah :) I doubt people update their browsers any more than they update their OS.

I'd be more concerned about "Windows 10 (at least the desktop version) will ship with both Spartan and IE 11". That seems reminiscent of the Windows 8 modern UI browser vs desktop browser having separate current tabs and different supported features. Very confusing for users.

It could very well be that spartan's the default browser that people see, but IE11's there as an option for people who need backwards compatibility with the classic ie ecosystem.

So it sounds like they are just renaming Internet Explorer. Nothing to see here. What would be compelling is if it was open-source.

Is it even that compelling if it's open source? I'd rather it just be based on WebKit and contribute back to that project.

I'm not sure a webkit monoculture is good for the web in the long run. Having multiple browser engines compete is a really positive thing, as long as they are all going for standards compliance. Thankfully, even Microsoft have made huge moves in the right direction on that front.

Renderers are one place where I wouldn't mind a monoculture. I'm guessing billions?! of dollars of wasted man hours have been spent on making websites look the same across browsers.

Why? Trident is a good rendering engine, I'm glad it exists. But if it were open-source that would be even better.

"what the fuck is IE doing that for ... ohhhhh, that's what's going on here"

required http://www.cvedetails.com/product/9900/Microsoft-Internet-Ex...

Not sure I understand the point of your link. Chrome has more than twice the number of vulnerabilities in a smaller timespan, while IE has more exploits than Chrome.

http://www.cvedetails.com/product/15031/Google-Chrome.html?v...

The thing that would be interesting here is a browser that doesn't have to support internet explorer's backwards compatibility problems. That covers more than just the css quirks...

A new browser would be able to take advantage of the new security model in "metro" apps that can't really be used by IE and still support all their app compat scenarios. A new browser could be standards compliant and incredibly locked down.

This i believe is the point of creating a new browser. Here are things I hope they borrow heavily from Chrome: 1. Very short (uncluttered) "right click" menu 2. Simple setting menu - with search 3. One-click uninstall of extensions

One thing not in chrome I'll kill for is the ability to set HTML5 videos and audios as "click to play."

> Windows 10 (at least the desktop version) will ship with both Spartan and IE 11, my sources say. IE 11 will be there for backward-compatibility's sake

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't last sentence imply IE's going to be abandoned?

To enable coding multi-platform extensions in C# with Visual Studio?

Ta-daa-a :)

They started in Windows 8... with the Metro Browser (what you use in the new metro UI shell. if you are curious to see a fake metro browser PoC I created a while ago: http://evilmetro.heroku.com ).

Looks like the next step in that project.

They should be building a new Operating System, but a new browser is fine, too.

Can't say I am that excited. Why don't they build something that is better than FF/Chrome, not just play catch up?

Will it need or run ActiveX controls?

I'm sure it will be, but if it's not open-source (and hence cross-platform) they might as well not bother. I'm not downloading a 4GB VM from modern.ie to try it.

I'm not sure you understand Microsoft's business model.

Their business model is slowly getting disrupted to shit, and they need to keep up. Probably too late for them on the browser front. They are unlikely to make something better than Chrome/FF.

I hope they make it cross platform too. If they do a good job making a browser I don't mind using it as my default browser

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