The Benefits of Being Cold | Hacker News Reader

The Benefits of Being Cold

theatlantic.com

247 pointslxm176 comments

I used to dislike the cold, always feeling I suffered greatly from it due to growing up in poverty in the UK and living in damp spaces (mould on the walls, condensation on the window, a cough always a breathe away).

Then I was homeless, sleeping rough through UK winters.

One does adapt, and fairly quickly too. The first nights I slept out during snowfall I didn't get much sleep as I was shivering too violently and uncontrollably. On subsequent nights I discovered cardboard (helps prevent the moisture from dew covering your body and subsequently freezing, as well as acting like an air cocoon around you holding warmer air to the body).

It was still below freezing on those nights, but I'd adapted the environment enough to remove the most severe effects. In turn, I was able to adapt to the temperature itself. I would feel myself slow down, and fall into very deep and peaceful sleeps.

It's been a long time since I was homeless, and I am fortunate now to have a roof above my head during winter. One thing remains though, I still never use the heater and leave all of the windows open in my flat. Last night was -2'c in London with a Northerly wind, and yet all of my windows were left open and I slept soundly.

For me, I tend to have a problem in the other extreme now: I find it hard to stay awake or do anything when the temperature is too high (above 30'c) and plan most holidays to be in cold climates or off-seasons so as to ensure I get the most out of them (side-effect of also being cheaper and avoiding a crush of tourists too).

You can also get used to heat. But it takes a while, too, as I learned when I was living in Singapore.

Very true. Yesterday it was about 38c with a sensation much higher, and at night I slept pretty good with my trusty blanket. I've lived in tropical climates pretty much my whole life, and it's the cold places that bother me.

I never get used to the hot+humid combination in Singapore.

Some of my Singaporean friends got almost jealous that I often coped better than them. I sweated like crazy, though.

I've always wondered how homeless people deal with cold when I saw them during winter. It's amazing what our bodies can do.

In the most extreme conditions I used to visit building sites as the site offices tended to remain unlocked (there's nothing in there to steal) and they were unattended from 7pm through 5am. They also tended to have a kettle and some enamel cups... usually all dirty at the end of a day but with boiling water to hand that isn't an issue. One can sleep there and actually feel really safe and secure, not just from the harshest conditions but I never saw anyone else in those spaces so I didn't have to fear being mugged either.

The very worst thing to do is precisely what you see some homeless people do, which is to drink alcohol. It's temporarily soothing and warming, but your body loses some of it's ability to effectively regulate temperature. The people I saw in the worst trouble when I walked the streets were those who drank heavily.

Strange how I didn't comprehend at the time that my extreme hunger over winter could probably be correlated with the cold and burning more calories to deal with it. Thankfully compassion increases during winter and food is slightly more readily available.

The only other thing I'll add is shoes. If your feet are warm when you're walking your 30 miles a day (what I believe I averaged through rough calculation) then you feel warm. Cold feet and you feel freezing. Good boots, thick soles, are a blessing and felt more valuable to me than a heavy coat.

Actually, another thing. Wisdom says to layer, but if you're not actually mobile much overnight I always found fewer thicker layers to be better. i.e. a thick cable-knit jumper trumped multiple thinner layers. I suspect layers are really the solution for highly active people such as skiers, runners and so on, but if you're immobile in the cold a thick jumper helps more.

A little bit off-topic, but why were you walking so much? And where did you find so much energy to do so (I presume you would probably need to eat a lot (much more than 2,000 calories) to be able to walk so many miles)?

I'd made myself homeless to move on from a place I didn't want to be.

I didn't really see the point in staying in a new place I didn't want to be (sitting on a street).

I chose to walk cities, talk to people, hitchhike around the UK, and generally see if I could find a life and place I did want.

It also means I avoided getting into a rhythm of hostels, soup kitchens, and charity.

I know I was homeless and sleeping rough, but at the time I didn't view it like that. At the time I just viewed myself as a nomad, wandering around with a backpack containing some library books for company.

What and how much did you eat a day?

Varied greatly, from Pizza Hut all you can eat buffets, through to toast provided by students who let me crash.

For a long time I used Complan and other "off your food" alternatives as supplements to a bad diet - http://www.complan.com/nutritional-info.aspx . Very much like Soylent is doing today, they provided a simple way to get everything you might need. They say to only have one or two per day, I used to consume 2-3 with milk and also add pasta to the mix (I had a camping stove and pasta was my most reliable simple meal).

It varied greatly though, I was homeless for almost two and half years. Diet was something I got wrong a lot before I got it mostly right. I was much healthier when I was sleeping rough than I was when I was living in damp social housing on a diet of whatever my mother could deep fry.

Any chance you'd be interested in writing up in more detail what your experiences were like? Or maybe you did so already?

Seconded. If you do please ping me (email on profile page).

I'm not sure I can write it up.

I was someone back then that I didn't like, I'm glad I moved on but if I did a comprehensive job of putting it in words I'd have to re-live that time again, and who I was. Hate to go all Bladerunner, but I've seen things, done things, that I no longer want the memory of. Putting it into words would give it life again.

You're most likely familiar with Orwell's "Down and Out in Paris and London" and "The Road to Wigan Pier", two of the finest books ever written.

The first is his "vivid and moving account of life below poverty line", first in Paris, when he, after resigning being a servant of the Empire as a police officer in Burma, had to resort to low-wage, hard, menial 17-hour works in Paris restaurants, and later when he lived as a "tramp" in London, going from spike to spike, meeting others like him.

I don't know if you'd "enjoy" these books though... But they are unrivaled in their shrewdness and, well, it is Orwell and he can write better than anyone.

"Putting it into words would give it life again."

I can understand that.

How about practical advice to those who find themselves in the same situation? Dictate into a sound recorder to minimise the engagement with the memories?

What was your mindset like during that time period? It sounds almost adventurous, the way you wrote your post.

I acted like it was an adventure because it was the only way to deal with what I was doing. I left home, to sleep on the street, without any money or possessions, until such a time (for as far as I could see into the future) that I could get my life to a better place.

If I hadn't walked around a little in make-believe and "Scout on a quest" type mode, well... maybe I wouldn't be here.

During the darkest days on the street I thought I wouldn't live to be 20. It still haunts a little today: perhaps I should have been dead (many times over)?

By pretending it was an adventure then, and revising my personal history of it now to sound more adventurous (and less dull, traipsing on my own around cities), helps me to survive now.

Well I'm glad you're still here. Thanks for sharing.

> Actually, another thing. Wisdom says to layer, but if you're not actually mobile much overnight I always found fewer thicker layers to be better. i.e. a thick cable-knit jumper trumped multiple thinner layers. I suspect layers are really the solution for highly active people such as skiers, runners and so on, but if you're immobile in the cold a thick jumper helps more.

It's a matter of managing the sweat. In the winter you want to be warm up until you start sweating. Sweat in the winter freezes and makes you more cold. Layers help wick away sweat, and are easier to adjust so you don't get too hot. So, yeah, layers are much more important when being active.

I can't imagine how homeless people here in Canada survive -25C or lower temperatures, combined with wind it could feel like -50C.

I know of a guy that lives in the wood next to my town. Even in harsh winter, you can be quite warm if you can have a fire and snow to build shelter. The poor guys in Montréal don't have that luck and sleep in every corner you can find that cuts the wind.

It's also not uncommon for homeless people to freeze to death during the winters.

One of our city-based HPC facilities has had a recurring fault where the aircon goes off for no obvious reason overnight. Eventually we figured out that a homeless guy had realised he could sleep above a vent from the aircon and be relatively warm - and had also realised he could turn off the system (it's not very secure) to cut the noise down but still be warm from the heat coming out.

At the moment we're just ignoring it as it's -3C just now in the daytime. Better to loose a few HPC jobs than freeze the poor guy.

This is ace. If I were homeless nowadays this is probably something I would've sought out.

Great story. Glad you managed to get out of the street.

Glad you are not homeless. In school, I read a short story written by Jack London about what it feels like to be really cold--turns out he wrote it on a beach in Hawaii. Forgot the name of the story. When I read the story, I thought it was great literature, but I read it knowing I would never be homeless. As I have aged, and feel more financially vunerable--and sometimes close to being Homeless--these stories about being cold are too close to home.

Was it "To Build a Fire"? It's story about a man and his dog who venture out at the onset of a storm. A very good read.

"Last night was -2'c in London with a Northerly wind, and yet all of my windows were left open and I slept soundly."

Do you use blankets/a duvet?

Have you a thermometer to monitor internal temperature in your sleeping space? OA recommends 12 to 16 Celsius?

I grew up in a (sound, dry) house without central heating in the Northern UK and remember Jack Frost on the windows by the way.

A sheet and two cheap blankets. I can afford nice down quilts but haven't felt the need.

I find it colder to walk around bare foot first thing in the morning. Slippers help there (when I can find them).

I practice being cold on purpose too. It was about 0C today and I have a shirt and thin jumper on (I have a jacket in my bag in case of rain). I think the metabolic effects are potentially interesting, but I actually do it for another reason: The stoic idea of exposing oneself to voluntary discomfort. [1]

"While everyone around me is complaining about how cold it is or about how hungry they are I am content and comfortable with fewer layers of clothing and less food. I am just happy to be alive, as I have voluntarily endured much harsher situations.

This practice of voluntary discomfort that Stoicism does more than just make you appreciate comfort, it teaches you to have a high tolerance of that which is uncomfortable and you will always be content; it is something that you should practice at least a few times a month because you grow confident that if you can survive these minor periods of discomfort, you can also survive major discomforts as well."

I will always remember as part of Royal Marines commando training doing situps in a freezing stream in November on Dartmoor laughing hysterially with 20 other men about how freezing we were while the the training team looked on shouting "Come on men, this builds character!". They were right!

[1] http://www.lifehack.org/articles/productivity/how-to-practic...

I just started reading Seneca. Also reading some Zen stuff too. I don't think it's about voluntary discomfort, but just non-attachment to the comfort. You can go out in the cold and it's not good or bad, just cold. If it's warm, it's just warm. You can unhook the normal response system and just experience things directly without labeling them good or bad. It certainly does make you appreciate comfort.

Some groups of Australian Aborigines are known to enter a 'hibernation' state at night, in which temperatures plummet to near-freezing temperatures. Their bodies don't shiver - instead, they go into hypothermia, and 'revive' in the morning.

There's a well-known paper from 1958 documenting some of this: 'Cold Adaptation in Australian Aborigines', by Scholander et al; but the more interesting account is from the Textbook of Biochemistry and Human Biology by Talwar & Srivastava: "Australian aborigines... a group of stone age people who customarily sleep comfortably without clothing, on the ground at temperatures well below freezing. Their body and skin temperature drops tremendously, insulation against heat loss increases by vasoconstriction, and metabolism and heat production remains unaltered. This ethnic group have developed the inborn ability to tolerate hypothermia without recourse to compensation by metabolic heat production - a case of acclimatization by genetic adaptation." (page 886)

When the English first began settling in New England in the 1600s, they were astonished that the local Indian men and boys wore only a loincloth during most of the year, even in snowy weather, adding leggings and a small shawl on the shoulders only in the coldest weeks of the New England winter.

I would love to learn more about this adaptation, which has been witnessed in multiple ethnic groups by so many witnesses that, even allowing for tall tails from exotic lands, still is apparently a real phenomenon (or multiple phenomena).

I wonder, for example, whether it makes a difference how old you are when you begin your "training". I wonder how much nature (genetic adaptation), if any, is required vs. nurture (exposure).

Also keep in mind that Indians also largely only wore leather. Leather is renowned for its great insulative properties.

The other factor is wind exposure. It's easier to stay tolerant of cold when there's no wind. When that wind picks up and starts stripping you of your heat layer, you'll feel it much more even at slightly warmer temps.

I grew up in a part of the country that almost never gets cold and moved to chicago. First two years were rough. Got a (black dyed motorcycle style) leather jacket and learned to dress in less, but tighter layers. Haven't had a problem since. Too many poofy layers is more air that needs to be heated and kept heated by your body. Only times I have an issue is when skin is directly exposed. Even a thin cotton shawl is enough to keep the bodyheat layer more protected.

As I got more used to the winters, I also found it more comfortable to keep the temperatures lower indoors. I get nauseous when I'm outside and it's freezing and I step into a store or building that is heated above mid 70's. That constant warm up, cool down, warm up cycle of walking in and out of buildings in the city is more taxing than simply dealing with the cold.

With that in mind, I found it more comfortable to walk into my apartment as long as it was mostly just warmer than outside rather than the usual indoor temps people are used to. 62 degree (Fahrenheit) indoor average temp is quite easily adjusted to as long as skin isn't exposed elsewhere on the body.

Now I find I don't sleep as well if my pillow gets too warm. I have a pillow on my bed that I swap out with the other and when I do, I make sure it touches the wall so it's as cold as it can get when I swap them out again.

I did this in my late 20s, early 30s... so I don't think it would be a case of not being able to do this if you were older, training yourself to acclimate to colder temperatures.

Have a google for chillow, it's a product for having a cold pillow for longer.

Oops. That's "tall tales", not "tall tails", of course, but too late for me to edit.

What's funny is that the article never suggests that the simplest solution would be to go swimming (Phelps example) instead of resorting to things like the cold vest or sleeping without a blanket.

And swimming has more advantages than just being cold : it provides your cardio in a non damaging way (contrary to running) and you gain a valuable skill that can save your life.

This is actually a very good point. Other studies found the general damage done by sedentary lifestyles lived by lots of us is irreversible and I don't think thee are lots of studies showing negative effects of light excercise in general. So trying to cope with obesity by not moving but instead just sitting and having cold (not sure if the article literally suggests it but there were definitely hints towards it) certainly goes against that.

I think the idea is that this worked for Phelps because he was in cold water all day, and this is what the vest is trying to replicate in a way that will fit in more easily with most peoples' lives.

I agree, with one caveat:

I've read in the past that being cold from swimming tends to make your body think that you are in need of calories.

So casual swimmers will eat their workout at the vending machine, the one conveniently placed near the pool exit.

That's what happens with any exercise or anything that uses calories. Your body is meant to survive anything. So any caloric expenditure is met with higher feelings of hunger.

Though while exercising, most people feel a suppression of hunger.

Could you please elaborate on running being damaging?

Running, especially when heavy or overweight puts a lot of stress on your joints, most notably the knees. The effect is worse when you're untrained and don't have a proper technique. Swimming does not, since your body weight is suspended by the water.

It messes with your knees and heel. When you take a step during a run, your leg lands with your entire body slamming into it.

There are ways to run that are less damaging (better equipment, like socks and shoes, or using the technique where you largely only make contact using the balls of your feet), but it doesn't change the fact of a shock happening.

That said, it's unlikely to be so damaging to you as to outweigh its benefits. Swimming is better mostly because water has less resistance than the ground, and pushing off isn't really a shock to anything.

Less the resistance than the ground, and more than the air.

> There are ways to run that are less damaging

I looked into this quite a bit some years ago and found no research to suggest more cushioned shoes, less cushioned shoes, pronation-control shoes, barefoot running, etc. have any effect on injury rates. Are there recent studies or info that I missed on this topic?

> it's unlikely to be so damaging to you as to outweigh its benefits

It's even possible that all the shock and load bearing of running /is/ a benefit.

Running is associated with acute injuries of all sorts, but as others have commented does not correlate with osteoarthritis or other long term injuries.

It's actually an often repeated myth that running is bad for your joints/knees etc[1].

General medical consensus is that moderate running is an indicator for better joint health.

[1] http://www.npr.org/2011/03/28/134861448/put-those-shoes-on-r...

"There are caveats, though, especially for people who have suffered significant knee injury or are overweight."

Sure, in moderation it's a small net gain, but few are the correct weight, without injury, and run in moderation.

Note: Simply being tall can have the same effect as being overweight and shorter. The knee supports 3d volume on a 2d surface so it has scaling issues. There is a significant peak load difference between a 5'2" runner and a 6'2" runner.

Edit: "We know from many long-term studies that running doesn't appear to cause much damage to the knees," vs. "In one study, Swedish researchers found that exercise, including jogging, may even be beneficial." So, at best "if you have a relatively normal knee and you're jogging five to six times a week at a moderate pace, then there's every reason to believe that your joints will remain healthy." Which is hardly the same things as saying running is not harmful.

This seems like a decent review:

http://www.jaoa.osteopathic.org/content/106/6/342.full

"Is there a causal relationship between running and osteoarthritis? The current data are based on small studies, and their results are often unclear."

I've previously come across the cited studies by Lane, "at 9-year follow-up, the results were the same; there was no difference in the incidence and progression of knee and hip osteoarthritis in runners and nonrunners", but had not seen Sohn's comparison of college varsity runners and swimmers, "There is no association between moderate longdistance running and the future development of osteoarthritis. Furthermore, the evidence suggests that neither heavy mileage nor the number of years running are contributory to the future development of osteoarthritis."

On the other hand, Schmitt et al found that "Osteoarthritis of the knee joint is rare in former elite marathon runners. The risk of osteoarthritis of the hip joint seems to be higher than in control subjects who do not engage in much sport."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16932832

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2667877/

"The current evidence in persons who participate in elite sports activity, particularly in sporting groups susceptible to joint injury, suggests that these groups are at increased risk for OA as a result of their participation, but it is unclear whether participation in the absence of injury is harmful. "

Weight and other health issues are a massive and hard to control for Confounding variable in most of these studies. Osteoarthritis causes (weight, injury, bone misalignments etc.) are also likely to inhibit running. At the same time running increases the risk of injury.

Note: Most of these studies are also talking about jogging not running as running is shown to cause damage.

However, from your link "Researchers22 found a significantly higher incidence of osteoarthritis in men (aged 20–49 years) who were involved in high levels of physical activity (ie, walking or running more than 20 miles per week). "

The article never talks either about "getting cold" (and being sick). How does it work? Each time I spend a few hours in the cold (e.g. at work in Sydney in summer, they keep the A/C at 19C), I feel like I have a mini-fever for 24hrs. Is it a natural reaction of the body? Does it go away after adaptation?

I occasionally have the same issue: At work all day feeling cold (normally on a Monday as the heating is not on during the weekend) and then I feel like I'm getting a cold, I'm glad it's not just me.

Would love to know why this happens though?

I always figured it was somehow psychosomatic.

http://www.webmd.com/allergies/features/the-weather-wreaking...

May not be the correct answer for you, but it's true for me. In the winter when the temperature has dropped suddenly I often need to take a decongestant for a few days and then I'm fine for the rest of it. Crud in your sinuses (for me at least) caused by allergies (grasses in my case) or weather can trigger a low-grade fever and other cold-like symptoms. It's worse since I work in a heated (too hot, IMO) office and then have to go back out into the cold. This was less of a problem when I worked in a more "frugal" office where the temperature (while still warmer inside) wasn't so extremely different from outside.

Do you wear a long-sleeve shirt? I used to have this problem when I wore t-shirts and worked in an air-conditioned office. Now I wear a long-sleeve button-down shirt with an undershirt and I feel much more comfortable every day.

That is the adaptation. When it's too cold, your body turns up its heat production and it kind of feels like a fever at first.

>What's funny is that the article never suggests that the simplest solution would be to go swimming

or how about some thinking/learning - brain consumes a lot of energy when it works. I mean when it really works - to save energy we push (as result of training/repetition) many things into habit, automatic response territory and thus most of the times our brain doesn't actually "work".

I wonder whether thinking harder does burn more energy.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calo... seems to say, not really.

the facts in the article can be interpreted in many ways. Anyway, i was saying it based on my lifelong observations and personal experiences and understanding of how brain works. In short - i've never seen a fat mathematician :)

In my experience, it's not likely because they expend calories thinking, but that they get so emersed into their work, they forget to eat :) lot of good programming folks seem to be the same way

Agree; but note the study of the Swiss swimming team Limmat Sharks on fat reduction and cardio:

"The results suggest that in terms of beneficial effects on body composition, there is no difference between aerobic exercise on land and in water as long as intensity, duration and frequency of workouts are comparable. [..] However, swimming as the exclusive sport could be problematic, because the small load on the skeleton is not favourable to prevent osteoporosis"

http://limmatsharks.com/Swimming%2BFatReduction/index.html http://www.limmatsharks.com/Fatburner/

Generally, the articles of Limmat Sharks are great reads on swimming. I can't recommend them enough.

Why would you say that running is damaging?

People's reactions to the cold always astonish me. I spend a lot of time in Canada and Hong Kong. In Canada, it can be 12 C (~53F) and lots of people will be wearing t-shirts and jeans, and it isn't too uncommon to see the odd person wearing shorts. In Hong Kong, 12 C necessitates a cold weather warning, and a fair amount of people die when it drops to 10 C (50F).

It would be interesting to try this article's suggestion of 55F offices out in various parts of the world. I would hypothesize that you'd see really different results, and that 55F as a "weight loss" temperature would probably only work in northern climates.

I just got back from Southern China yesterday visiting my wife's mom. And it was cold...I mean, it was only 7C out, but there was absolutely no indoor heating at all. It actually felt warmer outside than inside (and probably was since it took the sun a while to warm up the concrete). It was unbareable even with a kotatsu.

I am so happy to be back in freezing but well-heated Beijing. I can wear shorts in -10C weather, but no indoor heating at all will beat me down pretty quickly.

In my experience, comparing absolute temperatures across different climate/countries does not give the full picture.

I used to live in Paris where it felt warmish when the temperature was around 10C. Now that I live in Hong Kong, 10C feels freezing cold, as you pointed out.

Maybe it's related to humidity ? Or maybe it's because there is no indoor heating at all, as seanmcdirmid noted.

Humidity makes a huge difference.

>I used to live in Paris where it felt warmish when the temperature was around 10C. Now that I live in Hong Kong, 10C feels freezing cold, as you pointed out.

expectations and clothes. In Russia i never wore shorts in 10C which i do in CA (even at 5C :) In Russia it would be jeans, good boots, t-shirt, sweater, good jacket. In CA - shorts, light sneakers, t-shirt, light jacket. Getting caught in SF at cable car stop summer evening without jacket - you get to freeze like it would be -25C with wind in St Petersburg :)

Also consider the constructions of the buildings. Perth, Western Australia can be a very hot place, but during nights and winters I hear from people visiting here that it feels far colder than their homelands which reach lower temperatures. All our houses are built with concrete flooring due to being built on sand - the concrete acts like chunk of ice under the house.

Humidity.

50f in San Fran can feel downright chilly.

50f in Chicago is shorts weather.

"Maybe it's related to humidity"

Dew point. When you sweat your skin will rapidly drop toward the dew point. Where I live it varies thru the year from below 0 to about 80, always below the air temp of course. When you don't sweat your skin approaches the sometimes much warmer air temp.

30 degrees air and 30 degrees dew point right after a snowfall is sweater and pants time. This morning the dew point is only 10 degrees so I have to wear a coat although I didn't need to zip it up. No wind helps.

A highly effective way to get killed doing winter sports is to build up a massive sweat and then completely stop moving before drying out... An air temp of 10 degrees is laughable and more or less comfortable if you're not sweating, but a dew point of 10 degrees if you're all sweaty will quite effectively give you hypothermia and kill you. Or the hypothermia will make you stupid, and then everyone will wonder why the heck a smart guy was walking along the cliff edge etc. Sweating in the cold is very dangerous. I usually don't wear a coat while I snowshoe hike (although I carry it in the backpack), wearing gloves and a hat and goggles but no coat always feels weird for the first time each season but you get used to it quickly.

Don't forget one thing though: Canadian homes are built to resist the cold and they are usually well-insulated.

Hong Kong, by comparison, is probably one of the worse places when it comes to thermal insulation. When it's 12 outside, it's not far from being the same inside.

It always amazed me how such an energy-hungry place, where electricity is expensive, is built so cheaply that insulation doesn't factor at all. Energy-efficiency is totally unknown when it comes to housing.

I'm yet to see a double-glazed window pane in Hong Kong.

No, Canadian homes are not built to resist the cold. They have the same silly 3cm cardboard walls that American houses have. This was very stunning for me coming from a country where the temperature rarely drops below 0 degrees Celsius. I have learnt that the Canadians only feel like they are being eco-friendly because the only place they are comparing themselves with is the US. I mean: a remote control for your car's motor so you can have it pre-heat, half of the people driving around in pick up trucks or the toilets having about a million litres of water in them.

Effective R value and the air barrier are a lot more important than thickness or material (of course material choice factors into R value, but better materials generally hit higher R values at lesser thickness...).

Modern building codes require a vaguely reasonable R value.

>It always amazed me how such an energy-hungry place, where electricity is expensive, is built so cheaply that insulation doesn't factor at all. Energy-efficiency is totally unknown when it comes to housing.

I agree that it's absurd. Switch off the aircon in summer in any of the apartments I've lived in there, and it's back at 33C within 10 minutes. After several years I finally rebuilt a place from the concrete up with proper insulation and double-glazed windows and the difference is astonishing.

The amount of wasted energy is depressing. Not so surprising though when the same groups that own the larger housing developers also own the power company.

How cold it feels is also dependent on humidity. A very humid climate means that it feels much colder than it actually is.

In the deep desert, temperatures change fast. I once spent some time in a desert environment that went from 120F (49C) to 50F (10C) in a matter of a couple weeks. Where I come from 50F is light jacket weather if it's windy at night. But in the desert, after having become accustomed to hair dryer temperatures all day, I was freezing.

I mean shivering, teeth chattering cold. It was the most bizarre feeling. I could feel the air temperature, and it was fine, but my body simply couldn't keep up with the sudden change and I didn't get used to the new temperature for a few weeks.

I played soccer outside on Dec 26 in shorts and a soccer jersey in a balmy 6C here in Toronto. Would not have been possible without the sun shining right on me.

6C doesn't strike me as that cold for playing football in t-shirt and shorts. Actually, compared to most school football matches I can recall that seems quite civilized...

[It's been a while, so my memories of school PE do seem to becoming more like something from Ripping Yarns with each passing year.]

I live in Sweden where -C is very common at winters. -25-30 is considered very cold even by us though. Nasal mucus freezes and skin "bites".

What? I didn't that your nasal mucus froze. I thought your body temp would keep it from freezing. How does it feel? Is it a beginning sign of frostbite?

I grew up in rural North Dakota, here's what happens. You walk outside and inhale, and your boogers will immediately freeze in your nose. It feels.... odd, I've no way to explain it properly, it honestly is something one has to experience. The general rule is below about -10C or thereabout you blow your nose before going outside. That or you're going to wait for it to thaw and then blowing your nose.

Doesn't have anything to do with frostbite that I'm aware of.

When its that cold for shits I would take a full cup of boiling/hot water and throw it in the air. Making snow is fun.

Relevant research:

* Cold acclimation recruits human brown fat and increases nonshivering thermogenesis http://www.jci.org/articles/view/68993

* Calorie-burning triggered by cold temperatures can be achieved biochemically – without the chill http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2014/06/114951/immune-system-molecu...

I was very sick as a child: asthma, neurodermitis, a lot of allergies etc.

At one point when I was 8 or so I thought that it really sucks that I have to be careful about how, when and where to play, run etc. so I decided to ignore all my symptoms until they get too bad to ignore.

I also started to shower cold (or rather: end every shower cold). And i "taught myself" to sleep without a blanket. It really just feels weird, and after two or 3 times you are used to it.

I'm almost 30 now, i'm rather temperature-insensitive, which means than I have no problem going out in a t-shirt in winter, but also can do sports in the hot summer-sun. I also, on lab-tests still have all my allergies, but don't feel any of it.

It's very useful, and awesome what you can do with your mind :).

Addendum: I think I learned something like autogenous training that way. There are times in winter when it's really cold (10 Fahrenheit or so) and I start shaking. Then I think about it and "just" stop cramping and instead "relax into the cold". Then suddenly I'm warm :)

While I do agree that what the mind can do is amazing, I don't think fighting reflexes like shaking is a good idea. Shaking is a way for your body to warm up, because it is starting to be too cold to function "normally". While it is definitely not a severe symptom of hypothermia, it should not be ignored.

doing that is one of my first memories. i realized i could just let myself be cold.

When I was about 10-12 y.o. I realy enjoyed cold. And it's kind of easy to get some snow in Russia. But then I've got pyelonephritis for a long time, so my parents did their best to keep me away from long direct cold exposure. Like, you know, don't go out without scarf, skating and skiing in wool socks etc.

When it comes to ice swimming, most of swimmers are overweight... Seems like thier calories are not buring due to cold. Or, perhaps, they've got too much of calories.

Googled a bit about ice swimming. This is exactly how it looks like here http://s.inyourpocket.com/img/russia/Moscow/ice-swimming_b93...

The fat insulates them from the cold.

Systems are complex... working out in the cold burns more calories, but your body tries to eat more food to compensate.

(see http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/12/24/exercise-to-lose-we... )

After reading this article, I thought of gifting Dr. Wayne Hayes' ice vest to a friend. I googled Hayes and I found his website: http://coldshoulderweightloss.com.

I found his website shockingly bad. I wonder how anyone could buy a personal care product from a website that looks like that.

It's surprising how web presence can still be taken for granted. Especially when their website is a point of sale for their product.

Wait, a magical new weight-loss scheme based on some seemingly counterintuitive yet simple principal might be a scam? What a shock!

Why this junk is on the top of the HN front page I don't know.

Perhaps because it's not counterintuitive? Staying warm in a cold environment must require the consumption of energy.

I know an 84 year old man in the prime of life, he speaks 37 languages, five of them nearly natively (including three that I happen to speak at a high level from my study and travels, and in which I have conversed with him), and is learning more every day. He is the personal language consultant of a billionaire, and recently picked up a new language fluently for him in less than a year. He also made impressive strides in an uncommon language I speak due to my family which is notoriously difficult, and has learned most of the dictionary and can read a newspaper as well as converse fluently. (The above information means there's a good chance someone here might recognize him, though the overlap with startups would only be via the billionaire.)

I asked him what his secret is for being so sprightly. He said, "I don't have one." Then on reflection he says, "Oh, I take a cold shower every day."

Of course 1 data point is not a study. But you might try it for a year and see if anything happens :)

Don't try that with an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle or if you have a heart condition.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2010/01/18/the-james-bond-show...

So, I heard it stated that when someone has no rebuttal, instead of refuting a poster's point they will ask for references.

This isn't why I'm asking. It's just that I just would like to know if you have a better reference, i.e. where did you hear or learn this. Your article is from 'the art of manliness', and unlike the earlier sections from it on benefits, the section you cite doesn't actually contain any references to medicine at all. It just seems to be the author's speculation.

I performed the following Google query:

https://www.google.com/search?q=are+cold+showers+harmful

so I guess I'm saying I don't believe your facts, but am happy to be proved wrong if you happen to know or can find something I didn't. I think this is a civil response that leaves it quite open to my being wrong.

Thank you.

Certain old men prefer to rise at dawn, taking a cold bath and a long walk with an empty stomach and otherwise mortifying the flesh. They then point with pride to these practices as the cause of their sturdy health and ripe years; the truth being that they are hearty and old, not because of their habits, but in spite of them. The reason we find only robust persons doing this thing is that it has killed all the others who have tried it. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

I'm not really sure this is revolutionary or even "news" when high school wrestling coaches have been telling kids to sleep with their bedroom windows open to cut a couple pounds for decades?

(no idea if that works, always wrestled above my weight)

My teammates would take ice baths to burn calories routinely.

I don't think he'll sell many ice vests to women - they always seem to feel the cold. The women at work are always rugged up, while the guys (ok, all the guys do a lot of exercise) are mostly in shorts and t-shirts. In bed, my wife has a couple of duvets on, and I'm on the top of the bed with nothing on, sweating away. Maybe, based on the theories in this article, women would find it easier to lose weight if they let themselves get cold. But they already are.

Me too, but just wait until your wife is pregnant... Then you're shivering in a ball and she's sweating with the window open.

They're cold because they're more used to dressing up warm. If they let themselves be constantly cold, their metabolisms would eventually increase to heat them.

My wife says it's because women get bladder and urinary tract infections much more easily than men.

FWIW, I moved from sunny Greece to somewhat cold Austria at the age of (almost) 18. In the following 2 years, I gained quite a bit of body hair (more than typical in the family), which I (now) attribute to the cold temperatures I had to endure during the first winters due to poor heating and light clothing. My point is: perhaps the body has more tricks up its sleeve than just to turn up the heating by burning more calories, not all of them as desirable as we'd hope. Then again, it might have been normal for my age and not related to climate, although I had plenty of facial hair very early (at 14) and generally didn't develop/grow much after 16.

Needless to say, I wasn't able to reverse the process with proper heating. I lose hair in all the wrong spots only!

If you are male, don't fret about the hair. As long as you refrain from comb over, you'll be fine.

I'm not sure I would do any of this, but it's certainly an interesting writeup. I particularly enjoyed the part about watching Michael Phelps, and realizing he was burning extra calories because he was spending time in cool water every day.

I recall reading an article, though, where Michael Phelps admitted he didn't eat as much as was reported. The story about the gargantuan amounts he ate was something the media loved, and something that helped build a "mythology" around him, but even Phelps said it wasn't true.

12,000 is on the high end of extreme athlete caloric intake, but not totally outlandish. There are many stories about Iditarod mushers throwing whole sticks of butter into their food for the fat, and a study of one musher showed average consumption of about 9,000 calories per day through the race [1] (with weight loss indicating a deficit of ~2k/day). A quick google says Tour de France racers consume in the range of 6-9k calories per day.

[1] http://bit.ly/1xtaSKi

Appalachian Trail through-hikers can consume 5000 calories a day and still lose notable weight on the trail.

30-50% more than the known extremes, looks outlandish to me.

Ranulph Fiennes and Dr Mike Stroud were burning 11,000 calories a day when they were manhauling up a glacier in the Antarctic:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/sep/17/ranulph-fiennes-an...

As someone who was a grad student in an apartment with poor heating: it's not worth it. Eat appropriately, and exercise. The bloody cold numbs your brain too. I also remember reading, though I can't find a good source now, that programmers perform better when warmer (until a point, maybe 27 degrees C).

Besides, exercising feels good, while this feels bad. Might as well enjoy yourself.

My Cambridge (UK) house regularly got to 8-12 C in winter. I only turned on the heat for guests. It's not too bad, if you get used to it. Running barefoot in the snow can be fun, too. (But I wouldn't want to have to stand in one place.)

Would like to see a source for that claim. 27C is pretty hot and multiple studies have found that temperature to be suboptimal for classroom performance (which may not by indicative of programmer productivity, I guess).

"... the performance of two numerical and two language-based tests was significantly improved when the temperature was reduced from 25°C to 20°C (77°F to 68°F)."

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10789669.2007.103...

It's probably this source that I misremembered (the numbers are close enough for me to have made a mistake). That explains why I couldn't find anything. Thanks.

I feel like all this talk is nonsense and people should simply work at the temperature they feel comfortable at. Offices should be at a neutral temperature and provide personal heaters.

I keep my room around 28C during the winter and 35C in the summer. The office I work at is set to 21C. I hate it and feel like I work better when I'm hotter.

I doubt there is a magic number that would have everyone work faster.

You must have a well-built house :-) I feel lucky if any part of my house reaches 20C.

Oh certainly, I didn't mean that there was some magic number. I just wanted to say that obviously temperature extremes don't work. I should never have mentioned that 27 C thing (which was just a misremembered number). It isn't even my own favourite.

20C is ideal, 25C is too hot. In China, they always try cutting the AC back, and I always have to complain about it. It is difficult programming when your arms are sticking to the desk. Also, humidity has a lot to do with it (AC will remove humidity from the air as much as it will cool it).

It depends on the individual.

It depends on the humidity. 25C at 50+% humidity feels pretty bad.

There are quite a few studies that suggest the brain performs better when it's cooler.

Three are discussed here. ("Cool room" was 19 C, "warm room" was 25 C.) http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/warm-weather-makes...

TL;DR: One study suggests ability to recognize spelling and grammar mistakes improves in a cool room. A second study suggests ability to do math and make a correct decision based on it improves in the cool room. The third study suggests people in a warm room prefer to avoid complex cognitive decisions and rely on simpler patters of decision making even when it resulted in inferior choices.

YMMV. Empirically, I focus and perform better when a room is 18 - 19 C (below "room temperature", which seems to be 20 to 22 C). I am Canadian.

I think you're projecting with this. I find 60 degrees F (around 16 degrees C) comfortable and I'm happy and productive working at that temperature. Getting up past 21 or 22 degrees C and I start hating life.

Do you sit or stand (or lie down or walk etc) to work?

Standing, mostly. I used to have a stand-up desk, now I just use my bar-height dining table.

That might explain why you tolerate cold better. Same thing happens to me.

Could be! I hate sitting mostly because I like eating, and I feel like a slug if I'm not at a standing desk after Chipotle.

I'm in Europe. I've been using only (cold) tap water in my house for more than a year. It began with a broken heater in the midst of last year's summer when I decided to postpone buying new one to see how long I can last with cold water. I thought that sooner or later I should catch cold and then I would switch back to using warm water. That summer was hot (up to 35 degree Celsius) and tap water was warm, slowly it began cooling but I didn't feel any difference. When it hit -25 degree outside I was sure that my cold water showers will put me in bed but that never happened. The only inconvenience was (and is) that many hygiene products (shampoos, soaps, and such) work poorly with cold water and it takes more time to properly wash myself. I can't say whether this habit affects my weight or gives any other benefit, but as long as it's not harmful I can't care less.

It's "common folk knowledge" where I live (Poland) that to be healthy you should "temper yourself" - after hot shower you should follow with cold water for a minute or so.

I do this (not each time but often) and I like the feeling after the cold shower ends - air feels warm instead of cold, heart is beating very fast, and it's very refreshing.

It's probably bad idea if you're not healthy to begin with (thermal shock etc), but if you are healthy it's great.

AFAIK, there is no proof that cold showers have an effect on catching cold. And there was plenty of research, for example in the Common Cold Unit (http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2013/09/fighting-the-cold-wa...)

Stay cold, give yourself inflammatory distress, and get cancer. http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/12/18/lab_mice_are...

It's not at all clear that this extends to humans.

>Seven million years of human evolution were dominated by two challenges: food scarcity and cold.

Almost all of that time was spent in Africa. Even during glacial periods, was it ever icy? I don't know much about the paleoclimate, so I'm not sure.

It would be very cold at night... in the deserts

A great deal of Africa can get cold.

Adaptations can happen quite quickly. There are quite a few that the human populations which migrated out of Africa developed shortly afterward in response to new environments. Pale skin and retention of the ability to digest milk past childhood, for example.

Perhaps they should have specified that they were referring to specific populations of humans that evolved in the last few hundred thousand years, then. Seven million years ago, our lineage hadn't even split off from gorillas.

I'm really not sure what "seven million years" actually refers to and it's oddly specific. Past a million years, you're talking about primates, not humans.

It snowed last year here in Africa, South Africa more specifically... It happens once in a blue moon, but other than that it can get really cold here. Just because you think savannah and dry-desert and Egypt when you think of Africa, doesn't mean it can't get cold there.

My understanding is that early humans were substantially closer to the equator than South Africa is, but you could be correct.

If it's raining it's possible to get hypothermia at 50 degrees F.

I'm continually travelling from north to south and I feel a lot more people live healthy by the beach so they look good during the year while up north it's easy to bundle up because it's easy to wear long sleeves all the time.

I've noticed that discussions about the thermodynamics of weight loss almost invariably neglect to mention environmental temperature, focussing instead on diet and exercise. The prevailing paradigm is that exercise "burns calories". But if you look at the actual numbers, the number of calories burned is fairly insignificant compared to basal metabolism; as the article states, running an entire marathon only burns about 2500 calories.

There is research on brown body fat that is developed during cold weather that might have an effect on overweight etc.

https://www.wallenberg.com/kaw/en/research/bodys-brown-fat-w...

Of course. Alpine climbers and mountaineers have known this for decades. They intentionally put on extra fat before big climbs, knowing that it will be nearly impossible to ingest enough calories to keep up with their bodies demands in cold temps.

Throughout the winter my apartment's temperature drops to little above 10°C (f. 50). Some of my windows always stay open. I never turn on the heating, though I sleep with a thick blanket. I don't know if this could ever affect my weight; sleeping is actually comfortable though, the worst part being walking about semi-naked when going to and from the bathroom; when I'm at the computer, chilled hands usually prevent me from using keyboard & mouse effectively though, and I hate wearing gloves.

BTW I'm quite sure Homo Erectus/Abilis etc. mostly lived in Africa, and had fur.

The article talks mostly about weight loss as a benefit. There are also suggestions that cold may improve your immune system. Wim Hof (aka the "Ice man") is exploring that idea[1]. Among other things, he runs marathons in the arctic on bare foot and sits in ice cubes for prolonged periods. He also did a ted talk a while ago. http://www.icemanwimhof.com/en-home

I remember camping when I was younger in the Boy Scouts, and coming home after a weekend trip and always being tired. I always thought that it was due to all of the energy I spent regulating my body temperature in the elements.

Years later, in the military, we would spend 3-14 days in the wilderness for training. I was in much better shape, and would not get tired from simply being outside.

This may be anecdotal, but it seems to lend support to the author's claims.

I can think of some other potential factors that are more likely causes:

- body area/volume. The smaller you are, the easier it is to lose heat. You probably have twice the weight, but only about 30% more body area now.

- I expect you were trained to pay attention to how you dressed in the military, and paid more attention to it than when you were young.

- advancements in clothing technology.

On the other hand, chances are that military training included doing things you should avoid when out in the cold.

The article doesn't mention anything about clinical trials or anything beyond anecdotes and some n=1 experimentation that Cronise did on himself. And yet he has already started selling a product. That is really the sort of thing that needs more testing first, especially if it might have adverse effects as well (hopefully it was tested for safety and efficacy and it is just that the journalist doesn't mention it).

Someone made studies about running in summer or winter? Because if you go out in winter and you are exposure to low temperatures you would burn more calories. I think my Strava is not taking account this factor. Always I'm having same calories burnt in same distance.

Is there any correlation between population obesity and local temperature distribution? That is, are Alaskans generally thinner than Hawaiians and Swedish people thinner than Tunisians (correcting for other factors to the extent that is possible)?

I feel there is probably a little bit of truth to this, but not enough to make a huge difference. Maybe it will help you lose weight a bit faster in combination with eating less, excercise more etc.

Year-round warmth is a modern luxury for people outside the tropics. Plenty of people live in year-round warmth and are lucky to ever feel cool, let alone cold.

I used to run my central heating at 20(68). Then I started working out at the gym every day and now feel comfortable at 17(63).

The southern US and midwest must be seeing all the benefits of cold, considering they keep the AC at about 60F in the summer.

Who keeps the AC at 60F? I live in Georgia and the normal setting is somewhere between 68 and 74. On a hot day, I don't think most people's ACs are even cable of getting the temperature down to 60.

I don't know about summers, but my parents enjoyed only turning on the heaters in winter when it got to maybe 45F indoors. Any colder and it might wake you up in the night, which is tremendously distracting, but aside from that there are no meaningful downsides to just wearing a sweatshirt. But those temperatures probably aren't common outside of Minnesota, Montana, the Dakotas, probably other midwestern areas (I'm in Michigan at the moment and it's bizarrely temperate -- people insisting coats are needed when sweatshirts hardly are).

All I know is that I visit the midwest and south in the summer and when I walk into any indoor space I almost have to put a coat on.

If it's 95F outside and you're dressed for it, when you walk into a 70 degree room, it's gonna be cold.

As someone currently riding a motorcycle West from DC to LA, this makes the weather a bit more bearable.

As all those skinny Eskimos and fat Saharins came attest... People will believe anything.

Not sure how much I agree with this. Turned down heating anyway :)

Nothing sets you up for the day like a cold shower in the morning!

You can also eat less...

You can also not be a physically inactive blob planted in front of a computer 24/7. Not eating excessively and walking are also good places to start.

Yep. Burning calories is great if you're having trouble getting in a caloric deficit. The easier way is to just not give yourself a huge caloric surplus in the first place.

That doesn't work. People eat when they are hungry, if someone is hungry when he doesn't actually need food, he'll still eat.

Telling people not to eat isn't going to work.

For some, small, subset of people it might work. Emotional eaters, or people who make really poor choices of what food. But for most people who are trying to lose weight your advice is useless because it doesn't work.

I agree for many people diets don't work.

For me, I don't buy ready made food and typically my own laziness is the reason I don't eat much.

That's exactly how I keep in shape. Choosing what to eat is already too much effort, let alone making it.

Same as when people are cold they turn up the temperature.

If you want to lose weight, you'll have to go through something unpleasant. Either it's being hungry, exercising a lot, or being cold.

Did anyone else notice the URL? It already says /2015/01 ...

This article is from the January 2015 issue of The Atlantic. They publish their magazine slightly before the start of the month.

The Atlantic-bringing contrarian medical advice to the yuppie masses.

But the Static Electric Shock in winter is terrible...

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