Maybe I'm delusional about my skill and work ethic but I have found that issues of wages are never easily resolved and it's easier to just increase your wages by switching jobs. One startup of ~20 employees and two large companies.
As an employee you're at a built-in disadvantage. Management knows everyone's salaries, you don't. Salaries are a closely guarded secret and they maintain that informational advantage against you. So, you really have to look at industry averages for your role and decide if you are not being appropriately compd.
Now, about mgmt valuing you and not letting you go. First, NEVER threaten to leave. They may preempt that and cut you, or you'll go on a list of troublemakers. Managers have lists of people in their heads they would like to cut if given the opportunity. It's the people that get cut whenever there is a layoff, when teams have to be downsized.
It's important to understand mgmt's perspective. They have dozens of people in slots to get things done. No one person is indispensable, especially at the staff level where most programmers are. A slot goes open, they fill it. I've worked with managers with the biggest hearts, good guys, not mean spirited or unappreciative of their employees at all. They will not necessarily blink twice when an employee says they'll walk.
I would say, if you have a good case you're under compd, or unhappy. NICELY go to mgmt. If they won't do anything, get an offer from another company. Then you have the choice to just leave, or go back to your company and you have leverage and then its going to essentially be an ultimatum to keep you. But be very nice and polite about it.
Not sure about other places but everywhere I've been, this is simply official policy but in reality, employees talk. While it's not always exact, I can pretty accurately say who gets paid what with a fairly slim margin of error. Keeping salaries a secret seems more for the benefit of the company who may or may not be unfairly compensating their employees for not-so-good reasons (not saying there isn't other benefits). That bit has without a doubt been key in determining, since salaries can greatly vary between companies, regions, etc.
> Now, about mgmt valuing you and not letting you go. First, NEVER threaten to leave.
Agreed, and this is certainly not a tactic in my arsenal because I generally like where I work and respect my managers. I have gone outside to get offers and came back with that as leverage in case things didn't work out, and that's how I ended up where I am today. That seems to be the best option since you never quite know what is going on in management's head once they know you're unhappy.
Honestly I think in the case of the larger companies, managers have their hands tied by upper management or HR and aren't really willing to put their skin on the line, something I can't really blame them for for obvious reasons.
You're there to fill a slot (do one specific job) - even more likely in big co than in small co. but the smarter someone is - the more difficult to keep them motivated. So the smarter/better employee is more likely to be unhappy.
I think this is where having non-technical people managing technical people is a mistake. The technical manager is going to empathize much better with their staff and help them stay interested during those periods when a smart person becomes bored with their job. There's ways to do it. Special projects for instance, but it depends on the person. That's where there's no cookie-cutter answer and the manager actually has to make some effort and do their job.
Unfortunately, in many larger companies (with hundreds of employees), there are so many layers of managerial bullshit that prevent that. People who actually know the employee who wants to leave (direct managers) often don't have power to decide the salary etc, and people who have that power are at the other end of company and they are not concerned about the productivity, etc., just making spreadsheets green.
I know a large company, where pay raises are almost non existent, and it's normal for employees to leave in 6-12 months. Needless to say, the productivity there is pretty bad.
if I see someone in this position who works for me, I immediately start looking for their replacement.
Once my living expenses went up and a 15% raise would've absolutely kept me with the company if I'd been given it when I asked, because it was the difference between making ends meet and not. I left the company because I had no other choice when I found a higher paying position.
In every other position, it's been cultural. If you can't make your employees happy with money, maybe you should think about your management style, your communication with said employees, and the culture as a whole.
>>> very short term relief from the real reasons
Unless the real reason is that the employee believes that he is being strongly underpaid. I'd define strongly underpaid as a situation, when an employee is certain that he could get (or already got) multiple job offers with 20%+ higher compensation.
Because at the end of the day, vast majority of people work to earn money. Some employers try to make you feel that you are changing the world and what not, trying to say that it's not all about money, but well, it largely is about money. Some jobs are enjoyable where compensation is not extremely important (meaning that an employee would leave only for a significantly better deal), but I'd say that it's a rather rear case.
At the end of the day, it's a free market. We all have a price tag :)
This policy seems to attract and keep the wrong kind of employees -- those you're willing to play the ransom game from time to time.
I think assuming that someone isn't invested is a faulty assumption. If I had made up my mind, I wouldn't give you a chance at all. I would just take the offer and put in my notice. At the very least, someone who goes back and gives their employer a chance to meet an offer is doing things respectably and at most has some value in their current employer, enough so to give them a chance.
But the rationale sounds a bit weird to me:
"they're not invested anymore."
How could an employee be invested in a company if they've not actually invested? This sounds like an employee should have some sort of weird feudal allegiance for the corporation they work for.
(this turned out a bit long and ranty; my takeaway is just, I've run into too many situations where telling my employer I was unhappy/underpaid resulted in basically a "nothing we can do", and my switching to a higher paying base job)
I was in a slightly similar situation at some point a long time ago. Did a 3-month "internship" as part of my degree at a real business. It was a token salary at that point, and I was fine even when the 3-month internship was extended for another three months. After that three months, I got a 10% raise, and when I questioned it I was given a cheesy response by a just-below-ceo-level person of "10% is a huge raise" as if ignoring the base salary that the 10% was adding onto.
Being a fairly shy, non-confrontational person I agreed. 6 months later when the year was over, and it came time to further renew the "contract", I told them I'm not signing diddly. That's when the story changed and they tripled the salary to a very good entry-level point. Two things: One, I made my point clear that they knew they would be losing a very productive and useful member of their team. And two, I spoke to someone a little lower down the hierarchy that ended up vouching and making my case to the "higher ups".
Even if his/her hands were tied higher up, I would have considered leaving on this basis alone: it shows nobody at the company is willing to look after your interests.
However, you must have agreed your salary at some point?
As illustrated in the article, the start of the job is the most opportune time to negotiate. Once you have started on a low salary, employer can safely assume you don't need a high salary and has little reason to pay you more. (You confirmed that this was the correct decision for them by deciding to wait it out)
My conclusion is that you'll now likely always be behind on your salary for as long as you stay with this company.
Yes, I did agree to the salary, but as that I was coming from an academic position (and was honestly/still am relatively new to shopping around for jobs) the salary seemed like a vast improvement and I didn't think to dig deep into actual level.
Thanks (to other child posters as well) for your thoughts.
(to answer some side posts as well; I didn't mean to come across as having excessively many years experience, but that I was just not a college hire and hope I didn't mislead. This introspection also doesn't preclude looking for other options simultaneously, and I've certainly learned my lesson about asking more of some sorts of questions during my offer.)
I'm in management, and if one of my employees came to me and said that, I would definitely hear him out and do whatever I could to make it right. Even if I didn't feel he deserved a raise at that time, I would tell him what I felt he needed to work on in order to earn one.
But if someone came to me with another offer in hand, I would be extremely unlikely to make a counter offer. At that point it is just too late.
And on the other hand, if you are unhappy with where you work or the people you work with, and generally hate your job, but are seeking more money as consolation for your complaints, you're probably better off just going out and finding a new job, because more money alone won't fix your unhappiness for very long.
Exactly. I don't understand asking for a counter offer at all. Even if you get one, you will be tagged as someone who's looking to leave and chances are, you will be replaced pretty soon.
Probably the only exception would be if you have some skills and knowledge which makes you very hard and expensive to replace, and both you and the employer know it.
All I wanted was to have someone above me, an engineering manager or CTO, to help me fill the gaps in my education, but have been largely out on my own working on mission critical projects. While I have learned a ton from my mistakes, I have taken the brunt of all of them, many which I feel a superior could have spotted and steered me away from.
So the sane option is to keep your mouth shut and code. Code like your life depends on it.
Appreciate that you have the freedom to move jobs, not everyone has the luxury.