A new drug costs $1,125 per pill and is about to break sales records
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Some interventions are "cheap" per person, but have an NNT (number needed to treat) of >100. In other words, 100+ people need to be treated (and paid for) just to prevent one bad event. Other treatments are "cheap" per-year, but have to be taken for years/decades.
Indeed in this case, the new treatment course is 8 weeks instead of 12, so an increased cost per-pill can still make sense economically.
A good analogy would be to say that since the US gov't created the internet, Google shouldn't be charging much money at all for its services.
EDIT: It appears that the discovery of sofosbuvir (Sovaldi) was done at a private company.[1] Of course it never would have been discovered without the work of NIH funded research, but it's unfair to say the cost of R&D was born by the public.
[1]http://www.chem.wisc.edu/deptfiles/chem345-gellman/Sp13/Anti...
Gilead paid a massive amount to buy out Pharmasset with the plan of recouping the elevated buyout costs by charging a huge sum for Solvadi. They could have paid much less to buy out Pharmasset and charged far less for the drug, but chose profit over any other interest. Pharmasset had been planning to sell Sovaldi (and the new drug) for a tiny fraction of what Gilead is now charging.
The new drug, Harvoni, is a refinement of Sovaldi Pharmasset was working on. While Gilead is already fairly close to recouping their buyout money, they are charging even more for Harvoni.
The costs are being taken from the public in that many Hep. C patients are too poor to have insurance so Medicaid is giving a huge amount of cash to Gilead, though the initial research grants were only around $1 mil.
Whether a drug cost $1 or $1 billion to develop, the seller/marketer will try to charge whatever the market can bear to maximize revenue (which could still result in a loss). They aren't trying to recoup $1.1 or $1.1b respectively, they're going for the max in either case.
What do you mean? They paid $11B for PharmAsset. Then they had to spend more money to get Sovaldi through phase 3 clinical trials, then they had to spend money to get ready to launch the drug, etc, etc.
Right now they've made ~$10B on Sovaldi. That's gross, not net. Take out all the costs of those sales and it's like around 30-50%. So they've made $3-5B in profit, but spent $15B-$20B to get the drug to market.
They aren't even close to breaking even yet.
Second, while the costs are considerable, expense is not out of line with many other treatments that are not making the headlines. Check into the costs of renal transplantation. And my wife recently had a cataract replaced, a commonplace procedure, the final bill was >$5000.
The issue is the real total costs of treating vs. not treating the disease. It's necessary to take into account the costs of doctor visits, medications, disability, loss of productivity, increased likelihood of illness among family members due to stress, among many other factors.
If a patient can be restored to adequate functionality, and after the Hep C treatment require no more than routine health care, the $84K might in fact be a bargain.
Until we get it clear that we must consider the true total costs of fully treating vs. not treating an illness, we will never be able to make rational decisions about structuring a health care system.
Unless proven otherwise, I'm convinced the system with the lowest total cost is providing care that patients actually need. We only make matters worse by the focus on "cutting health care costs" vs. reducing the total economic burden of illness.
this is a CURE of a longstanding disease, a disease which cuts off years of life expectancy of it victims.
there are more of them incoming, Hep C soon have a multitude of awesome drugs covering it. competition means drug prices will come down. the current massive price is a blip. at the very worst until the patent expires.
there is even more, cooler stuff in the pipelines right now. there is a leukemia drug that goes after a rare form of it - with survival rates in its patients now at 95+%. think about what this means.
after a glut, modern medicinal research has kicked into high gear. the FDA has a fast track program now. 10 years from now we'll be living in a very different world.
Only if you are rich enough to afford it. That is where the outrage comes from - in most of the world healthcare and a right to life is considered a human right. In the US, current IP rights and drug policy will enable the exploitation of anyone who gets any major disease for all their are worth and then you can hang them out to die without treatment.
It isn't the fault of the drug manufacturers though, they are profit seeking and work in their investors interests, who gave millions over years or decades and expect returns. You can and should blame the legal framework that prevents free market drug manufacturing through monopoly patents that lets people die because they cannot afford new drugs to cure their ailments.
It's also possible to imagine a system that does the good one without the bad one.
Treatment : not a huge cost (esp. not per-patient), but has to be bourne a billion times over. Extremely expensive in total (far, far more than research, but ...). Even tiny cuts will result in massive protests (see Europe every few weeks since 2009 or so). Various interests with large amount of people want to see this cost going up : docters, medical personnel, patients.
Getting public money to do healthcare will result in next to no research, and ever more, ever less effective treatment. This is not to say there won't be advancements, just really, really slow ones. Because nobody really sees the potential (or sees it as bad to some extent, e.g. medical personnel) nobody will even miss the research. Also, people kind of like that only universities do the research, but never, ever bring drugs to patients, and only very rarely do they bring treatments to patients.
Getting private money to healthcare runs afoul of one of the basic axioms of the free market : choice and competition. In medicine there is, in quite a few cases, no choice (as illustrated above. Hep C infected ? You have 2 choices : $100k or $100k, or death of course).
It doesn't seem, economically speaking, that you can do both.
Even if the FDA provided a more efficient process, it would still cost hundreds of millions and take a decade to develop drugs like these. In what scenario should all of these scientists be working for free? And the equipment makers, and their employees; and on down the chain it goes.
The only sane approach in the socialized medicine world, would be for the government to offer a one-time buyout for such breakthrough drugs.
If your theory worked so well, socialized medicine countries would produce the most drug innovation and breakthroughs, their science and production would dwarf the US to such an immense degree it would put every pharma and biotech company in the US out of business rapidly. And yet, nothing of the sort has happened. Quite the opposite, the US has been the center of the pharma & biotech world for decades.
The rich always subsidize breakthroughs, and their subsidization makes the next iterations affordable for the masses. The same pattern holds true in nearly everything.
Patents are not the issue at all. Without patents the people who die because they can't afford health care would still be dead. But so would everyone else who was saved by the drug, which includes those people in other countries you mention, and people who benefit a decade later after the patent expires.
the manufacturer has earned his right to those patents through original research. much unlike any other industry, pharma needs to prove its product are indeed working and safe. this is not sugar water. real science, to the core.
the failure lies in the process afterwards. how healthcare is disbursed, how it is allocated. especially in the US. if a country negotiates a price, as a single payer, everything looks quite different.
and curing Hep C? it is cheaper overall, in the longterm, to have productive tax payers who live a long, healthy life. paying net in, rather than needing constant care.
big hope: alzheimers as the next big target. cancers will take longer, so many things lurking in that bucket term.
I get that these very expensive pills are sort of "miracle cures" and the price is intended to reflect that fact and cover the high costs of development and all that, but this is a fundamentally broken system. I don't know what the world needs to do here, but this is just crazy.
http://www.cff.org/aboutCFFoundation/NewsEvents/11-19-Expans...
(I guess you mean Ivacaftor, the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation sold their royalty rights for $3.3 billion.)
To a large extent, the insurance companies are setting the prices on these drugs (getting charged whatever the max they will pay). I think part of the solution might be somewhat counter intuitive, to throw even more resources at the early stage research, with the hope that there is more competition by the time things make it to patients.
Short of gene therapy, addressing the defective protein is pretty much going to be done with drugs, so I don't find it particularly telling that they are putting resources there. CFF does seem to be involved in clinical care (but I'm not informed enough to figure out how much of that is self promotion and how much is substantive).
Anyway, the main point I had intended was that the price isn't just a function of what the company wants it to be, the buyers have to be willing to pay it (which sounds gross when talking about health care, but national health systems and insurance companies do worry some about whether treatments are worth what they cost).
This is an odd comment. The drug in question, Kalydeco, is the first drug that actually reserves some of the defect that causes CF.
How is coming up with such a drug not improving CF care?
Edit: And that is before we even get into the controversies I have seen on CF lists about them possibly spin-doctoring their data in order to get the stock price up or some such (I honestly didn't pay too much attention).
If India is smart, they can turn it into well organized medical tourism. Come and see India, get cured, and save $60k.
I would greatly welcome another option where governments or the public funded more medicines then licensed them cheaply.
These countries can't afford to pay for such investment. The capital imbalance is just huge.
Here's my take on this: any drug that is developed by country A has to sell that drug at a rate related to countries B's GDP ratio to A, or allow an open generic license to country B. Thus, should a firm decide to charge $1000 a pill in the US, they have to charge a proportionate and fairer amount to a country like Bangladesh.
Whether better access to health services and drugs, many of these third world countries would start to move out of the more that they are currently in. Of course there a huge numbers of variables but I as a share holder would prefer not to see children dying of diseases that could be prevented if it wasn't expensive.
Naturally firms like Gilead are going to use market economics to determine the correct price for each country anyway. Something is better than nothing right? Generics are more a solution for long running patents, which I'm personally against when it comes to drug development.
That's exactly what Gilead is doing! They out-licensed Sovaldi to 4-5 generic manufacturers in India. The price in India will be $900, 1.1% of the price in the US.
India developed their Mars mission for $74 million dollars. That's a fraction of the US cost. Why can't they develop new medicines for a fraction of the cost? The idea is to increase research at a global level, and have everyone contribute.
The only way I could see it working would be to have states guarantee a return to investors at some fixed rate of the cost to discover a new drug, and then buy the rights from them and release them public domain so anyone can manufacture it. But any kind of system like that, involving money taken through violent taxation and put through a bureaucratic blender of national politics, is bound for exploitation.
I doubt that in an IP free world all drug research would stop. Those with a vested interest and the charitable could and would fund their own research. One thing to consider is that modern drug research is not directed towards that which is hard or needed, but that which is profitable and wanted. That is why we see a half dozen erection drugs each year yet there has to be viral marketing campaigns for ALS research.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nom...
They will soon have the largest population, if the don't already. It's middle class isn't as large as the U.S., but it's growing quickly.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_India
Why wouldn't they want to invest into research to cure common diseases?
Thus the people who need it least are those who both have the money to potentially fund it themselves and the social power to make representatives care.
Drug development being guided by market forces works, government bodies tend to have a very poor record when it comes to picking winners, even worse at an international level. Global medical coordination's problems can be seen in the WHO's current problems.
Drug companies want to maximise their profit. They understand the basics of economics, the supply / demand curve, and that selling lots in poorer countries is better than selling much less at a higher price. The problem is what the earlier poster posited - that those drugs don't stay in India, or patients travel to there, at which point the economics become much riskier.
Given this site is full of people aware of how the VC process works they seem remarkably unable to apply the same logic to to drug development. Vast amounts of money are invested across many possible drugs, at each stage vicious winnowing occurs in order to receive later tranches of funding. In order to drive that winnowing there needs to be a payoff at the other end, and the payoff needs to be massive in order to justify the many other drugs looked into that don't pan out.
Whose idea is that? Who profits from its promotion?
Let's not forget that rights to ideas are inventions, not natural rights.
>It has been pretended by some, (and in England especially,) that inventors have a natural and exclusive right to their inventions, and not merely for their own lives, but inheritable to their heirs. But while it is a moot question whether the origin of any kind of property is derived from nature at all, it would be singular to admit a natural and even an hereditary right to inventors.
>It is agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject, that no individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of land, for instance. By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the property for the moment of him who occupies it, but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society.
>It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the actions of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.
>Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation.
>Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. Society may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience of the society, without claim or complaint from anybody. Accordingly, it is a fact, as far as I am informed, that England was, until we copied her, the only country on earth which ever, by a general law, gave a legal right to the exclusive use of an idea. In some other countries it is sometimes done, in a great case, and by a special and personal act, but, generally speaking, other nations have thought that these monopolies produce more embarrassment than advantage to society; and it may be observed that the nations which refuse monopolies of invention, are as fruitful as England in new and useful devices.
>Considering the exclusive right to invention as given not of natural right, but for the benefit of society, I know well the difficulty of drawing a line between the things which are worth to the public the embarrassment of an exclusive patent, and those which are not. As a member of the patent board for several years, while the law authorized a board to grant or refuse patents, I saw with what slow progress a system of general rules could be matured.
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1813 http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_8s12....
I argue that your system is responsible for most of the brutality of the 20th century; yours is the notion that violence makes right. That using guns to confiscate property is proper. The market system is the only moral system, it's the only one that doesn't hold some people to be the slaves of other people, with endless claims of need held over their heads, and their property expropriated by way of force.
Your theory posits that my wealth is owed to anyone else that is poorer than I am. Because my wealth could go to significantly improve their life in countless ways. Whether I have $50,000 or $50 million to my name makes no difference when we're talking about the bottom 15% of the world's poor. Whether I own a drug, or own cash, there is absolutely no difference, the claim is the same: I'm rich, and I have no right to my property, because there is someone poorer that has a need. I don't owe anyone the coat off my back, and that principle goes the same for America inherently owing a poor country anything; and if I choose to give someone my coat, it should be solely up to me.
The only moral system when dealing with such poverty is one of voluntary charity. Anything else is a crime against humanity, for there's nothing more disgusting than 'charity' at the point of a gun.
Objectivism in a nutshell: It is more moral to let an innocent child die in pain than to require someone to help them.
And just like Rand, you'll fight like a demon to suppress public assistance until it's your neck on the line, and then suddenly it's Social Security and Medicare on the sly, like a homophobic preacher hooking up blowjobs in men's rooms.
Imagine a world where companies only stood for the cost of funding research. No more 26.4 billions per year. No more tax funded universities for medical research. No more donations or foundations that give grants. The result would be that no one would get any new medicines and the medical industry would loudly cry for government intervention.
And that is with patents, a government granted monopoly. A way to "farm taxes", as it has been described historically.
Typical shortsighted focus on profits this quarter, without a sustainable business model.
Typically it's claimed big pharma & co. intentionally withhold, avoid creating, or would never pursue cures because it's not good for business. Then when they finally produce a cure, people get upset about the price. Short of being a non-profit or charity, they're damned if they do / don't.
I think if Gilead can input $1 billion for development, and yield $100 billion on a cure (minus some comparatively modest marketing expenses), that's an excellent business model. ($80k * 1.x million hep c patients in the US that get their cure; assuming only a portion of the 3.x million in the US end up taking Gilead's drugs)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemtuzumab
When sold to treat MS it has a 10000 x markup over the same medication sold to treat cancer.
Interestingly, it 'only' costs the equivalent of $650 per pill for the NHS to purchase [1], rather than the $1125 cited in the article. I expect it used its buying power to negotiate a more favourable price - yet another benefit of this nationalised, socialised health care system.
[1] According to the British National Formulary.
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Gilead, the manufacturer of Sovaldi, has a very generous support program for patients who either have very large insurance co-pays or don't have insurance at all[1].
The Sovaldi and Harvoni Co-pay Coupon Programs, which provide co-pay assistance for eligible patients with private insurance who need assistance paying for their out-of-pocket medication costs. Most patients will pay no more than $5 per co-pay. The Support Path Patient Assistance Program will provide Sovaldi and Harvoni at no charge for eligible patients with no other insurance options.
[1]http://www.gilead.com/responsibility/us-patient-access/suppo...
So if you have insurance, need this drug, and your copay is more than 25%, you're looking at tens of thousands out of pocket. As is usually the case, it appears they'll give it for free to the poorest of the poor that have no insurance. But if you're part of the middle class with (for example) crappy Obamacare exchange coverage, you could be in real trouble even with the discount provided by this program. If your copay was 50%, you'd be looking at paying $23,625 (25% of $94,500) out of pocket. For most people, that simply means no Harvoni.
https://www.harvoni.com/co-pay-coupon-registration?evo_sourc...
So in your example, Harvoni would cost $31,500 for the first month. At 50% co-insurance, you'd be responsible for $15,750, but only up to the cap of $6500. After that the insurance company pays everything.
Also, Gilead have benefits for the "underinsured". It's usually an income-based calculation. I would argue that no patient who truly need Sovaldi/Harvoni would not have some mechanism to get the drug via patient support programs.
I personally am happy the market supports these massive and risky R&D to occur based on windfalls for successful drugs. There's no known better model to encourage the necessary investment. Also, keep in mind, this is a treatment which is overall lowering the cost of this disease very significantly. It results in spending a fraction of the cost of chronic care for Hep C. But yes the bill hits all at once instead of over 20 painful years for the patient.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/25/news/india-mars-cost/
India definitely wants to grow its economy. Selling expensive drugs to the US and Europe couldn't hurt. Look at China, for example. They built 10,000 miles of high-speed rail for about 3x what the few hundred miles of HSR will cost in California. They built a maglev train for $1.2 billion. This couldn't be done for nearly the same price as the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train
India is where most generic drugs are made. India is the biggest supplier of generic drugs to the US.
http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/05/14/why-m...
Why not move into a more profitable business?