Ask HN: I’m visiting Bay Area and I dislike the “hacker” culture. Please help

You are probably overthinking it. As a Canadian who visits the bay area on a very regular basis for work (and lives in the backwoods in a community of 2000 people and takes a boat to get to a real airport), there is a jarring disconnect between the media portrayal of bay area culture and the reality.

I too eat meat, drink beer, and talk about the same topics. You'll find that is true of most "hackers" in the bay area too. The term hacker is used more often as shorthand to describe somebody who is into technology without getting into the details (software&hardware&ux).

I have seen precisely one person ever describe themselves as a rockstar, and we rejected his job application for plagiarizing his code samples. Nobody in the real world does this, and you're unlikely to get force-fed yoga, lifehacking, etc.

There are still things that weird me out about the bay area, but overall I really enjoy my time there. I encourage you to check out some tech meetups.

Oh. And Noisebridge and it's mailing list aren't representative of the larger geek community in SFO either, just saying ;)

> I think the whole “lifehacking” thing is retarded

Regardless of your general "help me understand the Bay" stance, this a HUGE negative blaming statement that originates from you alone.

I live in the Bay. I regularly modify my diet to see how it affects my health. I found out I'm allergic to gluten by testing its effects on making my ears ring, stomach ache, etc. Riding my bike clears my mind like nothing else. Why I do this, how I do it, talk about it, terms I use to refer to it and pretty much anything else I choose to do is up to me, and shouldn't be judged by you unless it affects you directly, even if you did read it somewhere. Which it doesn't, and you didn't.

I hear you when you want other opinions about the culture here, but as others have stated, the Bay Area has a massive number of people in the technology scene. We have compassion, asshats, brilliance, idiocy, over-achievers, under-achievers, massive revenue generators, massive cash burners, and everything in between. All from direct observations, FWIW.

If you want a good experience, then let all your expectations go and don't worry about it. Seek out meaningful conversations and experiences and let what will be, be.

In other words, come live in the moment, for a moment is all that you have here.

I hope your stay is an enjoyable one. I, for one, love it here.

Finding out how food and exercise affect your body and adjusting your behavior accordingly is very different from what "lifehack" is in popular media.

Even if we ignore the bad ideas and generally superfluous stuff branded as "lifehacks," the bare-bones of lifehacking is often steeped in the smug self-righteousness of the Bay that is a throughline in OP's post.

A right click and click on define divulges lifehacking as "a strategy or technique adopted in order to manage one's time and daily activities in a more efficient way". Given gluten is a drain on my brain, and riding at a certain time increases my clarity levels for creating, I'm going to strongly disagree with you here.

I also have NFC tags on my desk and near the front door to speed the time it takes to configure my phone for the commute to the city.

That there are some who are smug about their personal experiences practicing things I practice is up to them. Expecting to ONLY find smugness because people in the Bay (may) practice lifehacking is simply setting negative expectations. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cool sounding NFC setup - have you written anywhere about that? Or do you mind describing what the NFC points trigger on your phone here?

:) I use NFC Tools from the Google Play store + Whiztags with write capabilities, not that's necessary for executing predefined phone actions.

The update to the Nexus 5 now allows you to use the tags for unlocking the phone based on unique ID on an NFC tag as well.

I know exactly where you are coming from: a few years ago I decided I was going to move to either SF or NYC from socal. I interviewed at a bunch of places and spent time socializing in both cities, e.g. going to parties, meeting friends of friends, etc. It was an involved decision that I made carefully.

In the end, NYC was a no-brainer for me. I consistently found the bay area has developed an homogenous culture that even pervaded my non-tech friends' lives. People always asked the dreaded "so, what do you do?" way earlier than they did in NYC. And unlike in NYC, I often felt like I was being judged for my answer. I hated this because I like a strong work-life seperation. In NYC I found there's less of a social "hierarchy" based on profession. At a typical party you can meet an artist, an actor, a doctor, a hedge fund investor, and a marketing executive, and all may kick ass at their jobs. I got exposed to an insane amount of culture in NYC that I didn't see in SF.

Keep in mind that this is written from the perspective of a professional - there are probably large parts of the two cities that culturally overlap. Also, I'm not trying to say SF is a bad city, but it isn't for everyone.

Thank you for the reply! I also prefer NY but as you said, the startup culture is weak compared to SF. We'll see.

> the startup culture is weak compared to SF

I live in New York and I consider this a good thing.

I felt exactly the same way while working in SF, and have noticed a huge difference in terms of culture and diversity here in NYC. That said, if your goal is to build a startup or company, then ideally you should be in whatever location is best for doing that (within certain boundaries, of course).

If you can afford to live in either city and both are valid options for what you do, definitely consider NYC. The startup scene here is blossoming and like rm999 said, the amount of culture and interesting people you run into on a daily basis is amazing.

Living in SF now and have been living in California my whole life, I find the dreaded "so, what do you do?" question something that gets asked during a first time encounter when they've run out of interesting things to talk about. No one likes it, but the best way to answer is to talk about how much you enjoy what you do, not so much the details, otherwise the conversation dies very quickly, no matter your place in the "hierarchy."

the weather is a problem

I'm an American developer, and I feel exactly the same way.

There is more than one "hacker" tradition in the US. For instance, Caltech near Los Angeles, on the west coast, and MIT, near Boston, on the east coast, have been rivals for a long time. They have different cultures.

As someone native to the Midwest, educated in the Mid-Atlantic, and currently working in the South, it is readily apparent to me that there is no monolithic American culture. I can't stand the Western hippy-dippy nonsense, the Southern obsession with church and football, or any of the idiotic management fads that affect my work culture.

But the San Francisco/Silicon Valley culture has massive amounts of cash pumping through it at the moment, and bits of it are metastasizing elsewhere. As a result, I have seen open-plan offices, complete with ping-pong tables and people wearing shoes with separated toes, in places like Denver and Nashville.

What I really want is to see a company that hires for competence rather than cultural fit, values aptitude over experience, and doesn't try to pretend to be anything more than a place of business--where people go to do work, finish it, and then leave.

I also like the things you like, and I dislike the winters in Wisconsin. It would be very nice if there were a place other than Silicon Valley to enjoy the networking effect, without the cultural trappings that are such a giant turn-off to people elsewhere in the world, and even elsewhere in the US. But if you're looking to get paid, you may just have to suppress your irritation for a while.

First, don't believe everything you read. I'm willing to bet the majority of devs in the SF startup seen are relatively quiet, very overworked, and not overly political (unless, say, trying to pick up a member of the preferred gender).

Second, it's not like you're going to have a vegan feminist drum-circle (to use your own caricature) pounding away in your coworking space while you're trying to get work done. I wouldn't worry about that.

Third, your self-description should be able to fit in perfectly. Again, regardless of what it might seem like on the internet, there aren't roving bands of evil liberals looking to go all Clockwork Orange on you if you're at a Starbucks listening to a Glenn Beck podcast or whatever. Most people just don't give a shit.

Fourth, please reconsider posting like this. You paint with a really wide brush, and not only does it make you seem like an internet right-winger (which may not actually be true), it also reeks of ignorance of getting along with other people and being open-minded and excited to meet cultures outside of your comfort zone.

Lastly, if you want to visit a place with real diversity and make that money stretch (seriously, that's like 3 months rent here), check out Houston. Or Austin. Or Dallas.

Remember 8 million people live the Bay Area so the scene is diverse. I'd say more than 5 million of those don't care about technology or startups at all. What you read online is the few who shout the loudest and promote themselves or their idea.

>>My intention isn’t to be a hater. People are different, cultures are different, that’s fine :-)

>> I dislike people who call themselves hackers, rockstars, ninjas, nomads etc. I don’t care about yoga, organic food, vegans, feminists or spirit animals. I dislike overuse of the word “community” and I think the whole “lifehacking” thing is retarded.

Well I don't like the North Korean regime. That doesn't mean I hate North Koreans.

Actively being a "hater" is very different from politely listing groups or ideologies that you are trying to avoid.

And describing something you try to avoid as "retarded" is not exactly "polite".

There's definitely the stereotypical "hacker"/techie person you mention in San Francisco and Silicon Valley but there's also every other type of person you can imagine. Generally we have a "live and let live" mentality so people are free to be who they want, even if it's offensive to you.

Regarding some specific comments:

Hipsterish - Yeah, we are hipsterish because we think of ourselves as trendy. We also are more laid back than New York so t-shirts, jeans, sweatpants, sandals, are all a-ok with us.

Yoga - What's wrong with liking yoga? Stretching and meditation have been shown to help clear the mind and improve your mental wellness.

Organic Food - We are the pioneers of the organic food movement and have some of the best food in the world. It's just silly to hate organic food on the basis that it's pesticide free. People are passionate about their causes here so they take it to extremes.

Feminists - Okay, not touching this one with a ten-foot pole.

Spirit Animals - I'm not sure where this stereotype came from but I have to admit I have had multiple conversations at different parties about what everyone's spirit animal is.

Roam around the Bay Area, it's a big place, and you'll find people you are interested in hanging out with. You'll find more diversity in Oakland if that's what you're looking for (although there's probably more feminists and activists as well). Stay away from Berkeley because Yoga + Organic Food.

Enjoy your stay.

Yoga - What's wrong with liking yoga?

Nothing is wrong with yoga the activity. Just like nothing is wrong with owning a gun, flying the flag, or living in Georgia. But tell me with a strait face that "gun toting, flag waving, Georgia boy" doesn't conjure the image of a person that is more than the sum of those parts.

Sure it does, but is that reason enough for dismissal?

TL/DR: I'm pretty sure everyone in [insert group/place] are a specific kind of asshole and I'm looking for a different kind of asshole to surround myself with. Please help!

You're talking about close to a million people, maybe chill the fuck out and show up with more of an open mind. Or like, don't.

[Edit]

Uggh. I should probably leave the comment alone, but I feel bad about it so I'll try to add something more constructive. Like every large-enough subculture, the startup-scene tropes have some truth to them but it's still a very large and diverse set of people and ideas. If anything, I feel like the tendency toward a hyped up monoculture has receded in the last couple of years (somewhere in 2011 it seemed like we hit peak-food-photo-founder-rockstar).

I don't live in SF but I work for a startup there and travel up there a lot. All told, it's a really incredible city and while there's plenty about the startup culture to find fault in, it remains true that there are is an incredible density of really smart and motivated people there passionately working on stuff.

No apparent shortage of meat or beer, either. You can probably go a full day without being forced to eat tofu.

Don't worry; people in the Bay Area are annoyed by people who call themselves rockstars and ninjas too. As for what you're reading online, of course some people are like that, but in my experience they are for the most part not the interesting ones anyway. The best people I know don't care for fashions.

How are meat, beer, and broad discussions antithetical to your perception of how people in the Bay Area live?

> How are meat, beer, and broad discussions antithetical to your perception of how people in the Bay Area live?

I'm not saying it's antithetical, I was just trying to describe myself.

Oh, all right, I misunderstood.

I don't have any advice, but you seem to suggest that the whole "scene" is problematic. Ignoring that is a massive sweeping statement, perhaps consider if you are causing yourself to be the problem - you've already decided you're not interested in meeting anyone here, because you've already formed opinions. You might do better to take it as you find it.

Ofcourse I'm interested in meeting people there. Yes I formed some opinions but they might be totally wrong.

I just want to hear what people think about this subject.

Hey there,

I would be happy to show you around, introduce you to some good people, etc. if you like. I have a car and can take you to some places outside the immediate SF area (plus it gives me an excuse to drive somewhere). Always happy to show people around :) My contact info is on my profile.

Haha, I'll probably take you up on that offer..

Sounds good. Just have something clear for your email subject so I know who you are :)

Asking here is a mistake. Living in the culture of the Bay normalizes you to the idiosyncrasies that stand out to outsiders.

Like any loose collective, the techies in the bay will allow themselves to be labeled as a subculture when their ego is getting stroked. But if pressed with a criticism you'll find that they're just a diverse group of people that may share a profession and hobby or two but can't possibly be a considered a subculture with general defining traits. And neither way to see them is wrong.

The good news is that the prominent attitudes are not shared by everyone, or even most people. The bad news is that the people that exhibit them are annoyingly prominent. And everyone worth knowing has a coping strategy to blend in.

Normally you'll only see that behavior if you eavesdrop at a coffee shop, visit some startup's office (not all are like this), end up working in a co-working space, or couch surfing at a hacker hostel of some sort (these are normally whipped together by 4+ people renting a giant house and trying to split rent).

Visit the bay area, enjoy the good food. Find a way to head into any of the surrounding hills for a nice hike. Visit the computer museum. Have some coffee at the Philz on Middlefield Road. Enjoy your time there.

There surely exist people such as you describe, but I think they're far less prevalent than you might worry. Amongst techies I know in the area, maybe 40% have at least one of the negative (from your perspective) attributes you've listed; I don't think I know anyone personally to whom they all apply, and "the type of person who likes eating meat, drinking beer, talking about politics, money, science, entrepreneurship, programming etc." could describe most of my friends.

I think if you go in expecting to have a bad time, it may become self-fulfilling. Maybe focus more on the things you like and less on the things you hate?

The media portrayal of the Bay Area and of California itself is wildly misguided and wrong. Like all stereotypes, the image of the vegan "rockstar" self-important hacker has a basis in reality, but it's a cartoonish exaggeration.

I’m the type of person who likes eating meat, drinking beer, talking about politics, money, science, entrepreneurship, programming etc.

You'll find plenty of company.

I've lived in the bay area for 10+ years as a Software Engineer and follow all the local news. But i don't get the sense that the things you mentioned are more popular than the other stuff you said you like. There's lots of people here who like talking about politics, money, science and drinking beer. It's not nearly as white and black here as you imagine.

I think you're a bit caught up in stereotypes, to be honest. There aren't many people who are all those things you think you dislike. If you meet someone cool, and then they happen to be a vegan, what's your plan? Argue that they suck?

I'd say, you are going to somewhere new. Keep an open mind. You might find out you like some of this stuff.

I went through a similar thing in my first few trips to the Bay area, and ultimately decided to not move there for the same reasons.

I've found subsequent trips to be much easier. Unfortunately, the most vocal and easiest to meet within the community were the most abrasive / kool aid driven. Keep digging.

We're moving to the bay area from the midwest for 6 months, starting January first. If you want to grab coffee sometime, shoot me an email and I'll introduce you to my team. Email address in profile.

We work on enterprise MedTech web-apps in the healthcare administration field.

Sure. :) Wrote down your username.

For what it's worth, You sound alot like me, but I've never visited California. On the other hand, I've lived in New York my entire life and I love it.

Come visit New York and see how you like it!

Spending less than $2,500/month may require some lifehacking IMO

I guess I deserved that :P

On a side note, I find the term life-hacking, and it's strange cousin travel-hacking pretty annoying as well.

A friend of mine tried to 'travel-hack' SXSW by renting a U-Haul and attempting to stay there instead of renting a hotel...

He forgot that it: (A) might be pretty chilly and (B) would remain unlocked, unless he wanted someone to lock him in and unlock him in the morning.

Needless to say he ended up crashing on the floor of my house, which really is a much better and long-standing 'travel-hack' to begin with.

If you were here already I'd invite you to PagerDuty's 12 Pubs of Christmas tonight. We don't have any rockstars. Anyone is welcome - we start around 5:30 at Red Dog.

That sounds mighty fine :O

> I’m the type of person who likes eating meat, drinking beer, talking about politics, money, science, entrepreneurship, programming etc.

Honestly sounds like the NYC culture is more your thing

It sounds like California might be wasted on you. You might like Edinburgh (in Scotland.) Seriously, though, you'll find what you look for wherever you go. ;-)

Totally affordable if you live in Oakland. :-)

(Disclosure: I live in Oakland.)

I had to look up "life hacking" - its not nearly as prevalent here as you imagine. But, why would you not like something that makes life easier?

Just move to New York already, lots of meat, beer, politics and money, and a common hatred for the West coast. Sorry about the winter though.

Yeah, come to New York. You belong here.

> I don’t care about yoga, organic food, vegans, feminists or spirit animals.

You forgot standing desks :)

I actually find those useful :O Guess I'm a hacker now.

Do you want money or not? Also, $2500/mo is unrealistic.