Uber Driver Accused of Raping Passenger in Boston | Hacker News Reader

Uber Driver Accused of Raping Passenger in Boston

time.com

41 pointsbpiche43 comments

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Recently-reported rapes by traditional taxi drivers that haven't been on the front page of HN:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/12/11/cab...

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/12/tourist_says_cab...

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Cab-Driver-Arrested-for-S...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2844528/Taxi-driver-...

They don't involve a "startup" whose raison d'etre is to bypass regulation and break laws in order to achieve competitive advantage.

It's not like they're dumping toxic waste. I'm extremely grateful that Uber has the balls to break taxi laws, because taxi laws used to have a distinctly negative impact on my life (namely that I was forced to take taxis).

This is entirely the fault of CEO Travis Kalanick who should be fired immediately. Once a narrative develops around a company (such as "Exxon hates the environment" or "GM makes dangerous cars") then the narrative takes on a life of its own, and it takes many years of hard work for a company to dispel that narrative from the mind of the public. For a young company like Uber to already develop a narrative like that suggests very bad public relations management on the part of the CEO of Uber. Kalanick allowed a great many separate threads (sexism in the workplace, in Kalanick's personal life, in the relationships of the drivers to the passengers, etc) to coalesce. This is from his interview with GQ magazine:

"Not to make assumptions, but Kalanick probably wasn’t the first kid in his class to lose his virginity. But the way he talks now—which is large—he’s surely making up for lost time. When I tease him about his skyrocketing desirability, he deflects with a wisecrack about women on demand: “Yeah, we call that Boob-er.” "

It's funny up until the moment that it isn't. Kalanick should go, and Uber should get a CEO who can credibly promise to take issues of safety seriously.

This is clearly horrible, but there seems to be a perception that Uber's business model is somehow conducive to this, or at least related. I'd argue the opposite - if a regular cab driver (or a gypsy cab) were to commit the same crime a) nobody would report on it b) you'd have a much harder time tracking down the perp

With Uber my wife has a record of exact pickup and drop-off location, route (including any stops for criminal activity) as well as the driver's picture, name, car description etc. I feel much better about that than I would about a random yellow cab.

And while we're at it, let's stop holding up cab drivers as paragons of virtue. I've read so many articles about Uber lately that make it sound like only the purest of heart and noblest of mankind drive real taxis and pay their graft ^H^H^H^H^H medallion fees...

I don't think Uber's model is necessarily conducive to this, but with small private hire firms it is likely that any case like this would bankrupt them so they may be more careful about drivers they take on. Uber has scale, but that also divorces it from the effects of "one bad apple".

Also, while I agree that taxi drivers are no better than any group - if you've paid for a medallion I doubt you would waste all that on committing a crime like this.

Running an unlicensed cab - now that is a dodgy bunch of people that no-one should get in a car with.

Few (if any) taxi drivers are medallion owners. Drivers pay lease fees to access medallions and the vehicles to which they're attached.

True, but in some places taxi drivers are vetted or have background check to some degree before being allowed to operate. The question is are Uber's practices too lax in this regard?

But don't medallion owners also hire drivers? Not all of them care about their employer's reputation.

Thus, surely some negligible——but still tangible——fraction of cab drivers, working for Uber or not, will at some point rape a customer no matter what but with Uber the chances to collect evidence and identify the driver after the fact is probably much better, making it likely for the abusing driver to be prosecuted. This in turn creates a deterrent. With a regular cab, unless the customer can identify the car s/he doesn't really know who the driver is. Further, all the bad driver needs to do is to cover the cab number and become practically anonymous.

I mostly agree, but (a) is untrue. A driver of a popular Bay Area airport shuttle service raped a woman and I did read about it.

but you only hear about it locally. Even so, when you hear about an uber incident, it's information aggregated across multiple markets (boston, india, etc.)

Yup, exactly. As someone with loved ones in Cambridge who use Uber constantly, and is therefore extremely distressed by rapists prowling their neighborhoods... thank god for Uber.

I'm a tall, professional male with a law degree who's never intoxicated or high. Even then, I've had many cabs do shady stuff in NYC and even I couldn't recall who drove me, if the driver's license (if displayed at all) matched the driver's physical description, or even what make and model the cab itself was -- much less critically important information like the license plate or the driver's name.

For rapists, the ability to lock a woman in a car and drive her anywhere you choose has always been a singular advantage to driving a cab. I wouldn't expect a traumatized victim to be able to remember the car or driver's details, or even where she was taken. Thankfully, Uber now records all that for you. It's a powerful deterrent to rapists who otherwise would enjoy the freedom to kidnap at will.

If this article can be used in service of any particular statement, it's that there are truly awful people in the world who perhaps should be locked away much longer than they are now. I know this opinion is at odds with the general sentiment that prison sentences are too long already, but I'm not particularly eager for Alejandro Done to get out and continue preying on women.

Most taxi companies in big cities track their cars with GPS these days. It's really too cheap not to do it these days. They've already got cellular transmitters in them for credit card processing, so adding a GPS phone-home isn't incredibly costly.

Exactly. Rapes have been occurring in taxis for a long time, the only difference is Uber provides more accountability as you have a complete record of the transaction (gps location, personal information of the driver, etc) digitally stored. What these stories should focus on is how quickly these situations get resolved given the wealth of information provided by Uber (as opposed to a taxi cab) and how quickly that will act as a deterrent.

I can't tell if these are legitimate growing pains any company experiencing such a growth spurt might incur or if these are a fault of Uber's.

Dumb comments made by CEOs, rapes by drivers all over the world.

The dumb comments by the CEOs are dumb, but they're just that.

The rapes on the other hand? A quick google search turns up a slew of results for taxi rape. It doesn't appear to be endemic but it doesn't appear to be uncommon. Of course, were Uber to dismiss these charges as "things that happen" there'd be a slew of outrage. But what solutions are there? Panic buttons? How do you track millions of separate entities all across the globe? And what do you do when someone presses the panic button? Are police able to get there in time? Do the police do "the right thing" half the time?

My belief is in India, often times, the "face" (as the Chinese use the term, to save face) of a rapist may often be considered more worthy of protection than the woman.

These are tough questions that the company must use considerable tact in handling.

They're not going to be able to offer free rides for every national disaster such as the one that occurred recently in Sydney. Will they set up a control center to monitor world events and observe when not to jack prices up?

And can any one reporter, group of people, or group in general understand and come up with a perfect way to handle a forty billion dollar globe spanning company which deals with people at such an individual level.

Most companies of that scale don't deal with individuals in confined spaces where trust is a prerequisite and many times assumed. Can a company handle that level of scrutiny on a global scale?

If a rape occurs in a NYC yellow cab, the damage is relatively confined to the NYC yellow cabs (still a seriously large market but the point is made). However when allegations come from all over the world every day, can any company withstand the pressures?

> My belief is in India, often times, the "face" (as the Chinese use the term, to save face) of a rapist may often be considered more worthy of protection than the woman.

This is in no way restricted to India. Google any rape story involving a promising high school or college athlete in America. Watch how the community steps into formation to defend the kids' futures.

Not without cause. The recent UVA scandal, the semi-recent duke lacrosse scandal, and the unconscionable number of rape convicts being exonerated and released on account of dna evidence being tested with modern methods all point to the need for defense of the accused.

It's almost as if accused rapists, like other accused criminals, should be innocent until proven guilty.

Sufficient legal aid for the accused has nothing to do with saving face. Perhaps someone who runs under a throwaway isn't familiar with that distinction?

"Will they set up a control center to monitor world events and observe when not to jack prices up?"

And this is why automated surge pricing as a business model is socially unacceptable and I expect (or hope) that regulations would ban or at least limit the extent of the "surge". This is also why taxi regulations etc. are required in the first place.

Key word here is accused. Nothing is proven yet so let's not jump to conclusions. Also as asn0 has said, traditional taxis have more rape issues and they have nowhere near the level of record keeping Uber does to help authorities solve these issues.

Why would someone falsely accuse an Uber driver of rape? Humor me.

Why would Uber call in false ride requests to a competitor?

I don't think this is a fair question. Just because you (or any single person) cannot think of a reason, does not mean that a reason does not exist. It doesn't mean a reason exists, either. The point is - we don't know. It's a question and needs an answer before we draw conclusions.

Why would someone falsely accuse anyone of rape? It doesn't make sense, but unfortunately it happens.

We operate under the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. So until the case is fully investigated and a verdict is made I think it's important to make the distinction rather than assume that a rape is true just because it's a horrible act.

this is not simply a problem of 'at least two' uber drivers having been charged with raping passengers since sunday, but the fact that it is symptomatic of a pattern of flouting laws in boston (and other areas certainly). here in the bean uber has already been convicted of making up $10 airport passenger fees when the commonwealth itself only enforces ~$3 (and then only on licensed cabs). rape is not a disease specific to uber and it certainly afflicts the larger livery industry, but kalanick's brand of deregulation and aggressive 'asshole capitalism' arguably provides a perfect stew for these crimes to occur. it's only worse for the fact that they are publicly known and still think they can get away with it

kalanick's brand of deregulation and aggressive 'asshole capitalism' arguably provides a perfect stew for these crimes to occur.

How so? Exactly what mechanism would lead to that?

One difference with taxi cabs is that many of them have security video systems in the car. These are primarily for driver safety, but can also be for passenger safety.

Some taxis also have a driver safety system that when engaged will flash a light on the rear of the cab to notify folks to call the police that the driver needs help. I wonder if thieves will start robbing uber driver (car jack) because of a general lack of security systems?

ubers don't carry cash, so it's no better than robbing a private car. Taxis do carry cash, which is why they desire those systems.

I was thinking of car jacking... taking the entire car. UberLux/UberSux/UberBlack is essentially an on demand high end vehicle for thieves. They'd need a burner cell phone and stolen credit card... but that's a pretty low barrier.

Still not that much better than jacking a private car.

One difference with taxi cabs is that many of them have security video systems in the car. These are primarily for driver safety, but can also be for passenger safety.

Are these protected from the driver itself? Seems like someone who intended to commit a crime would simply "accidentally" disconnect it.

I couldn't find it mentioned in the time.com article or the original source, btu was this an UberX vehicle or an UberTaxi, etc?

I can definitely see this sort of thing happening with UberX, less so with UberTaxi (certainly no less likely than a regular taxi in this case).

What is missing in all this are real checks. People need to be more blacklisted. Every person that seems suspect or that have done something slight bad to you should be denounced publicly in a way that can be verified and consulted later.

Just 2% rapists are convicted/punished by courts in India.

http://ncrb.gov.in/CD-CII2011/cii-2011/Chapters.htm

I am surprised this is the first incident. Uber is an excellent way for the criminial circuit to get cheap hits. Not only sexual abuse but also theft, abduction and extortion. Step in the car, lock the doors and put a mobile signal distortion device in the back and boom you can take your passenger anywhere you want.

How is Uber an excellent way, when it requires you to be identified and records who and where you picked up the client?

Much safer to paint your car like a taxi, put a fake sign on top and pick up anyone hailing without any records of you having ever done so.

And as soon as any trouble is realized you will be in a world of shit since you are a registered driver with your SSN/background check/other personal info on file. Uber is not the free for all everyone is making it out to be.

It's not the first incident, it's the fourth incident from ride sharing companies in Boston this month, and the Commonwealth has already confirmed that two of them were from Uber

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/12/16/least-two-women-...

It's important that we forgive Uber for these unfortunate incidents. It's wrong to pick on an innocent company for the misdeeds of a few employees.

I'm pretty sure people would be after blood from most companies if the rape occurred on company time and company premises.

(Yes I know the cab isn't owned by Uber, but the analogy fits)

The question is, for any taxi service, how many rapes we define as acceptable before we start insisting on specific, effective measures to improve safety. It cannot be axiomatic that it is not fair to ask Uber ever to do anything to make their service safer.

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