Comment by rdtsc | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rdtsc | Hacker News Reader

Childrens' stories and even lullabies have always sounded creepy. You know "rock-a-bye baby" for example. And I get asked "Daddy, why did they put the crib in the tree and let the baby fall and get hurt!???". I didn't think much about it first, then once I did, it does sound a bit off.

Then my kid is freaked out about Santa. "What? This person in funny clothes will break into our house, at night, while I am asleep, and I am supposed to be happy about it". Yeah that is pretty creepy too.

Then Elf On The Shelf. Wife said all the friends are doing this thing with their kids. We decided not to, it is too strange. Now reading this it makes it even worse. You know back in the day it used to be "God is watching you. Don't do bad things. Don't think bad thoughts. Etc.". That is very effective brainwashing. Once done on a child they will cary guilt and this nagging feeling of being watched and critisized with them for life (Hey isn't that Super Ego? I saw someone drop Slavoj Zizek's name, he would know). Today not many people are religious but I think they are earning for a substitute. Perhaps unconsciously if you will. This is that substitute -- "Elf will see you mix salt in the sugar bowl and will punish you".

I've been watching the original Thomas the tank engine with my son and was a bit surprised to notice the theme around obeying the Fat Controller's authority.

He is a mostly benevolent authority figure who helps the engines out of their scrapes, but engines that defy him or disturb the peace are punished. In an early episode he left an engine bricked up in a tunnel. Quite a few engines have also been sent away as well.

It is slightly funny to see childhood again through adult eyes but I'm not sure what I'll do when my son is old enough to understand these things. Im sure the idea of being left alone in a tunnel would have terrified me as a child. :)

The stories were written by some christian minister or other and it seems he was fairly authoritarian.

The highest praise one can receive in that world is to be described as "really useful."

To the Controllers.

My daughter loves Caillou, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caillou, which is a fairly educational show focused on social relationships and the challenges that young kids run into. Overall it is actually pretty good and doesn't have strange authority figures. But Caillou is a whiner who has tantrums, and my daughter now whines and has tantrums almost exactly like Caillou. I'm pretty sure she learned it from the show.

So all these shows have consequences, even the good ones. I'm not sure what is worse, whining and tantrums or deference to authority figures?

PS. I'm not the only one who thinks Caillou is a whiner: http://google.com/#q=caillou+whiner

Interesting, we have also noticed that our daughter is now saying the resigned "Well Ok" with a sigh (or whatever the English translation is) as the eponymous character. I had not noticed the link to the tantrums though...

Caillou is pretty much the worst children's show I have ever seen, the hate is not undeserved. He constantly whines and has tantrums and his parents always give in, just teaches children to be insufferable to get your way.

We forbid our children from watching Caillou. We explain to them that the way he behaves is not acceptable or allowed in our home. We don't want them to think Caillou's behavior is okay. They self-police now.

Without choosing sides, I think it's pretty clear that Caillou's creators are presenting an approach to parenting that involves encouraging kids to emote. Which is often not a lot of fun to be around, of course, but the opposite approach could amount to telling kids to shut up because you don't want to know how they feel. My suspicion is that kids will self-limit eventually, as part of developmental growth, and that worrying too much about either extreme is probably pointless. My gripe is that Caillou's pacing is so vague and dreamy that essentially almost nothing happens in an entire episode.

Interesting. I didn't know that "encouraging kids to emote" is a thing, but I guess it could be.

I never knew kids had trouble emoting. Emoting is all that the ones I know do.

Art is derived from culture. Subconscious, no, that's old hat. Just think of art as 'reality' with substitutions consisting of a selected subset of permutations of commonly used contemporarily composed and defined symbols. It's all swappy metaphor. We exist in realty first. Art may enforce culture, but reality comes first. Otherwise, insanity, literally.

What scares me is Humpty Dumpty -- where in that rhyme does it say that Humpty Dumpty is an egg?

>> Today not many people are religious

I think you're wrong about that. I also think you're wrong to conflate your apparent phobias about religion with Elf on the Shelf and government control.

> I think you're wrong about that.

Well it depends where. In US you are probably right. But! The pun works there as well. The Elf is just a pointer (or a type) to God. You know first teach them about the Elf then once that is internalized teach them about God.

The ultimate effect is to induce self-sensorship. I think that is critical. This is not unlike the Panapticon effect ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon ) described by Bentham and then expounded and implemented, one can say, by a surveilance society. Before that religion and God served as that mechanism -- induce self-sensorship and behavior control by positing an omniscient and ever vigilant God. Once you've convinced the person they are being watched. You don't have to actaully watch them.

If your kid is old enough to understand the concept of breaking and entering yet still believes in Santa, then you need to have a talk to with your kid. :)

They didn't verbalize clearly like that, but after talking about it and telling them Santa will come down into the house, I got back a "I don't like Santa. I don't want him to come".

Maybe you can avoid the child's anxiety by making it look more like a visit, with you staying awake and waiting for Santa to come.

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