Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)
onbeing.org
onbeing.org
SF: https://www.facebook.com/events/675598982556580/
Oakland: https://www.facebook.com/events/858052834217501/
NYC: https://www.facebook.com/events/959630214065046/
Boston: https://www.facebook.com/events/1559794327598726/
(and I'm sure there's one near where you live as well)
Speaking of prominent white activist intellectuals, here's Chomsky's view on Einstein: "Compare Russell and Einstein, two leading figures, roughly the same generation. They agreed on the grave dangers facing humanity, but chose different ways to respond. Einstein responded by living a very comfortable life in Princeton and dedicating himself to research that he loved, taking a few moments for an occasional oracular statement. Russell responded by leading demonstrations and getting himself dragged off by the cops, writing extensively on the problems of the day, organizing war crimes trials, etc. The result? Russell was and is reviled and condemned, Einstein is admired as a saint. Should that surprise us? Not at all."
You do realize Einstein was a Jew who was forced to leave Germany because of Nazism, right?
"Race is a social concept used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation. First used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations, in the 17th century, people began to use the term to relate to observable physical (i.e. phenotypical) traits." [0]
But more importantly, they are an ethnoreligious group, defined by shared ethnicity and religion. [1]
So, not all Jews are Jews, and not all Jews are Jews. But the classification is not always religious.
[0] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)
You choose whether to follow an evil religion.
You can't choose what colour of skin you are born with or the facial bone structure. You /can/ change those things later but it is expensive, requires surgery or bad chemicals and is really unpleasant.
Discriminating against religions is a completely different (and much more defensible) matter than discriminating against "race" or ethnicity.
Einstein isn't admired because he chose a life of research... he's admired because of his research. Russel is also incredibly admired, then and now.
Hence, why this seems hypocritical: Chomsky made his trade-off, and continues to enjoy a comfortable professor's life. I think it's fair to say that Chomsky has done far more political activism in his life than Einstein, but far less than Russell.
Well, by the John Birchers and the like, but he also won the Nobel (in literature, of all things) and was quite influential among people who would not have understood the Principia Mathematica. I think Chomsky is way off base here.
But when I read recent reports about arson, looting, windows smashed, trash cans overturned and lit on fire, businesses destroyed, police officers assaulted with rocks, explosives and firebombs, millions of damages caused, when I read about "burn that bitch down" - I think maybe this particular instance is not what I want to be part of at all. Maybe associating with this wouldn't do as much to combat either public perception of police needing to be tough or any particular prejudices.
And then I read something like this: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/10/a-college-president-had-to... and this https://twitter.com/onekade/status/543202210516303872/photo/... and honestly, I don't know what to think.
It's really an interesting phenomenon. Most people believe truth is relative though, so I guess it's not logically surprising that there is no consensus.
If you really were deeply concerned about police brutality and its disproportionate application against black people, then you would wholly understand that and outburst of anger and violence is a likely reaction when people are pushed to their limit.
The current wave of protests are not those riots, they are organized action to protest this reality. Moreover, your approval means nothing while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions.
>>> The current wave of protests are not those riots
This was this monday: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/08/violence-erupts-at-berk...
I have doubts the same people have changed in a week and would be completely benign now.
>>> Moreover, your approval means nothing while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions.
It is true, that my approval means nothing to them. I'm just explaining why myself - and I suspect, many others - while supporting the overall goal of lowering police brutality - and actually having been supporting it way before current events - would not take part in these protests, as the top comment suggested. I think it is still relevant to the discussion.
>>> while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions.
If you want to convince the silent majority the police is going too far and ends up hurting innocent people (or hurting not-so-innocent people way more than it is acceptable), making their TV show them pictures of fires, destruction and general mayhem may be not the most effective way to achieve it.
First, it's not like there has been widespread looting and chaos at these marches. Yes, there has been some, for sure, but the vast vast majority of these protests and protestors are peaceful. It only takes one person to break windows and light fires.
Second, even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it. These are angry, hopeless, beat down, etc people who feel like they never get any justice.
I don't condone the violence, but I certainly understand it.
I'm not sure which exactly "these". I've heard a real lot of reports about the mayhem recently. Maybe if you count the number of perpetrators and divide it by the number of participants in all events everywhere, the result comes out low, I don't know. But I see how much damage was done[1], and I think there is enough of them to spoil it.
>>> It only takes one person to break windows and light fires.
Unfortunately, the size of the rioting and destruction does not look like it's done by "one person" or even negligible number of persons. If it would be so, they would be easily stopped by the people around them, or by the police with the help of the former. I've seen peaceful demonstrations, and I've seen riots (the latter, fortunately, only in recording) and there's a difference that can be seen.
>>> even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it.
I appreciate it. But since I am lucky enough to still possess the capability of rational thought and not be in a situation where I no longer have this luxury - maybe I should use it and ask myself "is this the best way?"And maybe call others who also have not abandoned the rational thought to do the same.
>>> I don't condone the violence, but I certainly understand it.
"Understand" is such a pliable word. Do I understand why some people may strap explosives to their bodies and explode them in the middle of a crowded market? Yes, I do, I am not stupid and there are tons of literature written on various ways of propaganda, brainwashing, misery, hopelessness and suffering. I can intellectually follow it without excusing the heinous actions in any way. And yet, when I read "I can understand it", it still somehow has a smell of excusing it to some measure. Is my perception wrong here? Same with rioting - I can follow the genesis of what happened, intellectually, but I can not see how what is happening is in any way makes it any better and do not think it should be excused.
[1] http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/im-l...
As to the rest...I just can't get worked up over some broken windows and stolen beer (again, bay area) when people are being killed in the streets and nothing is being done. Intellectually I know it hurts some small businesses, and is a pain to deal with, and the helicopters keep me up at night, etc., but it's really hard to compare that to the situation with black, brown, and poor america.
When you are disproportionately targeted by police for everything under the sun, the state takes your young males (some studies suggest 1 in 3 black men are arrested in their life), the state doesn't provide basic services or support, doesn't care about your education, there are no jobs and very little hope, and then on top of that the police are gunning down "your people" in the streets with no consequences what-so-ever...breaking windows just doesn't move the needle for me at all. Something needs to happen to address the situation and the status quo hasn't helped at all. Maybe some rabble rousing will make something happen. Or not. But at least these people are trying to do /something/!
Listen, I'm privileged whitey mcwhiterson software engineer. I live in Oakland. I see a lot of this in my community, though I don't claim to have any understanding of the personal impact being in that situation is. But it's undeniable that we've left an entire generation (or two, or three) of the black community behind and it pisses me off that we as society just don't seem to care. Good for them, and their allies, for getting up off the couch.
That's a fallacious logic. From this logic it follows that as long as there are bad crimes, any lesser crimes are OK. Breaking windows and stealing beer is not helping to make the police (or anything else) better - if anything, it proves to the silent majority that the police is not harsh enough - evidently, as soon as it turns the other way, there's window breaking and beer stealing going on. So it only goes to prove that the police should put the boot down for those window breakers and beer stealers. To counter this argument, it should be shown that window breaking and beer stealing does not represent the normal behavior and is not what the protest is about. And to make that clear, yes, you should "get worked up" about it, otherwise people who don't know you would assume you do consider it to be OK, and make their conclusions. And you may not like them at all.
>>> but it's really hard to compare that to the situation with black, brown, and poor america.
First of all, most of the people hurt are black, brown and (relatively) poor America. The rioters don't go to riot in Beverley Hills and don't trash Larry Ellison's private island. They riot next door to where they live and trash and set on fire the local grocery store. Which is owned by their neighbor who is only marginally richer than they are, who worked his ass off his whole life to become that and who is now broke and needs to figure out how the hell he's going to pay his bills next month. But second - what exactly that trashing and burning does to make the situation better (I don't consider couple of looters getting drunk for free a real improvement)? Exactly nothing except now they don't have a local grocery store (so also guys who worked there are out of work. Also not exactly billionaires they were, right?).
>> Maybe some rabble rousing will make something happen
Or maybe it would convince the other people that the problem is not that the police is too harsh but that it is not harsh enough. I've heard the questions about "why National Guard was not deployed immediately" all over the TV and radio as soon as the riots hit the streets. National Guard, as you know, is basically military. So people start asking why the government is not setting the military - with tanks, fighter jets and other power tools - on their citizens, because the police with mere handguns, shotguns and armored cars looks too weak for them. Is that what rabble rousing was supposed to achieve? If so, good job then. If not, well, not so good job.
>>> we've left an entire generation (or two, or three) of the black community behind and it pisses me off that we as society just don't seem to care.
The society cares a lot - just turn on the TV and listen to any politician, they talk day and night about it for the last 50 years. Has it helped? Not really, as it looks. Does trashing and burning help? Not likely. So maybe it's time to do something that does help instead. And for that, some though is required as to what would help, instead of just breaking windows and stealing beer. Stealing beer is easy, but would not solve the problem, unfortunately.
Can somebody (preferably a downvoter) explain it to me?
We can look at Garner, and see that a great injustice happened to him.
Compare to Brown. The police had a very good reason to stop him (walking in the middle of the street, matches description of person who had just robbed a nearby store and assaulted the shop keeper), and he attacked the police officer and tried to take the officer's gun. The only thing it appears that the police officer did wrong was letting Brown approach the car while the officer was inside with his gun still holstered, which allowed Brown into a position to attack.
Looking at Brown, we see a man who did something really stupid, and suffered pretty much the same outcome that we'd expect for anyone in that situation.
Lumping Garner and Brown together, like these protestors are doing, seems to me to be an insult to the memory of Eric Garner.
I wish this single sentence was underscored and repeated every time this issue comes up. Physical evidence confirms this sequence of events: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/ferguso...
There would not be blood inside the police car if Brown hadn't been reaching into the car. In what scenario was it reasonable for Brown to reach inside the police car? Are people seriously suggesting that Brown was casually leaning into the cruiser, and the officer pulled out his gun and shot him? Why is there blood inside the car if Brown wasn't wrestling for his gun?
But, no, we can't let a little thing like evidence and due process stop us. Why people have chosen to make a violent individual who just robbed a store into a martyr is beyond me. That store he robbed has now been looted, by the way.
Let's put it this way. Now, I'm not saying this version of events happened. I'm saying, please bear with me and seriously consider the question: You're a cop. You have a gun and nothing else. Someone has just leaned through the window of your cruiser and tried to grab your gun while beating your face. Adrenaline is pumping through you as a natural consequence of this. You defend yourself. He runs. You run after him to apprehend him, because it's your job and your duty to the community to apprehend someone brazen enough to attack a police officer. If they're willing to attack you, an officer, then obviously they're willing to attack anyone else in the community.
As you run after him and catch up, he turns around and charges towards you. The gun is in play, now. You know it, he knows it. You've seen videos of how this has ended for other officers, where other criminals have grabbed the officer's gun and murdered them with it. You have two seconds to decide what to do.
How would you react? What would you do? I don't know what I would do. I wouldn't want to be in that situation. But the officer certainly didn't either.
Would you run away? Would you let him come up to you and try to punch him, and risk him wrestling the gun from you? Would you try to aim for his legs, even though every hour of gun range training in your life has always hammered into your instincts to aim for the center of mass, and never to point your gun at anything you're not willing to kill? What do you do in that scenario?
My only point here is that the above scenario is the one which physical evidence has most closely corroborated. In particular, the bullets did not enter Brown from behind.
Obviously, it was a huge failure of the police department on two counts. One, that every officer wasn't armed with a taser and pepper spray. Two, that every cruiser wasn't equipped with an audio and video recording system which was turned on at all times. That happened because the Ferguson police department is seriously under-funded. Other police incidents have experienced intentional coverups or other malicious intent, like destroying evidence or erasing video/audio tapes, but this wasn't one of them. The lack of equipment was a factor of funding. No one wanted a video more than that officer, whose life as he knew it is now essentially over. He has to live in secrecy the rest of his life, along with his family, friends, everyone he knew. He has to either cut ties with them or swear them to secrecy about his new identity and location.
Youth alone isn't relevant. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacklyn_H._Lucas#Marine_Corps_s...
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/11/24/white-man-beats-two-c...
Anecdotal evidence and all that, but from a foreigners perspective, it seems America still has to deal with racial bias and a police force that is all too happy to escalate situations.
This is disputed by witness testimony: same say this happened, others say it didn't. Other testimony indicates that Wilson may have instigated conflict when making the stop.
> Looking at Brown, we see a man who did something really stupid, and suffered pretty much the same outcome that we'd expect for anyone in that situation.
This is not at all the case. Wilson shot Brown when we was a significant distance from the car (100+ feet) and Brown was not armed in any way. We do not expect someone who commits a petty theft to be executed by the police when Wilson had a variety of other options at his disposal. Doing something stupid isn't and should not be a death sentence.
> Lumping Garner and Brown together, like these protestors are doing, seems to me to be an insult to the memory of Eric Garner.
These deaths are wholly related to the racism of police practice in the United States. Presenting disputed testimony as the truth is extremely misleading.
I didn't downvote (I think there's entirely too much of that on HN) but Brown's blood was inside the police car. There is no scenario that Brown's blood could have wound up inside the car unless he was reaching in through the window for some reason. Can anyone think of any reason other than "reaching for the Officer's gun," even if we give Brown every possible benefit of the doubt? I'd love to be persuaded.
We have to look at the physical evidence, not at what people said.
Ok. How about the cop grabs and yanks a teen that's near his window starting off the struggle. Teen struggles, pushes and or punches cop to break free as cop grabs gun and lets off shot or two while Brown continues to punch/struggle/push to break free, in the course of which Wilson suffers horrible injury that looks like a razor bump. Breaking free, Brown runs approximately 100 feet. Wilson, enraged that he was not immediately obeyed as ordered, starts firing, chasing brown and hits brown in some way. He fires 11 more shots as he fears for his life even though he is armed and pursued him for at least 150. Brown finally turns around, shot at least twice already. He faces a hail of bullets from Wilson, fatally struck on the top of the skull and dies. Wilson, knowing that officers always get the benefit of the doubt with the law and there is no objective evidence of the encounter and that dead people cant testify is somewhat assured his version of events are going to be believed. And he is right. Plausible, if not convinced?
>>> Brown was not armed in any way
I think it's time to lay that "not armed in any way" to rest. Most physically fit males - especially ones of Brown's physical build - are "armed" to cause serious physical harm, up to lethal, to many other people. People regularly harm and murder other people with their bare hands (or feet, etc.) - over 800 cases happen even year[1], btw about the same as rifles and shotguns taken together. Does it mean police is justified to shoot any male? Of course not, since means to do something not equals to doing something. But it does not mean that if somebody is not wielding a shotgun, he is automatically harmless. There are a lot of ways to cause harm to people, and some of them require nothing more but the will to do it and a bit of strength.
[1] http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0310.x...
Edit: I used the word "complexion" instead of "physical appearance" meaning: "General character, aspect, or appearance:" but it looks like people took it to mean "skin color". Of course I did not mean to refer to color of his skin, it's completely irrelevant, but rather to his physical build - i.e. height, weight and fitness. Looking at the dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/complexion) my meaning appears to be old one, and now it is used as "skin color". It didn't help that in my native tongue the same word also means "physical appearance". I certainly did not mean it that way, so sorry for misleading.
It's a good idea to rephrase that.
edit - yes, a lot of black athletes have lower body fat than whites, hispanics, and asians. No, they're not "especially" armed to cause serious physical harm.
It started out about race -- "especially those of Brown complexion" isn't "zero to do with race".
Yeah, that one word really changes the meaning of that phrase.
Yes, absolutely a more reasonable statement knowing that it's the way 'complexion' is similar to 'constitution' in some languages.
Really look at that and think about it: a pale John Boehner turns into a lethal John Boehner just by adding a bit of spray tan. I put on too much bronzer and suddenly I'm a killer (perhaps a killer clown). My multiracial husband is more physically harmful after mowing the lawn in the summer, maybe even more "lethal". (The complexion change is dramatic, certainly.) Hm. The things I never knew.
There's a reason blacklivesmatter is a hashtag that resonates, and that reason is illustrated by your comment. Better go get my bronzer so I can prepare for the fight for justice.
I think it would really help if
(1) You would correct "Brown" to "Brown's" -- it is possessive, and as written its not clear if you omitted the possessive or if you mistakenly capitalized "brown", the color, and
(2) You would be even more explicit with what feature you were referring to and said "build" rather than "physical appearance" (which -- especially with the issue with "Brown" -- could still quite easily, without the extended explanation at the end of your post, be viewed as a veiled comment about race.)
Distance from the car is not relevant. Distance from Wilson is what is relevant. All shots were fired when Wilson was near Brown.
There were two shots fired at or near the car (shown by two spent casings near the car), and there is blood there showing Brown was hit. Hence Wilson was near Brown when these shots were fired.
The remaining 10 shots were all taken near were Brown's body ended up, a smidgen over 150 feet from the car. The spent casings for those 10 shots are all within 20 feet of the body. The pattern of the casings, and the location of blood stains that are not with the body, show that Brown was moving toward Wilson at this time. There is not enough evidence to ascertain his velocity.
> These deaths are wholly related to the racism of police practice in the United States
Do you really think that if a white man hits an officer in the face and tries to take the officer's gun, and then gets shot, and then runs away with the officer in pursuit, and then turns and runs toward the officer, he would not get shot several more times?
> Presenting disputed testimony as the truth is extremely misleading.
I presented no disputed testimony. Witness testimony in this case is contradictory. That's why I stuck with things that are strongly supported by the physical evidence.
Yes you did. hits an officer in the face and tries to take the officer's gun That is Wilson testimony. Not an objective fact. ...and then turns and runs toward the officer.. This also is not an objective fact. You disputed this yourself in stating that Browns velocity could not be determined. It just as plausible that he was tired, shot, and giving up. Your cognitive biases are giving Wilson the benefit of the doubt. Your statements are not pure "fact".
Wilson was treated for redness to his face, as confirmed in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuupBHUGbYo#t=1m02s
In the commonly-believed version of events, Brown would not have been able to injure Wilson's face like that, since he was supposedly running away. But since the officer's face was in fact injured, we can believe Brown must have hit it. And if he was hitting Wilson, he must have been leaning into the cruiser when he was doing it, since there was no other opportunity.
Another objective fact is that Brown was a violent individual who had just robbed a store.
There is no commonly believed version of events. There is a lot of inconsistency and disagreement about statements and testimony involved in the grand jury decision, you are attempting to paint a version of events you buy into as more valid.
> Another objective fact is that Brown was a violent individual who had just robbed a store.
When first interviewed after the shooting Wilson indicated he had no knowledge that Brown had anything to do with the store robbery. He did not make any indication over police radio about this when he encountered Brown. He changed this part of the story later on. The circumstances and eye witness testimony of the shooting after the altercation at the police car is very fuzzy and it is not clear that Brown did charge or attack Wilson a second time.
Moreover, whether Brown was aggressive or not does not imply that the police officer has a right to execute him.
The disputed versions of events see to me to be
1. How Wilson first addresses Brown (nice as Wilsons testimony or aggressive) 2. How the altercation at the car started (Brown slams door on Wilson vs wilson slamming door into brown and then who grabbed who first) 3. Brown charging Wilson vs trying to surrender.
Wilsons version of events isn't all that believable if you've had any experience with police. But I withhold judgement. The problem is we'll never know how things actually went down...though I have deep suspicions that Brown was trying to surrender after being fired upon as he ran away.
What actually bothers me about the event was that after the physical altercation ended in the car the life of Wilson was no longer threatened. But then he got out of his vehicle and chased Brown down, apparently while shooting at him. How is that a legitimate use of force?
And that's just the event itself. How the event was handled in the aftermath is even more troubling at a systematic level. The conflicts of interest that exist between a district attorney and the police force he or she has to work with every day vis a vis trying one of those officers is just too great.
I'm not naive enough to think that a not guilty verdict wouldn't have led to riots, but at the very least we should have a trial to better determine what happened there irregardless of the result.
What actually bothers me about the event was that after the physical altercation ended in the car the life of Wilson was no longer threatened. But then he got out of his vehicle and chased Brown down, apparently while shooting at him. How is that a legitimate use of force?
It's an officer's job/duty to chase down someone who just attacked them. I went into some of that at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8747052
Basically, if they're willing to attack an officer, they're definitely willing to attack anyone else in the community. Their motive isn't exactly clear, so maybe they don't pose an immediate danger to the community, but their willingness to commit physical violence is very clear at that point. So it's very important to apprehend them. Plus, if the offender later turned out to be a murder suspect, the officer would rightly get into deep trouble if they'd been attacked by them and didn't go chase them down immediately, especially if they escape and go into hiding.
What sucks is that the police department only gave him a gun and nothing else. Pepper spray or a taser would have avoided all of this madness. Or a working videocamera with audio pickups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuupBHUGbYo#t=1m02s goes to pretty great lengths to explain all of the painstaking process the jury went through to analyze the physical evidence and every piece of witness testimony. I wholeheartedly recommend anyone who's interested in all of this or considering joining the Brown protests to watch that whole video. It seems difficult to think that the physical evidence is unreliable or that conflicts of interests may have caused the jury to ignore parts of the physical evidence. Though I suppose anything is possible.
Dorian Johnson's story is that Wilson almost ran them over, slammed his door into them, and then grabbed Brown and pulled him through the window. IF Michael Brown is struggling to get free after being unnecessarily assaulted by Wilson and then sees Wilson draw his gun then of course he is going to strike the officer trying to flee.
And this is why the situation is so troubling. The witness testimony is all over the place and unreliable (as it usually is), and it leaves open huge variations in how the events transpired.
Yes, Wilson was struck somehow. But we don't know who initiated the conflict and that has a huge bearing on what happens next.
Yes, Brown was shot in the car. But we have no idea if he actually got ahold of the gun in Wilsons hand and was aiming it at Wilson. Wilson could have simply pulled the gun out and started firing.
Yes, we know that Brown ran away and was chased.
Yes, we know he was shot facing Wilson. But we don't know if he was standing still surrendering or charging.
I've read a huge chunk of the grand jury testimony and looked at a lot of the evidence and the only reasonable conclusion that you can come to is "I don't know what happened".
two other things. First, I'm sure most people believe that if a police officer tells you to do something you do it. That might be really good advice, especially if you have brown skin, but I think it's not reasonable to blindly obey over-aggressive and unfounded requests just because the person has a badge.
Second, police tend to escalate situations way beyond what is necessary and my gut says the Ferguson event is a perfect example if you hedge against Wilsons whitewashed version.
One more thing...police need to be evaluated on a different metric then simply arrests. Killing a fleeing suspect should almost always be an intolerable event inside the police department. Letting the guy get away is almost always the better alternative (almost being the key word). But, as you said, that would get the officer in trouble. Which is just dumb.
> But what if Brown wasn't attacking the officer but defending himself?
We actually got into a bit of a debate at dinner discussing if you have the right to defend yourself against an unjust arrest -- short version: "nope". In 1900 there was a case that went that way, but since then it was been reversed... and even more specifically overruled in various state ordinances. Even if you did have the right to physical resist (again, you don't, so don't resist arrest) an "unjust arrest" ... you aren't informed of the reason you are being arrested at the time of arrest, you don't have enough information to even claim it is unjust.
> If Michael Brown is struggling to get free after being unnecessarily assaulted by Wilson and then sees Wilson draw his gun then of course he is going to strike the officer trying to flee.
This is put forth as factual "of course". But, it isn't the common case -- most people when assaulted (justified or not) by a police officer surrender, and if it escalates to having a gun drawn... they... you guessed it, surrender. The vast majority of police officers make it to retirement without firing their weapon while on duty.
> First, I'm sure most people believe that if a police officer tells you to do something you do it. That might be really good advice, especially if you have brown skin, but I think it's not reasonable to blindly obey over-aggressive and unfounded requests just because the person has a badge.
You can think what you want, but you have NO RIGHT to EVER resist arrest, that is the simple fact, there is no law on your side, and it will end horribly for you. You submit, you get arrested, you offer NO resistance and then you take action AFTER the fact (sue, try to get them fired, take it to the press, whatever).
> I think it's not reasonable to blindly obey over-aggressive and unfounded requests
which is a perspective that will LITERALLY get someone killed if they believe it. That is why I used uppercase, because it is actually really important, not everyone takes the time to properly research what rights they have (and don't have).
As to your last line. I realize that legally you are correct, but I just can accept that you have to be compliant because of a badge...especially when we live in a society that has a horrible track record of justice when people with brown complexion are involved. Action after the fact, especially with the rate of discipline and conviction of police officers, is just not a very realistic option.
And pie definitely beats cake! ;)
I'm really interested to know what you could mean. Isn't it, well, kind of mistaken to feel like we shouldn't cooperate with officers? The power asymmetry is just too great, on a practical level. But beyond the cold facts, it seems like the basis of a functional society is to cooperate. In a situation where there's an injustice, the media might be able to help if you write up a compelling story, though it's true that'd be a remediation after the problem occurred. It just seems like not cooperating will cause more problems than it could possibly solve, in every possible case. So it's interesting to me, and I'd love to get your perspective on some situation where it could be helpful.
In a society where the citizens respect the police and the police respect the citizens then the Ferguson issue probably doesn't happen. And that's the issue I have. It's an us against them mentality on both sides. Cops are hated, so they don't get out in their communities to meet people, so they are viewed as "invading", they only show up to take your loved ones and their friends away, so they are hated, etc.
So yeah, the power asymmetry is too great, and it doesn't need to be for officers to be effective. In fact, I think it's doing the opposite. It's making their jobs harder.
How do you do that with a "teen" of that size?
http://awesci.com/the-astonishingly-funny-story-of-mr-mcarth...
I didn't mean he pulled his whole body in through the window. That would be very difficult to do!
This type of verbal hostility is probably what got Wilson attacked in the first place. He set the fight button off. Not saying Brown was right.. he wasn't right, and he was stupid. Once he let his temper get the better of him, his shooting was all but inevitable.
But I think this is what people are protesting against as much as anything. Not shootings necessarily, but the general dickish, hostile attitude of police. Especially against certain groups.
I'm just wondering if there's an audio recording or some such.
There is a reason people are so angry. And I think it's more than a kid (who even the most sympathetic must secretly understand brought it upon himself) getting shot. People in some communities are sick of being treating with lack of respect at nearly all turns by law enforcement. I can't say I blame them.
(edited after thanks and upvote. apologies if content was changed substantially.)
"[Americans'] sense of equality and human dignity is mainly limited to men of white skins. Even among these there are prejudices of which I as a Jew am clearly conscious"
As a non-black person of color, this has been my access point to issues of race and oppression. Thinking about the (relatively) minor prejudices and indignities I've experienced made me a lot more receptive to the idea that things just aren't right for a lot of people. That oppression is real. And it's also made me aware of the privilege that I do enjoy as a college-educated male who's the son of college educated parents.
This is a very prescient and relevant piece by Einstein. I'm glad it's on HN!
People have been noticing this and pointing it out for a long, long time. Surely Einstein would observe similar treatments as well, particularly because of his fresh perspective.
It's been troubling seeing any links about the Ferguson and Eric Garner protests wiped from Hacker News before they attract very many upvotes. The issues being debated encompass government action, fundamental technology and privacy rights, as well as race, but they're being ignored here for the most part and I don't understand exactly why.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/us/thousands-march-in-wash...
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2014/dec/13/police-k...
There are plenty of other forums with different intended purposes where such discussions are less ephemeral than on HN.
Plus, how can we talk about wanting to have a 'diverse' Silicon Valley and ignore black people getting killed in the streets?
What's scary about privilege is that it's usually invisible.
I think it's fair to say that the majority of humans experience both prejudice and privelege, albeit of radically different quantities and qualities. But while we can't help but be keenly aware of the former, the latter tends to hide itself in our definitions of "normal".
No, they're not. A child may benefit from the privileges of parents' favoritism, it doesn't imply that her siblings are oppressed.
Privilege and Oppression are 2 distinct coins with 2 faces each. There's privilege (+1) and lack thereof (0), and there's oppression (-1) and lack thereof (0).
Being well aware of your privileges won't necessarily make you see people in "the norm" as victims, but it may give you pause when trying to form a hasty opinion of them.
Unfortunately, as stated, it's much harder to recognize one's own privileges, than it is to identify a form of oppression. So people keep presuming to know what everybody else should be, should do, should think, should eat, etc, because they presume that the apparent lack of prejudice signals a levelled playing field.
"But is there any one thus intended by nature to be a slave, and for whom such a condition is expedient and right, or rather is not all slavery a violation of nature?"
"There is no difficulty in answering this question, on grounds both of reason and of fact. For that some should rule and others be ruled is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule."
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.html
edit - mind you, he also had a tendency to write stuff like: "If a woman looks at a highly polished mirror during the menstrual period, the surface of the mirror becomes like a blood shot cloud", so it isn't as though the slavery thing is a small unfortunate oversight in some otherwise wise philosophy. If you forget for a minute that you are dealing with Aristotle, he is consistently quite considerably bonkers, and seemingly just winging it through a lot of his writing, though there is plenty of genius in there as well.
> Such are the power given to women in their families in the hope that they will inform against their husbands, and the license which is allowed to slaves in order that they may betray their masters; for slaves and women do not conspire against tyrants; and they are of course friendly to tyrannies and also to democracies, since under them they have a good time.
Book 5.
Part 8:
"The reason why snakes are limbless is first that nature makes nothing without purpose, but always regards what is the best possible for each individual, preserving the peculiar essence of each and its intended character, and secondly the principle we laid down above that no Sanguineous creature can move itself at more than four points. Granting this it is evident that Sanguineous animals like snakes, whose length is out of proportion to the rest of their dimensions, cannot possibly have limbs; for they cannot have more than four (or they would be bloodless), and if they had two or four they would be practically stationary; so slow and unprofitable would their movement necessarily be. "
Aristotle's production is full of enumerations of the observable phenomena but the science as we know it today got going only after people started to figure out they actually should test the conclusions they drew from their observations and found out that Aristotle was in several places in fact not correct but merely blowing so much hot air to impress his audiences.
I was not questioning the cultural merits of his legacy, but merely the practical. His political and pedagogic writings are far more interesting, IMO, as studies of the human condition.
While the roots of science have several offshoots buried in greece soil the tree started to seriously bear any fruit only after Baconian inquiry was accepted by the european intelligentzia.
It is also there he insists that flies have four legs.
(Yes, there is a particular insect from his area that seemingly only has four legs -- but it is still daft.)
Aristotle proposed in Book 1 of Politics that certain human beings were natural slaves, as different from the free citizens of Athens as human beings were from beasts. He argued that barbarians deserved enslavement because they lacked souls.
Back in 1550, Aristotle was marshalled in an important debate on race: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valladolid_debate
While much of the debate was around the notion that Spain had the right to conquer the Americas, a major part of Bartolomé de las Casas' debate with Juan Ginés de Sepúlveda centred on the rights of Native Americans. Both men were humanist theologians and well versed in classical works, so Aristotle's idea of Natural Slavery was central to their cases.
De las Casas argued that native Americans were worthy of the same rights as European Christians because they were rational human beings with souls, not natural slaves. Years later, De las Casas expanded this idea to a universal statement that no human being regardless of race deserved slavery.
Sepúlveda took Aristotle on face value and argued that Native Americans were natural slaves and as such didn't deserve to be treated as rational human beings, he made the odious argument that enslaving them was a paternal response which improved their lives.
It's important to note that the debate on the shared humanity of the races and their human rights is an argument that is at least half a millennium old.
It's human nature -- even for people who realize they're no Einstein or Aristotle -- to believe that they know what they're talking about; and it's also human nature to get defensive, since their self-image is often wrapped up in their outlook. If you invoke Aristotle, you give a person an "out." You allow a person the freedom to examine his beliefs while shielding his fragile self-image from coming apart. He can conclude, "I was wrong, but that's okay. Even Aristotle was wrong."
Aristotle and Einstein aside, what I'm getting at is this "Fox News vs MSNBC" divide that we have in this country is not doing any of us any good. We can either appeal to people's sympathies, or brand people as self-satisfied, socially irresponsible, head-in-the-sand enablers of the status quo. I think the first is the better strategy. I also think the tone of Einstein's letter is much, much nearer the first than the second.
If we had everyone in the country run a race and the fastest were forced to move to the west coast and the slowest forced to move to the east coast and we waited a generation, people would start saying west coast people are fast in general. And they wouldn't be incorrect. So I don't see anything wrong with Aristotle saying the group of people who end up slaves are inferior, they provably are because they've been tested and selected for failure.
Saying Greeks are superior to Iranians or some other general pronouncement about ethnicity and attributes may not be correct, the DNA of the human race is mostly the same between ethnicities anyway, but saying Greeks are superior to the group of people they defeated in battle and enslaved in person is a tautology.
That said, I do think Aristotle was insightful enough to realize this. Just a guess, but many times when people say stupid things there were social pressures to make these declarations in support of the existing society.
What you said, could easily be used in attempt to say American slavery was justified. Most people realize taking advantage of people is in no way a demonstration of superiority.
Have you ever made a mistake? Do you crush every mortal that crosses your path? I don't think so.
edit - also, his views on slavery somewhat stretch the definition of what we and most of his contemporaries would necessarily regard as slavery. This being Aristotle.
He is still really just excusing the slavery of his time however.
He states: "all are not either slaves by nature or freemen by nature, and also that there is in some cases a marked distinction between the two classes, rendering it expedient and right for the one to be slaves and the others to be masters: the one practicing obedience, the others exercising the authority and lordship which nature intended them to have. The abuse of this authority is injurious to both; for the interests of part and whole, of body and soul, are the same, and the slave is a part of the master, a living but separated part of his bodily frame. Hence, where the relation of master and slave between them is natural they are friends and have a common interest, but where it rests merely on law and force the reverse is true."
and also:
"And again, no one would ever say he is a slave who is unworthy to be a slave."
This would suggest that the easiest way to not be Aristotle's slave would be to tell him to sod off and do his own cleaning, though I suspect the reality may have been different.
It's a very complicated question/topic. One that I think people are very uncomfortable discussing honestly, precisely because it makes us question preconceived notions about race. Then again, that's usually the case with social concepts.
Your mistake here is to confuse a temporary strategic superiority that confers success in battle or even in war with some sort of moral or intellectual superiority. Back in World War 2 Hitler undoubtedly displayed strategic superiority at first (although the roots of German success go back to the late stages of WW1, when German generals 'banked' some of their military technology within newly Communist Russia, an arrangement which evolved into the non-aggression pact between Hitler and Stalin). But Hitler, like many conquerors before, fell victim to hubris and overreached when he should have consolidated. Despite being a political and military genius, his misplaced assumption of innate racial and cultural superiority (largely adopted from Prussian Kultur) proved to be a strategic weakness.
I am firmly convinced that whoever believes this suffers from a fatal misconception.
Although it has clear political implications, the last part of the quote-within-a-quote ("They are not our equals…") is a scientific hypothesis. Does it strike you that people who take the opposite view of Einstein's—or who even consider its possibility—are treated as merely mistaken? As suffering from a misconception? No—they are treated with opprobrium, condemned with epithets (racist, fascist, etc.), and purged from civil society.
No reasonable person denies that the ancestors of slaves were mistreated, but as an explanation for group differences this is not mutually exclusive with cultural or biological factors that may have nothing to do with past oppression. Unfortunately, this subject is not treated as a scientific matter—it has become a political fight. Einstein appears to be "ahead of his time" not because of the triumph of his scientific arguments but because his political allies have been consistently advancing.
That's what happens when you end up neighbors with the great great grandson of the bloke your great great granddaddy paid to have kidnapped and shipped to the country as a piece of equipment.
Sure you can argue over the details about what their family have been like to be around in the intervening time, but don't be surprised if the conversation gets back around to the question of who exactly kidnapped who in the first place.
Is pretty pointless to winge about it being political.
Don't overestimate the original sin of current white Americans.
People who continue to advance a hypothesis long after the data falsifies it, in order to support political views that are, subject to the true facts, immoral, should in fact be purged from civil society.
No, black people are not innately inferior in any physical, intellectual, or moral sense.
No, women are not innately inferior in any physical, intellectual, or moral sense.
No, Jews are not conspiring to take over the world.
Yes, you are a racist, and yes, you should leave the public eye right now. Nobody will miss you, as you've done nothing but attempt to muddy waters that were long-since cleared up.
The facts cannot speak, and thus, alas, cannot repeat themselves until you actually bother to listen, but I for one am tired of your like.
More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help -- the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." And yet, it's disappointing how segregated America still is today. One fairly in-depth study [1] offers an example of how "today" came to be. (This report is not about any current events, but rather a detailed account of city zoning over a few decades.)
Maybe instead of forcing segregation, or forcing integration, freedom of association could be tried?
Conversely, if you mix two fluids which have a segregating force, you don't expect them to stay mixed. Intrinsic properties of the fluids drive the level of segregation - anything else is just temporary.
But maybe I'm just a physicist overreaching beyond my field. Why do you believe initial condition is important?
[edit: simulations posted elsewhere in the thread agree with this: http://ncase.me/polygons/ ]
As it stands, today Palestinian's are in camps, today Ethiopian Jews are deported, and all the while the past sins of the gentiles are ever decried on the airwaves.
No?
Okay then.
While he's at it, though, I really hope he's going to explain how I'm wrong, and not just blow his whistle, scream about fallacies, and say it's a five yard penalty, still second down.
You could also write a model where people have different innate preferences over the lifestyle they want to lead, and so self-sorting is an unambiguously good thing.
I understand that everyone wants "math" to be on their side, but it's not really mathematics that is doing the work here, it's your assumptions.
What the model does demonstrate is that the set and distribution of viewpoints that will lead to desegrated neighbourhoods is far smaller than people tend to think. It is much easier to end up with segregation than most people would expect, even with predominantly mostly benign views in most of the population.
It demonstrates the consequences of a modeling different distributions of attitudes in a particular way.
>What the model does demonstrate is that the set and distribution of viewpoints that will lead to desegrated neighbourhoods is far smaller than people tend to think. It is much easier to end up with segregation than most people would expect, even with predominantly mostly benign views in most of the population.
It does not demonstrate this, because the parameters and details of the model have no relation to reality. In order for your claim to be true, there would have to be some mapping from real world conditions, to the parameters of the model.
All this model demonstrates is that for some parameters, individual preference for similarity of neighbors dominates over preference for diversity of the community. Which is (to me) obvious anyway.
One model in isolation can appear compelling, as some other posts in this thread indicate. But you can't view them in isolation, because all the model shows is that a simulation with certain properties exists. The problem is that:
1. There are a huge number of ways to model the same process. There are many details of the model that could be changed or tweaked, each giving different results. This is a bigger problem for agent based simulations than traditional game-theoretic/economic models (although it's a pretty big problem in both cases).
2. Even if you know that your model is the "right" one for the process you're interesting, in the real world all kinds of processes are interlinked. E.g. racial segregation is highly linked with Southern vs Northern, rural vs urban and wealthy vs poor. It's possible that there things swamp the process that the simulation is modeling. Even if they don't they can make the data so messy that it's impossible to test the model empirically (not that there was any attempt in this case).
The model is defined in terms of the attitudes.
If the model does not match the stated definition of the attitudes, then that is a bug in the code, not being creative about how to model those attitudes.
> It does not demonstrate this, because the parameters and details of the model have no relation to reality.
You say that, yet you go on to contradict yourself:
> All this model demonstrates is that for some parameters, individual preference for similarity of neighbors dominates over preference for diversity of the community. Which is (to me) obvious anyway.
The model shows that you can assemble a wide range of attitudes that most people wouldn't dream of considering racist, yet that still contributes to make segregation worse.
That's certainly not been the prevailing attitude. A lot of people that are strongly in favour of desegregation have been assuming that relatively small steps (e.g. getting people to be fina about moving into mixed areas) would be sufficient to over time lead to desegregation.
Yet the model blows that idea out of the water.
That there are other factors is largely irrelevant to addressing this attitude.
I'm not so sure. I went to a very diverse and large high school in NJ and what ends up happening is self segregation. All the ethnic groups would mostly end up hanging out with their own types.
EDIT: see e.g http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation
[1]: http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html though it seems to be down now
I don't know if there is a way to change this. The cultures are very different between white, black, and Hispanic. We even speak different dialects.
Unless you want to start forcing one culture to conform to another, de facto segregation is the likely outcome.
I grew up in Spokane, WA -- 87% white by demographic survey, 98% people who look white if all you know about race is what you learned in Social Studies in elementary school. :) But what I was dominantly taught about who 'my people' were came from Christianity -- Christ died for everyone. My tribe is humanity. I was not raised to think race was important, and I didn't. That upbringing is with me to this day. I didn't reflexively categorize people by race, and I still don't. It's not something I even notice unless attention is called to it somehow.
Other people from the region were raised differently. The inland pacific northwest is a region that white supremacists like, and we had them.
Growing up in a racial monoculture, you could wind up totally innocent and clueless (like me) or totally racist (like some people I knew of), and probably a lot of other things. It really depended on what you were taught.
The same can happen in diverse cultures, too.
When I moved to Seattle, there was a lot more racial diversity. It still didn't mean anything to me, but it clearly meant things to others, and some people made quite a big deal out of it. I had an amusing conversation with a fellow visiting from the UK about it:
Him: So . . . what is *with* your black people?
Me: Excuse me?
Him: Well, back home, we have black people, too.
But . . . they're just regular people.
The racial diversity in Seattle and in the UK did not result in the same attitudes! Of course, there are other 'tribes' over on that side of the world that do matter. But they aren't the same ones as matter over here.All in all, I think it's not what you're exposed to. It's how you think about it. If you see race, or gender, or religion, or age, or profession, or interests, or lifestyle as what makes someone 'your people', you can't help but have loyalties and opinions about what it means to be in or out of that circle. It doesn't matter if you meet foreigners (by your definition) every day, or once or twice a lifetime.
Whether you think it is true or not, I see the USA as much more segregated than Europe, and so the culture differences are exacerbated between the races.
I think the main problem is that most people lack a true passion for anything. Even many people of the same race don't get along well because they have no real interest in anything. If they don't even share the same race (i.e. have even more different properties), shit is about to get real.
Based on that theory I would guess that you see less racism amongst hackers, musicians, athletes etc.
Humans may have made great progress technologically. But having neat digital watches didn't help society as a whole to grow intellectually to the same extend.
Who cares about that? Just having that question is an implicit assumption that race matters.
I'm going with good, fair, and free mass education. All the way to college. If everyone gets the same level of education then no one will FEEL out of place in any culture as they will be aware of common cultural differences through education.
Good education repairs a LOT of social ills.
For whatever it is worth, I think income inequality (between rich and poor, all races) is probably the biggest inhibitor to this problem. Motivated-yet-poor people cannot easily break out of their groups, with no money for college and (alot of times) a criminal record preventing them from enlisting in the service. If you have resources you have choices, and the poor have very little in the way of choice. And the affluent who do have a choice will almost always make the choice to not live among those who have nothing to lose, whatever their color may be.
Yes, actually, it is. It's fine to say you disagree with the course of action because you believe it is immoral or ineffective, but it is absolutely a course of action.
> We should be trying to root out whatever the underlying causes are that lead us to segregate ourselves into the groups that we end up in.
One of these causes is "that's how it has always been". How would you propose to root out this one?
Treating the symptom helps alleviate the problems experienced by people of color who are alive today. Addressing the cause could take a long, long time.
It's far from certain. For example, Harvard social scientist Robert Putnam has (tentatively and, I think, somewhat reluctantly) suggested the opposite. Here's an interview he did for National Public Radio:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1280266...
Money quote:
Social scientist Robert Putnam, probably best known for his work "Bowling Alone," on the decline of civic engagement, wanted to know does diversity have an impact on our sense of community? His recent finding suggest that diversity might not make us stronger. In fact, it might just be the opposite. It might make us less inclined to participate in civic life, at least in the short term.
The faster we demonstrate to our younger generations that our erroneous tradition must be corrected, the faster the goals of more diversity and elimination of racial bias can be achieved.
If I were to ask, "what can a man of good will do to combat tornado calamities", would you respond with a "more air temperature homogeneity would certainly help"?
We can't reasonably engineer or create "neighborhood diversity". There are some policies that have tried to accomplish this, and they fail miserably. The "diversity" ends up artificial and hollow, and does nothing for prejudice. In some cases it seems to amplify it.
> the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us."
There can never be an "us" when we're talking about the 300 million people in the United States. There can't even be an "us" if you're talking about the 8 million in New York City, or the 500,000 in Atlanta.
Human beings are limited in their ability to form an "us", and it's in the low hundreds.
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/12/R...
There is a liberal-conservative correlation on the map, a but far stronger correlation is the racial makeup of the state. The "deep roots" of racism don't seem to go away with exposure. Other empirical data, such as Robert Putnam's work mentioned in another comment, suggest just the opposite.
No, what is harmful is the vindictive, hyper-vigilant collectivist attitude that persists in a ham-handed attempt at "leveling the playing field." The idea that certain groups of people (blacks, women, gays, etc) need compulsory protection at the expense of other groups (white males), induces a sort of resentment as a response to what is perceived to be a witch hunt. For example, certain events - such as the destruction of Paula Dean for admitting to saying the word "nigger" in the past, or Brendan Eich's dismissal as CEO for his donations against gay marriage - and certain policies - such as affirmative action or the greatly lopsided outcomes of most child custody battles - evoke an understandable, but completely irrational, feeling of resentment towards those groups as a backlash for perceived unfair treatment. It's this "us vs. them" victim mentality that's the problem in mainstream America. That's where the real racist attitudes come from, not some sort of widespread, conscious conclusion that certain groups are intrinsically inferior to others.
The answer is not collectivist protections or more anti-racism vigilance, it is to look beyond our superficial differences and to consider all people as individuals with an equal capacity to love and to be loved. Racism is an outdated idea. Let it die on its own.
Edit: Also, because racism is illogical. Irrational ideas tend to be replaced by good ones in the "free market" of ideas. There is no reason to beat tolerance into people, simply show show them the compassion and unity that equality leads to, and contrast that with the ridiculous KKK guys in goofy white cone hats and piss-stained bed sheets and let them make up their own mind.
The "free market of ideas" only works if you assume everyone is a rational actor judging ideas on their direct merits. That simply is not the case.
Racism isn't close to being over. Maybe go talk to some people who aren't white and see what they think?
This is a rather optimistic statement. It's actually quite hard to get people thinking critically, and to push rationalist and scientific points of view in the public mind.
A lot of the cultural Marxist agendas being promoted in recent years are based on bad data and slanted measurements (e.g. the "pay gap" between men and women, which disappears when you control for hours worked, age, and other important variables). Such agendas are explicitly aimed at going well beyond mere "fairness" (i.e. equality of opportunity) and are aimed at seizing power from disfavored groups, and reallocating it to favored groups.
A cultural Marxist is a person who supports such developments.
Bill Lind has some good commentary on the subject: http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness...
Now I'm going to need to see a lot of sources about this, because multiple societies have been announcing that multiculturalism Just Doesn't Work for them, and there has not been even a pastiche of socialism around since the '90s or so.
The term is really just a shorthand reference to the kind of social, political, and ideological ideas that a "progressive" university student absorbs (or is expected to absorb) during the course of his or her 4+ years in a contemporary American university.
And no, the Frankfurt School are not "cultural Marxists". This is a term nobody has ever applied to himself.
But there's a continuum of thought between these otherwise distinct concepts, which is where the "cultural Marxism" name comes in, as a unifying tag.
We don't have a racism of segregation anymore. It's a racism of omission. Instead there are pay gaps, unfair justice, stereotypes and erasure. EG: It's not that we censor out black music on the radio, we just prefer it when a white person sings it (macklemore, iggy azalea, eminem, miley, etc).
It works the same way as telling woman: "oh I don't see you as a woman in the workplace. I don't expect you to get pregnant or have health issues different from men. I expect you to have someone at home who takes care of your kids (like a wife would). And then I will subconsciously expect you to be more caring and nice than your male coworkers (if you disagree with anything I say I will call you a frigid bitch)". The roles we put women in are gendered, like EG: we don't expect a secretary to be a woman but if she is, she'll get very different treatment from a male secretary (who is more likely to be called Operations, won't have to pick up everybody's laundry and order lunch, etc. This happens for real).
Back to racism. Racism is still a _big_ problem for a lot of people. Police can strangle black people _on camera_ and get away without even a trial. Cops drove up to a black child with a toy gun, shot him, then did not even call an ambulance or provide emergency CPR. Police officers barged into a house and shot a 7 year old black girl while she was sleeping. (They said they had the wrong house). No repercussions. Not a settlement, not an apology, no reaction.
Young black men are 21 more times more likely to be shot by a police officer than their white counterparts.
When you tell someone 'I don't see you black' what you are saying is "I am ignoring the struggles you face on a daily basis and also will continue to subconsciously treat you negatively". Ask a black person how many times they get called Bro, homie, or 'my nigga' by people 'who don't see them as black'. And in the public consciousness, black people are seen as demons, monsters, thugs. (further reading: the blue eye brown eye experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZKWkhnSb5k)
> The idea that certain groups of people (blacks, women, gays, etc) need compulsory protection at the expense of other groups (white males), induces a sort of resentment as a response to what is perceived to be a witch hunt.
White males have been oppressing these marginalized groups for millennia. White male culture is homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, and racist too. If you would like examples I can give plenty. If you want stats I can give those too.
Brendan Eich's dismissal isn't irrational. A group of people decided that they didn't want a homophobic CEO.
I think the reason these events might seen incoherent is because they look like small, one time things that bring up a large public reaction, one person's slip-up here or a wrong sentence uttered here. But:
1) The things said reflect a deep hatred of the group they are against. You have really hate black people to nigger like Paula Dean did. Eich is clearly homophobic if he donates to anti gay marriage groups.
2) They might seem like one group is targeted out of the blue, but to the oppressed group these events are another thing on the long list of violence done against them. For example, if you were a woman at a tech conference and heard a thousand different dongle jokes, POSIX forking references, images of naked women, etc, on the thousand and oneth dongle joke you might get angry too. That might be seen as irrational, because hey, it's just a joke... It's not. Culture is the sum total of our collective experiences, it's made of a gajillion little things put together. People have the right to complain about these little things, like t-shirts that don't fit women at conferences. If everywhere you looked you found 'little' examples of people like you getting the short end of the stick, you wouldn't be too happy either.
3) Sometimes these things might seem out of the blue because of the way collective consciousness works. Recently twitter directed a lot of attention at a company called Strange Fruit PR. The words Strange Fruit refer to a song about lynchings, where trees in the South 'bear strange fruit', aka dead black men. If we saw a PR company called Holocaust PR or something like "arbeit macht frei" PR (a common sign posted in nazi concentration camps that said "work makes you free") we'd also freak out. Strange Fruit is two years old and it just came to twitter's attention, so it seems out of the blue, but it's just happened now because a critical mass of people found out about it recently. Sometimes it takes a while to build the political momentum to have a conversation on something.
> It's this "us vs. them" victim mentality that's the problem in mainstream America.
Black people in the US have as a group been enslaved, raped, economically enslaved, lynched, raped, denied votes, denied education, denied space in the community, denied housing, denied loans (see redlining), ignored, shot by the police, etc for the entire history of America (those where random examples). I don't think it's very human to tell them to ignore the past (and ongoing racism) and that there is no longer a 'us' and a 'them'.
If you disagree I would like to know why you don't think the above applies.
As for the justice system, yes it is heavily skewed towards punishing minorities, particularly because of the drug war. I don't know how we fix that, but I do think ending the war on drugs would go a long way.
Your post can be summarized as believing we have not made as much progress as I think we have, but I am a bit more optimistic, and we need to begin converging on a permanent state of affairs, being carful not to over correct, lest we increase racial tension and regress. The only way towards true equality is to learn from our history, but at the same time look to the future while being careful not to make the same mistakes. This means that modern individuals belonging to historically disenfranchised groups should not receive preferential treatment just because their ancestors were mistreated. We need a healing process, not pay-back. It's the quickest, most painless way we're going to eventually reach true harmony as a species.
Everyone is part of an arbitrary collective of traits (most of us here are white, male, American, etc) and each trait affects how we see each other. For example, women are seen as more caring, or bitchy if they have power, whatever. Those stereotypes are bad, and we can't ignore that they still happen.
The way we get rid of these biases things is by recognizing that when we think a woman is being bitchy (or, say a black man angry) it's likely to be our ingrained sexism (/racism). Seeing people as human beings first erases their identities and _removes the opportunity to fix our prejudices_. You and I are both prejudiced, we have to recognize that, and work to remove it from our minds.
Then, on the optimism/pessimism thing. Just keep on investigating the experiences of black people and I think you might become less optimistic about where we are.
It's sometimes tough to see how other people could be disadvantaged (that's called privilege). But when this list of benefits white people have over black people http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html#daily doesn't hold any more, _then_ we can get rid of black history month.
We can't overcorrect yet, because, broadly, our institutions themselves are still racist. (See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/15/884649/-Why-there-s... or http://femmagazine.com/reverse-racism-and-reverse-sexism-don...) You don't punch someone in the face then repent with "I'm sorry that happened to you, but it's in the past, you need to heal". That's not true equality. True equality is you apologize, pay for their hospital bills and help them get their life back and recover from what was done to them in the past. That's a true "healing process". Some people see affirmative action as getting punched back, but it's not. Marginalized people's ancestors being mistreated puts them where they are now and we are _continuing_ to mistreat them by not helping them recover from that.
The difference between this and a "witch hunt" is that real witch hunts didn't find a bunch of witches.
http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-jus...
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thorncoyle/2014/11/an-open-lett...
Key takeaway, in my opinion, and this extends beyond racial prejudices.
The quote in question? "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Even if it was misattributed, it's still one hell of a motto to live by.
Racism, sexism, homophobia, drugs, guns, taxes, war, spying, all of it are just distractions because whether the issue goes left or right won't matter to most people. What really matters is whether or not people can feed their children, have a roof over their heads, have something meaningful to do with their time, be warm in the winter, be free from violence. These are the things that matter, but we're all caught up in bikeshedding over how to get there.
And in the process, a very small group of people get to come in and unilaterally take action to fill their own pockets. Everything else that happens is the rest of us playing Lord of the Flies.
Isms will end when the majority takes up the cause of the minority, because in actuality, it's their/our cause, too.
Isms will always exist because not all of us are equal and we will never be; and I'm not saying that with a discriminating tone, what I mean is that you have to be completely retarded (excuse me, but it's true) to actually believe and state that we are all the same. We all like different stuff, we all have different ways to achieve our goals, we even have (VERY) different moral foundations to asses whether something should be right or wrong.
On the other hand, most of us are used to live under the terrible premise to puts oneself (and thus, its kind) before others. Put these two facts together and everything that has happened (and will continue to happen) throughout our history becomes obvious.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/how-eins...
I want to do more, but... "What can men do in the face of such reckless hate?"
http://qz.com/250701/12-things-white-people-can-do-now-becau...
And I think this article is really helpful for perspective:
http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-jus...
It's hard to take the rest of what he says seriously with all that baggage..
http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence...
The first chapter gives a very good rationale for where hatred and subjugation of the 'other' comes from and the book traces how this kind of socialized violence evolved over the ages.
Sadly on the matter of unequal race relations these words ring nearly as true in 2014 as they did in 1946.
I bet at least the number of people who posted want to say the same thing, but have refrained from posting. I bet frikkin' Paul Graham thinks the same thing (maybe gentler) - he's alluded to 'inexpressible ideas about race' (paraphrase) in one essay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uQ...
In any discussion about racism, the stratified-by-race-IQ-chart invariably gets brought up (crtl-f for "itjustdontwork" for its latest rendition in this thread). Jane Elliott's video helped me to find a new perspective on the IQ chart data.
http://www.onbeing.org/program/einstein039s-god-einstein039s...
"A large part of our attitude toward things is conditioned by opinions and emotions which we unconsciously absorb as children from our environment. In other words, it is tradition—besides inherited aptitudes and qualities—which makes us what we are. We but rarely reflect how relatively small as compared with the powerful influence of tradition is the influence of our conscious thought upon our conduct and convictions"
just wow. This gives me alot to reflect on and goes much deeper than racial prejudices. This can be applied to alot of areas in my life. I was one of the top in my high school class for math, and skated through college pretty easily. Came out being kind of cocky then learned pretty quickly how little I actually knew. The past few years have really really given me perspective. Speaking for myself, I seem to grow much faster when I humble myself and acknowledge my areas that need improvement.
As Slavic I find this inaccurate and bit offensive :-)
There is no scientific definition of "white", it is a social construct that has changed to be more inclusive as various groups integrated into American society.
It's amusing that bringing up facts in a community ostensibly self-selected to prize discovery and reason is sufficient cause to be silenced.
pg and the community he fostered has come a long way since this: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html
Edit: would just like to point out that I was flagkilled before any response came, so currently my post is invisible in this thread.
I think Bacon (both Roger and Francis) also used thought experiments to great effect.