Yahoo Starts Prompting Chrome Users to “Upgrade” to Firefox
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These days it often feels faster than Chrome.
1. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2203672
2. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox/Developer_Editio...
Chrome works fine on the vast majority of Linux distros. Even if a page hangs, Chrome doesn't crash...
I'm not saying there's no problem, I'm just offering my experience to demonstrate that perhaps the problem isn't just "Chrome runs poorly on Linux Mint", and to offer a counterexample to "Linux Mint is a buggy mess".
I use all browsers for website testing, but my primary is Chrome at the moment, looking to head back to FF.
I've been using $RELATIVELY_FRESH_BROWSER_INSTALL again recently. I stopped when it was slower and less stable than $BROWSER_I_HAVE_NOW_BEEN_USING_A_LONG_TIME.
These days it often feels faster than $BROWSER_I_HAVE_NOW_BEEN_USING_A_LONG_TIME.
I also use Aurora which is still super fast to me. I also develop with Chrome Canary and the stable Chrome version. Canary has times when its totally useless or when someone breaks the build and I can't use it for a week so until the next update comes out.
All in all, yes, less overhead means a snappier browser to me.
Of course, if you don't want that, you're sweet.
1. “(Firefox|Chrome) is slow” 2. “Did you try removing Ad-Block Plus, etc.?” 3. “Now it's fast again!”
I think we're well past the point where the browsers are going to need to start having some UI around monitoring and exposing slow extensions to make it easier for users to learn this.
The support page lists "Extensions and themes, website-specific preferences, search engines, download history, DOM storage, security settings, download actions, plugin settings, toolbar customizations, user styles and social features will be removed."
[1]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/reset-firefox-easily-fi...
Here is a large history causing slow load times; https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223476
Here is their recommendations regarding download history, which I myself have experienced (too many downloads remembered forever slows down the browser) https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-hangs-or-not-re...
There is nothing inherent in the design of A hypothetical browser that would make it slower over time, its just a matter of people make assumptions and those assumptions are often wrong, and then performance suffers.
I've been using Firefox for a few years (switched back from Chrome), but it's IE for me on the Surface until someone else does proper touchscreen support. The only time I open Firefox on here is when I need a bookmark that's synced from my desktop or phone.
Weird; I switched from FF to Chrome specifically because FF was a huge memory hog. I have read that it is better these days though.
-- what does the downvoting mean here exactly? That I didn't experience excessive memory usage in FF and I'm lying?
Yup, it does. My problem with FF years ago was with leaks. It would eventually bring my entire system to a state of paging hell until I killed it. That was years ago though, I've since become comfortable with chrome and haven't found aneed to go back.
Compartments are similar in many ways, but also very different. Both processes and compartments shield JavaScript objects against each other.
The most important distinction is that processes offer a stronger separation enforced by the processor hardware, while compartments offer a pure software guarantee. However, on the upside compartments allow much more efficient cross compartment communication that processes code.
With compartments cross origin websites can still communicate with each other with a small overhead (governed by certain cross origin access policy), while with processes cross-process JavaScript object access is either impossible or extremely expensive.
In a modern browser you will likely see both forms of separation being applied. Two web sites that never have to talk to each other can live in separate processes, while cross origin websites that do want to communicate can use compartments to enhance security and performance."
You can read more about how that works at http://andreasgal.com/2010/10/13/compartments/
I am back to using Chrome however. It's really hard to break the habit even though I made it a conscious effort to use Firefox and have enjoyed it thoroughly.
My only gripe with Firefox would be watching youtube I see a Adobe process that takes up a lot of memory even though I force HTML5, it seems to revert to Adobe.
All in all Firefox is the Chrome browser I once loved, but now that Chrome is working back to what it was doing, I forgot about Firefox.
chrome is removing customization after customization (specially the ones that harm google business model. Referrer preferences, anyone?) while adding stuff for speed and network. So you have a fixed experience browser that is very fast. and not that firefox is not faster in most use cases anyway. Chrome just have better marketing (and arguably a head start on speed a long time ago)
I remember when this was the exact opposite and had to kill Firefox...
If you're primarily interested in speedy javascript, process isolation across tabs (so busy tabs don't lock out the UI), or debugging web apps, I think Chrome is better. Chrome in particular seems to have a much smoother JS execution profile; it may be down to GC, or something else, but Chrome generally has fewer frames dropped for any given demo.
On the other hand, Firefox is way more featureful, and has a better library of extensions. I find it very difficult to configure Chrome to be how I like it - with a bookmarks menu, zero history, and tree style tabs - whereas Firefox is much easier to shape to my purposes. The combination of tree-style tabs and tab panorama means I can - and do - keep in excess of a hundred tabs open without any difficulty in management.
So Firefox is my primary browser, and Chrome is strictly for testing and pseudonymous browsing.
Chrome seems faster for most high performance sites I visit and crashes less often. However, I prefer to have less of my browsing data recorded and so primarily use firefox and duckduckgo.
Once I'd installed the corresponding Firefox add-ons, the UI became too unresponsive too often for me to put up with it.
It sounds to me like one of the plugins probably has a bug.
Recently made the switch to Opera and it has been much better than chrome or firefox. Opera is based on webkit, so it renders just like Chrome, has the same web dev features, and you can use almost all of chromes extensions in Opera. On top of that, I find Opera to take out a lot of the annoyances I've had with Chrome. Also Opera doesn't track you like Chrome probably does, and it's not hindered by Google's politics.
Opera is actually based on Blink, Google's fork of WebKit, so it does inherit Google's politics, and contributes to Google's monopolization of web standards.
* Opera's extension store has Youtube Center, which google disallows in it's store.
* When you highlight text and want to search it, Opera lets you search using your default SE, and then a second option to use something like duckduckgo, amazon, wikipedia, etc..
Make sure to let all the Opera devs working on web standards know this. It'll save them a bunch of hassle to know they're just wasting their time!
You can't advance the open web with FUD.
I don't mean to denigrate their work, nor have I forgotten Opera's role in the fight for web standards, but in the case of Blink, their contributions pale in comparison to Google's. Check the graph at http://browserg.nom.es/#commitsByOrganization, and note that the vertical axis is not linear.
Opera's commit volume to Blink is 7% of Google's. Hell, Samsung is landing nearly twice as many commits.
An implementation monoculture is bad for openness and interoperability. We've been there once with Microsoft, and we legitimately risk going there again with Google. See, for instance, Google unilaterally shipping Shadow DOM, on by default, before standardization. "Chrome will be shipping Shadow DOM publicly. [...] If you want to suggest name changes, as we brainstormed a bit at the f2f, do so RIGHT NOW or forever hold your peace." http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Feb/0103.h... (HN discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7184912)
I don't want a web where any vendor has that much weight to throw around.
With my Mozilla developer hat on, that happens not to be the case. Which you would have known had you either read the entire linked-to thread, or even just read the mail that was linked to, which points that out explicitly in the "notwithstanding your apparently inaccurate statement about Mozilla" bit.
> That was literally the next statement where you cut your quote.
It was also a misrepresentation of what's actually going on. Quite common out of Google these days, unfortunately; we've had to call them on it publicly a number of times. Not that this is stopping them from continuing to claim that others are OK with something they're doing when that happens to not be true.
> but all the talking and consensus building was done
The only thing discussed at the CSS working group f2f was the cat and hat combinators, not the entire shadow DOM spec. And even for those, serious issues were raised later by people who were not present at the f2f.
For shadow DOM as a whole, there is no consensus at all. Mozilla is not really on board with the spec in its current form (and we've said so repeatedly and publicly, though we do at least have a plan for how to get the spec to something that we'll be OK shipping... which won't match what Google is shipping). Apple is very definitely not on board at all with the spec in its current form, and Google is not even trying to get them on board. Microsoft has basically said nothing apart from having concerns.
In addition to that, the spec doesn't match Google's implementation at all, in all sorts of ways that are obvious if you actually stop to read what the spec says.
Basically, Google implemented and shipped whatever they felt like and made a sort of attempt at specifying something or other which totally doesn't match what they shipped. And other UA vendors at best (Mozilla) plan to ship something somewhat different from what Google has shipped and at worst (Apple) think the whole thing needs to go back to the drawing board because it's just broken by design.
If you don't think that's unilaterally shipping before standardization, I'm not sure what you think it is, exactly.
I don't think I've ever run any asm.js other than demos.
PS: I just ran Octane 2.0. The SplayLatency test looks like it's designed to test what I'm talking about; I get 25k in Chrome, but only 9k in FF. http://developers.google.com/octane/benchmark#splaylatency
A bunch of people reckon it doesn't matter - see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8519507 - but I think it does. GC pauses are very noticeable when there are realtime constraints, like animation.
Perceived performance depends on a lot of things, not just JS speed and consistency - also graphics, UI responsiveness, etc. Chrome has had an advantage in some of those areas, but the difference is pretty small at this point, especially if you are on Firefox Nightly.
I think we definitely need some GC throughput/latency benchmarks in the standard suites.
SplayLatency computes the root-mean-squared allocation time, and your final score is the reciprocal of that, scaled by some constant. Let's call the RMS measurement the "badness"; more badness is worse on this benchmark.
Say you're allocating 1000 objects and object allocation itself takes 0 time so all that's being measured is the GC. You plan to GC them all before your JS runs to completion. You consider two alternate strategies.
One strategy is to perform a GC run every 10 allocations, each of which collects 10 objects. For simplicity, say each GC has 1s of overhead and takes 1s per object collected. So each of your GCs will take 11s. So you will have sqrt((100 * 11^2 + 900 * 0)/1000) = sqrt(12.1) as your "badness" score on the benchmark, and will take 1100s to finish.
Now the second strategy: one GC every 100 allocations. Now each GC takes 101s, and it only takes 1010s to finish. But the splay "badness" score is sqrt((10 * 101^2 + 990 * 0)/1000) = sqrt(102.01).
So per the benchmark the better strategy is the "GC more often" one. But for animations the _second_ strategy is better in this case, because the animations can't run while the JS is running to completion anyway. So as long as both strategies are collecting all the garbage before run-to-completion finishes, the one that's better for animations is the one with higher throughput. But that's the one Splay scores worse.
Back to the real problem we're trying to solve: what hurts animations is a GC strategy that aims for higher throughput by letting garbage pile up across multiple runs to completion and then ends up with a long GC pause at some point. Having a benchmark that penalized that sort of GC strategy would in fact be a good idea. But Splay is not that benchmark. In fact, the optimal GC strategy on Splay is to not GC at all until the benchmark finishes and then do one big GC that takes forever but isn't measured as part of the benchmark time.
Basically, SplayLatency sets up perverse incentives where the simplest ways to do better on the benchmark involve making animation pauses _worse_.
It's also possible to improve the score on SplayLatency by actually improving the throughput of your GC, but that's a lot more work than the other approaches, and just as likely to regress this benchmark if you do it by chunking your GC more within a single run to completion.
The end result is that improvements to this benchmark's score have little to do with reduction of user-visible GC pauses.
You can see some more in-depth discussion in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958492 but the above basically summarizes what's going on. The fix in that bug ended up just shuffling work around within a single run to completion to placate this benchmark, and the hard part was doing it in a way that didn't regress things too much for actual real-life animation use cases...
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...
I use it with Tab Mix Plus for extra tabby features, like progress bar on the tab, tracking unread tab state, lots of undo close tab slots, forcing popups to show up as tabs, etc:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-mix-plus/
The tab panorama feature is built in:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tab-groups-organize-tab...
I've honestly tried to switch to both Opera and Chrome but once you are spoiled with real extensions there is always one of them holding you back. ATM the most obvious one is treestyletabs.
This is not to say that there is not a lot of people to whom Chrome is better. Just that you can rest assured that Firefox is better as well, -for some of us, just like Safari is the best browser for some people and others want Opera. (Same goes for Linux, Mac and Windows and I love being able to chose one that I like.)
It means both.
Although I'd rather have neither.
I'm still not going to use Yahoo search as it's really just Google search only not as good. Hopefully one day there will be a challenge to Google.
Note that it works as either a prefix or a suffix - it might be easier to put the insertion point at the end of the text box.
If you're using Safari, you can use my Safari extension to do this with a toolbar button or keyboard shortcut: http://horizon-nigh.org/re-search/
A few of the ones I abuse constantly:
!g - google
!bi - bing image
!yt - youtube
!so - stackoverflow
!w - wikipedia
!py - python docs
The exhaustive list is here: https://duckduckgo.com/bang.html
Also Stackoverflow's search and many other site searches are totally rubbish. Not a bit, but totally rubbish. Here's an example:
"!so c# read file" => this delivers useless results, the top result being "Reading Excel files from C#"
Compare that to "stackoverflow c# read file" on google, which delivers what you actually want, with the question "Reading From a Text File in C#".
What? It redirects your browser to Google, it's you doing the search, not any other entity. They don't proxy or anything.
I couldn't correct it because of HN's stupid 5-comment policy that applies to comments made in all threads combined, and couldn't edit the original comment with a correction as it had been more than an hour. :/
Setting DuckDuckGo as my default and using !s means I can search any of those sites without having to go to them first.
It takes a step out of the process.
On Firefox I have
g - google
ddg - duckduckgo
yt - youtube
w - wikipedia
etc.
easy to type without the bang at the front (Google and Wikipedia are defaults, not sure what the other ones are). I gather on DDG you can use them at the end so you need the ! as a delimiter.
Apparently !g is a thing though? I may have to give that a try so I can have the benefits of DDG, but the results of google.
And I've noticed lately that DuckDuckGo has gotten much better at short queries lately, at the expense of longer queries. Any query over about 4 words goes straight to Google.
Yahoo is a Bing frontend now. Same as DuckDuckGo.
src: http://searchengineland.com/yahoo-boss-moves-from-yahoos-ind...
src2: I worked on the Yahoo Search team at the time of the deal.
So, please also consider support a non-profit organization like Mozilla, when their products are actually not weaker.
Apart from when they switch existing users settings over to Yahoo by default.
With Firefox on my Android I'm also using HTTPS Everywhere and Ghostery. Both are a really good idea on mobile phones - HTTPS Everywhere is useful because you tend to connect to a lot of public networks and Ghostery is very useful because a lot of websites are not optimized for mobile traffic and tend to load all kinds of crap, like social buttons, which I don't miss because Firefox on Android makes sharing easy.
(disclaimer: I do actually work for mozilla)
(hint: open in firefox)
Edit: removed "upgrade" and replaced it with "switch" as to not imply one is an upgrade over the other. Browser choice is very much a personal preference.
There's a raft of other functionality issues which drove me to the decision to migrate 15 years worth of emails out of it.
It doesn't come across to me as being good advertising.
Very few false positives too. Maybe one or two a month.
Happy Firefox user here though. Glad they aren't so reliant on Google funding now, I expect the Yahoo/Baidu/Yandex deal with get them more money than Google alone, without being too reliant on any one party.
Edit: source https://twitter.com/AnthonyPAlicea/status/542670797912166400
Then I tried to respond to an email in Yahoo! Mail, and EVERYTIME I HIT THE LETTER 'i' IT POPS UP A CHAT DIALOG BOX WTF. Sorry, but it's really frustrating.
Doesn't appear at all in the article.
In terms of brand loyalty Google has removed any reason to be "loyal" to their search brand and has been operating on being better then everyone else, however its getting close for most mainstream searches and if I can support a healthy marketplace then I am all for it.
It's true that Yahoo's results are sometimes noticeably worse than Google's. The result I want can often be at the third or fourth position on the page, rather than first (where it most often is on Google). Given that Google is obviously personalizing my results based on my query history (unless the Rust programming language is really the world's most popular interpretation of the term "Rust"...), I'll be curious to see if Yahoo does the same over time.
Plus, search quality is a very subjective matter. I have Bing on my phone for a while (mostly to avoid Google's redirect links), and I hardly notice it any more.
;)
Two weeks in and I'm done with it. Almost every search is useless to me. Even just doing local searches was painful.
Type in pizza + your city and I got a bunch of ads and "Top 10 pizza places in (insert your city here)" and a ton of Yelp reviews. All I wanted was a list of pizza places near me.
I have a dozen other examples, but in a nutshell, it was just really poor at returning results I was expecting.
Have to? Changing the default search engine in Firefox is as simple as clicking on the search-box dropdown and selecting a different search engine. Two clicks.
Don't try to out-Apple Apple, it doesn't win you any favor.
While they aren't packaged by default, some of the tools around FF for .js work just as well as on Chrome, and the only thing hat Chrome has that I can see FF doesn't is process isolation.
I assume here you're referring to Chrome, not Firefox?
I'm not sure if Google used the misleading "upgrade" terminology -- I'm also not sure if most people know the difference between "upgrading" and "switching" anyway, and those who do are obviously the ones who won't be misled anyway.
It still makes them look sleazy to those who do know the difference.
I was pretty pissed about that.
edit: downvote me, but Firefox is still way too CPU intensive on Android
thanks for the confirmation, techcrunch!
Neither Chrome nor Firefox respects my operating system. Both of them take up the whole title-bar with their tabs, rendering useless the window functions that depend on that area. They have non-standard menu systems and very poor keyboard acceleration. Chrome gives you zero control over things like HTML5 video auto-play and I just can't stand to use Firefox because they keep changing the UI and it gets worse every time.
But it's good that Yahoo is doing something to compete with Google, if they don't than who will? I'm personally a big fan of Google, they lead the way of change.
http://i.imgur.com/8cI6hCW.png
Hell, there are more comments in favor of this because Google did the same. Quit playing the false victim card.
Although I grudgingly accept a similar prompt on mobile Workflowy (I use firefox there and are prompted to use Chrome for it) even though it annoys the crap out of me. There is not even a possibility to turn this off.
But for Yahoo I have alternatives for workflowy not (yet).
just go to google.com on any browser other than chrome and you see a huge banner asking to install google chrome and experience a faster web or something.
then came back here and tell me how that is not advertising.