Endaga – Community Cellular Networks | Hacker News Reader

Endaga – Community Cellular Networks

endaga.com

121 pointssteeples31 comments

The OpenBTS Chronicles has some interesting posts on the challenges of building a cellular network in the field http://openbts.blogspot.com.au/search/label/niue

The service provider (Endaga's customer) will most likely also need to pay for spectrum, rural or not. In most cases that is table stakes, but worth mentioning for this audience in case people thought one could simply turn it up in the middle of nowhere.

How modified is this from upstream Freeswitch and OpenBTS and are there plans to get these changes merged with upstream?

Very cool, I couldn't find pricing, does anyone have any idea what a product like this would sell for?

Our current model retails for $6,000. It's an exciting time to be working in this space -- five years ago, setting up a single tower in a rural location could cost upwards of $100,000.

What would be necessary to drive the price per base station down further?

I live in a rural enough community in North America that traditional cellular providers don't see us as a large enough market. A couple of these access points could go a long way towards solving some of our connectivity problems.

@shaddi How would the billing work with subscribers who connect with phones from other carriers?

You would still need to work with the FCC or CRTC to get spectrum to run your cellular network. Once you apply for spectrum, the larger providers in your country will probably bid against you to block it.

Basically this. Spectrum regulations (both de facto and de jure) vary dramatically between jurisdictions. It's definitely a challenge, but not as big of a deal as one might expect, particularly for rural networks.

We don't support roaming yet, so phones from other carriers won't work on our networks. The networks are fully independent, with their own phone numbers and connectivity to the global phone network though.

Definitely get in touch if you'd like to talk more! Many of our customers live in places that sound like where you live.

What bands does your product come in?

Out of curiosity, how does one buy spectrum for a device like this? What are the average costs in some countries?

1. Bribe some politicians

2. Get some telecom / spectrum management laws repealed / rewritten

3. Replace the board of directors of the local equivalent of the FCC

4. Profit!

Seriously, I think it is quite hard, next to impossible to just go shopping for some spectrum in any country with a population density and / or wireless telecom infrastructure above a certain level, unless you are a major corporation or government entity.

I think your post is a slight exaggeration, but you do need a fair chunk of coin. Mining companies in Australia have been buying spectrum licenses for private LTE networks, with those licenses being considerably cheaper than the carrier-grade licenses for 700MHz spectrum (i.e. licenses that are $100m+).

As I touched on in another comment though: getting hold of spectrum is only half the solution. You also need devices that can talk X technology in Y band. This can limit you severely: USB dongles are usually the only option here, and not all devices can accept a USB dongle as an additional radio (i.e. smartphones, tablets).

I'm waiting for a product I can flip on like this to enable P2P 4G/5G mesh networks.

I don't get the second part. "All you have to do is plug in the CCN1 to power and any available Internet connection." --> "and any available Internet connection" <-- Pardon me if it's a newbie question.

Connecting the device to the internet allows it to relay calls to other phones not part of your network. It is likely VoIP back to their systems which in turn interconnect with the rest of the switched telephone network.

I'm just your average joe who enjoys reading HN. I have absolutely no technical background except for having just started out to learn to code.

That being said, and from what I understood from their webpage, their business is to sell a service / equipment for people who would like to in turn, resell that service.

I understand, in a way, needing an internet connection so the machine can work whichever way it was designed. Besides paying a different ISP for an internet connection, is there another way of getting an internet connection? If you need to pay an ISP for an internet connection, and then they find out - wouldn't they simply cut the service? (I'm talking about a scenario outside the U.S.)

hmmm.. alright, I just doubled checked their webpage to see if I missed something. Doesn't seem like it.

Edit: my bad. If it were early I would have said I didn't have my coffee yet. I'm just slow sometimes. I got it now. Thanks for the clarification.

Seems like you're simply going to have to pay for bandwidth so your users can call people outside the local network. Whichever ISP you use is going have to be comfortable with what you're doing or not care and be comfortable with the amount of bandwidth you're using. It's a limitation they don't really harp on, but it makes sense.

Why would they cut the service if you're paying for your data? You're not necessarily reselling internet but calls/SMS.

Target market seems to be the cluey entrepreneur in a village in Papua New Guinea or anywhere else service is non-existent.

I think WiMax is still a better idea: no need to negotiate spectrum with countries (many times corrupt countries). We already have a considerable (and growing) penetration of smart phones capable of voice and text apps.

You do need a spectrum license (or unlicensed spectrum) with WiMax. Further, even if you could operate a WiMax network in an unlicensed band, you will run into issues with: a) not all countries having the same unlicensed bands, and b) the need for consumer hardware (baseband radios) to support WiMax in the band(s) you need.

You could potentially roll out WiMax in a 1500MHz band in some countries but very little hardware does (or will) support that.

This looks awesome. Would it be legal to use something like this in the UK, where radio bandwidth is tightly controlled?

> where radio bandwidth is tightly controlled?

you mean the spectrum perhaps ? unless it also does a wireless backhaul i dont see how it can be plug-n-play...

all RF stuff in the UK is tightly licensed. Theirs very little "free for all" spectrum.

You'd still need to licence spectrum from OFCOM. No idea about that process.

I'm guessing you've had the same thoughts as me, but it looks like Vodafone and EE have had the same thoughts much sooner: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/03/cumbrian_village_get...

Still, it would be interesting to see how these could play out in villages that want to take control of their access to mobile comms.

This is crazy awesome. How would you sell your cell service once setup? And who would you sell it to?

Cofounder here. All service is prepaid, and we have a credit transfer system built-in. The network operator can load up credits onto someone's account directly through our management interface, and that user can resell it to whoever they like. For example, a network operator could sell credits in bulk directly to shop owners, who could then resell to the community at large.

This is only for data, no voice, right? Otherwise how would you negotiate with the other carriers/federal body to generate/register valid phone numbers?

BTW how do you handle roaming? Does the SIM card only work for your particular carrier? Or does it somehow integrate with the existing ones?

The webpage seems very light on technical details unfortunately.

Whoa

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