Hacker News Reader

Comment by tim333 | Hacker News Reader

>The Apache ... for some reason ... hasn't obsoleted the A10

I think the Apache's are not able to take being hit nearly as well as A10s, plus have less fire power and take longer to get places.

There's an article here on the problems http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/...

And a story here where Warthogs saved 60 US soldiers in 2013, where "because people were shooting all over the place, the JTAC didn't feel safe bringing in helicopters in to evacuate the wounded personnel."

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/4667...

View on HN

>I think the Apache's are not able to take being hit nearly as well as A10s,

No, they definitely can't! But they are much better at avoiding taking fire in the first place.

>plus have less fire power and take longer to get places.

This, and the higher maint-man/hour per flight hour.

>"...the JTAC didn't feel safe bringing in helicopters in to evacuate the wounded personnel."

Thanks for that link, hadn't seen it.

>...the convoy's commander approved the pilots to engage "danger-close." The term is meant to clearly communicate to the ground and air forces that the need for support is so grave the ground commander is willing to accept the potential risk to the friendly unit for the life-saving employment from the air.

Scheisse. Gives you chills if you really think about it.

My company gunny (1988) got a bronze star when, as an 19-year old mortarman in 1969, aimed his tube straight up and dropped rounds all over his company's position, saving the day.

I know this because he grabbed me by the scruff of my neck and made me read it, as part of up-close and personal counseling.

I really don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that he fired upon his own people and got a medal because of it?

Exactly that, "his own people" including himself, which is arguably more brave than calling more powerful artillery fire on your own position. See PhasmaFelis comment in this subthread; this is the true last resort after final protective fire.

In that situation they flip a coin, you either get a medal or a court martial.

He was with a rifle company, in mortar squad. The company was over-run during an attack, at night: Marines in fighting holes, bad guys running around in the open, a very chaotic situation.

To eradicate the enemy, and save his company, he pointed the tube of his mortar straight up, dropped a shit-load of rounds down the tube, one at a time. The rounds went up (pretty far, but I no longer recall how high up they go) and came back down all over the place.

Risky, but Marines, generally, were in their holes, the bad guy were not, and so were more exposed to blast and shrapnel.

It should!

Here's a video of something like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPvVacN41lY

>No, they definitely can't! But they are much better at avoiding taking fire in the first place.

From what I've read, that really depends on the terrain. The Apache, from what sources I've seen, was really designed to take on Soviet ground forces in Germany. It's a tank hunter, designed to hide around and behind rolling hills, make quick attack passes on advancing armor columns, and then get the hell out of Dodge before AA can shoot back. Unlike its Soviet counterpart, the Mi-24 "Hind", the Apache isn't very well armored. This makes it not very well suited to the sort of mission where it has to loiter in an area and provide fire support for friendly forces.

A related concept is "final protective fire," which means something like "We are being overrun, please drop artillery shells directly on our position, we're in foxholes and they're not so hopefully it will work out." Scary.

Cost per sortie on the apache. They prefer sending vipers which arent as good but cheaper to operate. A10 isnt even really in the picture.

Another thing is the limited amount of aircraft carriers, their lack of agility. F35s and helis can take off smaller, cheaper,more numerous amphibious vehicule carriers. Thats why theyre even making the f35...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com