Uber vs. Lyft: From The Driver’s Seat | Hacker News Reader

Uber vs. Lyft: From The Driver’s Seat

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116 pointsgregmuender84 comments

I understand why Uber's culture might be less popular with drivers and I certainly wish they seemed less smarmy - to echo another commenter - but this description totally underscores why I prefer Uber to Lyft as a customer.

Nothing against Lyft per se (though getting hit on by drivers twice, including a text after the fact, my last trip to SF didn't help), but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend.

I get there is a difference between liveries and ride sharing in some cities, I do. But I live in New York. I don't want to sit in the front. I don't want to bump your fist. I don't always want to talk (though I've maintained a diary of sorts of many of my favorite Uber driver conversations). I'k primarily using the app because I need a car and couldn't get a taxi. Having a warm and fuzzy relationship is fine, but most of the time I'm trying to do work on my laptop or iPad. As a result, I'm more incline to use the service that treats it as a business than a lark.

But I do appreciate that Lyft drivers feel more appreciated there. That's important. I hope Lyft continues to treat it's drivers well.

Feel free to hop in back and skip the fist bump. Simple way to indicate that you're just looking for transport.

Lyft tells you to do it though:

https://www.lyft.com/

"Hop in the front seat and greet your driver with a friendly fistbump"

It creates an expectation - and it feels like you're not really getting into the spirit of things if you're not playing along.

It's the whole reason I haven't tried Lyft yet too, much like other people in this thread.

Then again it's a paid service not kindergarten.

well, they also say things like this, to be fair: http://view.lyftmail.com/?j=fe5012797d6400747012&m=fe6915707...

Just an FYI, your email and name are available via links off of that url.

Not on their front page. It sounds silly, but I would happily use Lyft if they dropped the pretense of being your friend. I love using Uber because if I want to engage I can, if I don't, I can just chill out. They don't dictate or encourage one way or another.

Same with Lyft. But the friendliness is there if you want it (much more so than Uber in my experience). If Lyft dropped the friendliness and just tried to be Uber it would go out of business.

I've taken Lyft a handful of times, and in my experience, it seems like it's only the new drivers that are awkward about this---after that, they usually do a good job of reading my body language and responding appropriately. I think I'd taken Lyft 5 or 6 already times before the first driver ever awkwardly initiated an actual fist bump.

Holy hell is that off-putting. I had a few coupons for Lyft but I'll pass.

I should mention, though, that you can have the healthy culture of driver respect at a place like Lyft with the professionalism of Uber. Sounds like the sweet spot to me.

A little bit of friendly whimsy has actually proven to be a fantastic business attribute. Think Ikea, Southwest, Target, In n Out. But by all means, go with boring and inhumane.

To be fair, you are basically describing a taxi service or professional driving service, word for word. The friendly, talkative atmosphere is exactly what Lyft is marketing towards. In fact, a comment directly below yours talks about how great the atmosphere is for them and how it feels like a true ride sharing service between friends.

One couldn't even argue the ride sharing between friends when you actively don't want to communicate with your driver....

I have never taken an Uber ride, but maybe the reason why they are seen as #1 is that they are not trying to invent some new kind of relationship with riders. I did hear recently that Lyft was moving away from the fist-bump and mustache.

It may be an introvert thing, but I find this similar to how I vastly prefer the self-checkout machines at the supermarket. I don't really want to expend the finite emotional energy I have on being fake-social with people I don't even know while I'm making a business transaction.

Although apparently Lyft is now available where I live, it's never even had the inclination to try their service (as a passenger) because I find actually meeting new people and having open-ended conversations with them quite exhausting and stressful. At least with UberX I am assured we can just be polite to each other and not say much.

There's a Bible proverb somewhere that says, "He who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Sometimes it can seem like we only have a finite amount of emotional energy, but keep in mind the ways to refresh that store.

I think there's probably a middle ground between the ordering/app experience of one of these services, and the "I just want to sit in the back and ignore you" of a taxi. No taxi I've taken recently has enabled me to smoothly order and pay by app.

I'm not asocial, but sometimes I'd rather just get from A-to-B without fuss.

Oddly, I've found London taxis to be the best at this. They're usually able to keep up on a conversation about a variety of things - we once had a taxi driver explain to us all the nasty parts of the brewing process of Stella Artois - but they're quite happy to let you sit in the back and not talk if you want.

Taxi service on a good day. Lots of taxi drivers are more than happy to fill in any gaps of knowledge you may have on the political issues of the moment :-)

But to your broader point, tastes do differ.

This is one of my least favorite things about American culture. Not just in cabs, but in most service situations.

I've literally stopped going to coffee shops that became too chatty. Sometimes I just want a coffee, not a chat about the weekend and the weather and the local sports team.

I much prefer the French service style: efficient, cordial, but out of your way.

In average French restaurants/coffee shops, since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part. They are out of your way though.

In America if a waiter is too chatty you can politely ask for more quiet time, they are chatty because they want a good tip. Asking a French waiter to be less out of your way isn't as easy

> Asking a French waiter to be less out of your way isn't as easy

I would rephrase that to "Asking a French waiter to be more in your way because the service sucks isn't as easy."

> since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part.

I would say this could be due more to other factors apart from tipping.

I don't find hospitality customer service any ruder in Australia and we're not a tipping country.

It's complicated wrt Australia vs America hospitality customer service - I do tend to find overall that you get better service in the US and way more emphasis on checking whether things are going well and making sure you're having a good experience. That said, I am often surprised how bad service can be in the US given the whole emphasis on tipping - I guess part of it is very few people would actually not tip on bad service (I feel awful tipping less than 15%, regardless of how bad the service was).

In general though, customer service seems to be superior in the US than in Australia from my experience.

Superior is subjective. I find the constant hovering and obsequiousness of American service workers disruptive and annoying. I don't mind getting a waiter's attention if I need it.

Exactly what I love about France -- there (generally) when you need them, ghosts when you don't.

To be fair, that's the goal of perfect service. Every interaction precise, pleasant and necessary to improving your experience of the meal. Being available, but not imposing presence unnecessarily.

Yeah I tried to couch it in terms of being my opinion / experience as much as possible. It is a very subjective thing.

In my experience/opinion, service in Australia tends to be a lot more genuine, whereas in the US you get fake nice just so the waiter gets their tips

Which also means when someone is in a bad mood you really feel it.

I do vastly prefer the model in Australia of anyone being your server, rather than having a specific waiter. If your waiter goes missing in the US, it seems so silly that if you talk to another waiter, they have to go find _your specific one_ for you.

Tipping incentivizes a waiter to over-promise (sure I can take care of both of these sections!) and sometimes results in under-delivering.

They intend, and try to give good service 99% of the time I think. So for me at least, that's why I have trouble not tipping. It's the thought/effort that counts I guess. I almost never have a less-than-great service situation and attribute it to the waiter just being lazy. Can't remember the last time that happened to be honest.

The basis of the French waiter style is cultural, not economic. The idea of "service" is much different in France. The "egalité" of the French society is theoretically classless, meaning there isn't the concept of a "servant" class. So everyone is equal in terms of the customer -- waiter dynamic. Interestingly, in my town of Avignon, I am somewhat well known among the restaurants I frequent and thus it isn't unusual to have chats with the waiters, but it's more like colleagues chatting as opposed to that fake/friendliness you get in a place like Chile's. I mightn't have articulated my idea well due to my time constraints today, but the net point is that there's a cultural difference based on societal "role" as opposed to grubbing for tips. That isn't to demean other cultures (I used to be the chatty American bartender in the US back in the day,) -- it just is what it is.

I'm curious where you live. I live in Southern California and frequent several different independent coffee shops on a weekly basis. I just don't have this problem. "efficient, cordial, but out of your way" describes my experience perfectly.

Really? This is one of your least favorite things about America? Wow.

i don't particularly want to do any of that (i'd far rather sit in the back and not talk), but i put up with it for the pleasure of using a service where the drivers feel treated well. uber seems to have imbibed the toxic "customer is always right" mentality[0] that often gets confused with actual professionalism.

[0] except when it comes to customers versus uber, of course

I agree. I like Lyft but what the author feels is sterile and walled off about Uber appears to me as organization and professionalism. Likewise, what the author applauds about Lyft as being unique and perhaps more engaging appears to me as being a little too lax and carefree. If my life is in your hands via you driving then I'd better see you as a professional who takes their job seriously since I don't know you.

Lyft created that image because they thought they would need some cover story about "friends driving friends" in order to violate taxi licensing laws without repercussions. Uber demonstrated that such a cover story was unnecessary.

Source? Or is this conjecture on your part?

Unless Lyft didn't charge for rides then regardless of how they describe it, fundamentally it is still a pay-per-ride service (i.e. taxi) and still subject to the taxi industry regulations (which I don't necessarily agree with but exist nonetheless).

I 'm curious if companies like these could legally operate by not charging by time or distance but instead operating as a private club wherein someone purchases a membership that grants them free time or mileage (up to a certain limit) or some system based on pricing sort of like how NYC MetroCards are set up).

They didn't "charge" for rides for a long time. They called them "donations" and you were perfectly entitled not to "donate" anything. Of course the driver would give you a bad rating if you "donated" anything less than the suggested "donation."

Lyft even called the fares "donations" until roughly 6 months ago.

... but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend.

I prefer Uber for at least this reason. I don't want to chat or make a friend; I just want to get from point A to B and be left alone.

As I was reading the article, though, I realized that if I were a driver, I'd prefer to drive for Lyft. I'm not a particularly "professional" person, and I appreciate Lyft's "come as you are" driver culture... at least from the perspective as a potential driver. As a rider I'd still prefer the efficient and non-social Uber.

Did you choose to sit in the front or the back of the car? When I get taxis in Beijing, I sit in the front when I'm open to chat, and the back when when I'm not. Most drivers respect this signal.

Does the same not work with Lyft? I've only tried Lyft once (in SF). I chose to sit in the front, and had an enjoyable conversation with the driver.

Yep. I don't have a lot of occasion to take taxis/Uber but I do take a car service to the airport fairly frequently. Most of the time I'm fine with a few minutes of chit chat about what the weather has been like while I've been away or the successes/tribulations of whatever sports team, or what traffic nightmare is going on at the moment--but, at that point, I'm generally good with being driven to my destination without feeling the obligation to make further polite conversation, listen to talk radio, or whatever.

I vastly appreciate Lyft more as a rider. They feel more human. Yes, many drivers drive for both Uber and Lyft. Further, Lyft pays the drivers better.

There's not problem whatsoever sitting in the back seat without a fist bump or chatting. But I think Lyft's friendlier brand promise could ultimately keep it in the game.

As a (full-time) driver for both: I am biased towards lyft - I make more money on their platform weekly, they take less commission, I have a good friend who works for lyft.

There is certainly a difference between the two, but the two corporate cultures are converging. The cutthroat competition, and possibly growth demands put on them by VC has forced lyft to 'play catch up' against uber in many ways.

It shows up in superficial ways: For example, especially hilarious was the week that uber's and lyft's driver-side UI for accepting and completing rides swapped (uber went from tap and confirm to swipe in/swipe out; lyft went the opposite way).

Lyft communication with drivers, while always upbeat, is often very very slow and occasionally they are borderline negligent in dealing with pay issues.

And as is always the case, it's very difficult to measure the supply and demand, and so in my market at least there is a gross oversupply of drivers; as the drivers tail off and stop driving because they aren't making money, lyft finds itself needing to go on a hiring drive before major events (halloween, etc)... And then everyone shows up on the road for the few weeks after that and takehome goes sharply down.

I have doubts lyft will ever get caught in a major dustup like Uber did with its executive-level idiocy, but it's not a perfect company, and there are certainly more points of similarity (in bad ways) between the two companies than this review points out.

Still having said that, I do like contracting with lyft. It's (and to a less extent uber) given me runway for setting up my nonprofit and I'll be launching a for-profit after I move up to the bay area next week.... While we're seeking capital for it, I'll be lyfting around, if you use lyft you might see me.

This post references its original parent in Pando Daily. I'm surprised there is no disclosure in Pando Daily that investors in Pando Daily such as A16Z, Founder's Fund, Peter Thiel are also investors in Lyft. I think it is only fair that every post in Pando Daily should carry that disclosure so that readers are fully aware of the connection. Why isn't this not called out? I just read a post in Medium which is rightfully questioning the motivation of these media posts absent the disclosure. https://medium.com/@PersonofAwesome/buying-news-coverage-and... We need more transparency from the media outlets.

Funny, I thought it was actually a law that they MUST disclose such things. Thanks for the heads up.

Pando typically discloses that it shares investors with Uber and Lyft. This one might have slipped through since it's a guest author.

Wow, thats impressive.

While I agree on the need of disclosure, actually Pando Daily share more investors with Uber than with Lyft. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/11/20/uber-investor...

pmarca has a close relationship with several journalists/editors:

https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/432909760984145920

The truth is that VCs don't invest in the media outlets because they are going to be the next Facebook or Google. No, instead they invest in the media outlets because it helps them promote their investments. There simply is no reason to invest in media outlets for the direct ROI upon exit. They will never be worth enough.

I have used Lyft probably close to 25 times (Is there a place I can see my ride history other than CC statements?) and only used Uber once so I won't try to compare the two but I will say this about Lyft:

Lyft was the first ride-share program to come to my city and I was a little disappointed as I had spent over a year hearing about how awesome Uber was. This feeling quickly disappeared after my first Lyft ride. It was so completely different than any taxi ride I had ever taken that I was taken aback. The whole process was super smooth and it really does feel like getting a ride from a friend. One of the parts I hated most about taxi's was paying at the end because they don't take CC's where I live (or if they do they hide the CC terminals) and so I always had to pay in cash and would often over tip (by rounding up to the nearest bill I had) just to get the ride over with faster. With Lyft I find myself wanting the ride to keep going and I genuinely enjoy talking to every Lyft driver I have ever had. I don't think I have ever had a conversation with a taxi driver that wasn't forced or awkward.

I get that a lot of people don't drive for Lyft as their main job (as do taxi drivers) and so it may be easier for them to be talkative and upbeat but it really does make all the difference. I gush about how much I love Lyft to all my friends and now they all use it and similarly love it. Everytime Lyft comes up in conversation everyone will talk about how great it is and how they love to use it.

Uber is now in my city but as I said I only used it once and I won't even begin to try to compare the experiences because the data set is way too small (hell, 25 rides with Lyft is probably too small as well). But from what I have seen from the outside looking in it's much more "professional" (I don't say that as a good thing) and buttoned up. I love how laid back Lyft drivers are and after reading this blog post it appears that Lyft as a company is this way as well. I wish Lyft the best of luck and will always try to get a Lyft driver before I fall back on Uber.

I find this really interesting. I prefer Uber at-least in LA. I have used both Uber and Lyft pretty consistently in the last year. My problem with lyft has been my extreme experiences that come at the expense of "being a friend". I have had rides from LAX with drivers asking me very private information like my religious beliefs. There was another guy who was talking about his relationships and hinting at his sex life. It was bizarre and funny in the way he said that he does not like to talk but lyft emphasizes on this social experience (and in my head I was like, dude please shut up.. i wont mind) I am sure these incidents can happen with Uber but so far I have never been creeped out even if I thought the drivers were rude or even reckless etc.

With lyft, I tend to sit on the passengers side; which kind of increases my sense of dread when I get weird drivers.

I hear this quite frequently on how awesome it is that Lyft emphasizes this social experience. But in my personal experience it has a (slight?) downside.

That is interesting. I would bet that Uber/Lyft are not homogenous across the US (or other other countries for that matter) but it may also come down to the fact that I am normally very open even with strangers. I feel awkward when there is silence and I won't fill it with awkward talking but I still don't like it. This is one of the big reasons I don't like taxis, I don't know how best to explain it but I guess the best way is I feel like I'm being rude if I just get in the car, tell them where I want to go, then stay silent the whole ride. I may be alone, or in the minority, for this but yeah... I also love to talk so that's why I quite like the Lyft friendly, sit-in-the-front-seat experience.

Thanks for chiming in with your experience! I'd like to hear what other people have to say about this as well.

This seems to objectively match my customer experience as well, though my subjective experience is different.

I wish Uber didn't feel like such a scummy bunch of people, because I'm not a particularly friendly/talkative/social person. I like that when I got into an Uber it seemed expected to not really interact with my driver. It's not that I'm "above them" or anything, though I certainly can see how their chauffeur atmosphere would appeal to those who appreciate that, it's just that they're a stranger, and I find that intimidating.

I'll probably keep using Lyft though, because all else being equal I'd rather be uncomfortable with my ride than uncomfortable with my decisions as a consumer.

seriously, when you get in, politely and friendly-ly tell your driver that you prefer a quiet ride, and thank them when you get out. They'll understand.

They have to pretend that you're car-pooling, rather than just hiring a taxi. I don't like lying to people, so I prefer to tell them that I'm paying them to drive me from A to B.

i was banned from Llyft and never given a reason except that "we take safety seriously". i remember always being an upstanding rider, but may have been a bit light in the tip category. tried to contact the company to see why i was banned but have been stonewalled. hopefully they don't start banning poor people, or some other group just because.

wish they would provided more transparency and have contacted the utilities commission in my state to share my concern.

You're not supposed to tip your driver. Sounds like you made somebody feel uncomfortable.

Lyft offers the option to tip, if I'm not mistaken.

Correct: you are offered the option to tip post-ride.

I would presume, if they were smart, that they would not show how much tip you make per trip, rather per week, so you can't get annoyed at individuals. Doesn't work of course if they only give one ride, but do drivers ever do that?

this is my point. i hope these guys dont gain too much market share or put all other taxis out of business or i wont be able to get around town.

Great copy from Uber: "We use driver ratings to know who are great partners are"

Are you being facetious?

I believe so. The intent of the comment is to highlight their lack of proofreading.

I also enjoyed how they admitted that they mislead drivers and riders by not displaying a rating lower than 4.55 even though the email said the driver's rating was less than 4.55.

I thought I was the only one who caught that. Very sketchy.

This article was OK, but the inclusion of affiliate links in the middle of the body copy made me feel like I was reading an ad in disguise...

Yeah it felt like an ad. I understand he wants to have some call to action in there. But might have overdone it.

I have experienced exactly this in SF. It may just be that I am overly friendly with strangers, but I opt for Lyft every time the prices are close (I'll take 1.5x Lyft over 1.25x UberX every time). The drivers are nicer and just generally more considerate. I've had drivers show me cool music and tell me great stories.

Then again I have friends who hate Lyft for the same reasons. They want to sit quietly in a black car and just get there. To each his/her own.

The thing that seems crazy to me is that drivers are worried that they will lose their jobs to driverless cars. While I am sure this will be possible someday, even if it were 100% technically possible today (and it isn't) it would take a few years for all the driverless cars to be purchased.

I am sure someday it will happen. But if I were driving a car for a living I think I would be more worried about a car accident, illness, a recession..

If you plan to have a career driving cars, to do this for the next thirty years, it's understandable that you would fear driverless cars.

When the CEO of the company you work for tells the world he can't wait to replace you and your fellow workers, it seems reasonable to worry a little bit. At a minimum, it's a bit disconcerting to be equated in value to a (not so distant future) machine.

I'm sure the pay-per-ride services will all buy driverless cars the instant it's technically feasible.

In fact, their whole technology seems aimed at managing such a fleet in the long run.

At least here in NYC, I see the same drivers driving for both UberX and Lyft. The only difference is that they have to attach the pink mustache in the front if they are responding to a Lyft order. In their mind, and mine, once I am in the cab, the company culture does not come afore as much as the human in the car. If he is talkative, he is - Uber or Lyft. If I am talkative, I am - wether Uber or Lyft. I have used both the services and I have had great conversations.

I find Uber and Lyft as great ways of being introduced to new cities. The drivers give me a shade of the city, that I might otherwise miss, just staying in business hotels and talking to the hotel staff, and business partners. I think of them as my "Lonely Planet" for X city.

Reading this thread almost leaves me the impression there's room for a rideshare service that matches riders and drivers based on Myers-Briggs type...

Great article, but the author seems way too desperate to get Uber and Lyft credit

From my seat in back, the difference is tipping. I hate tipping. Increase fares 15% if you want, but not dealing with tipping was one of the nice things about Uber.

I hate dealing with tipping, so I almost always go with uber.

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