Comment by ErrantX | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ErrantX | Hacker News Reader

I agree; what he wants is a stellar idea and how it should work for definite.

The problem is twofold.

Firstly Apple. They achieved unbelievable lockin (even accounting for jailbreaking) with the App Store and are certainly raking in a fortune with it. Im not surprised Palm want a portion of the pie.

Secondly; I bet you the Pre is "sold" at a loss. Because Palm looked at the App Store and thought "hey that is a limitless pot of money, lets do it!". Im sure the Iphone/Ipod Touch is sold for the same sort of "loss" - the profit is from tertiary services (this is a fairly standard model, right).

We already have a dangerous simile for this sort of loss leader system: it's called printed news media. They make money off of advertising revenue and that is falling apart as things evolve.

There will be a revolution in phone software at some point; a time when phone providers finally realise they should open up their phones to other OS's the same way computers are. When that happens these companies are fucked; and I dont think it can be too far away. The number of disgruntled App store devs is growing, Android is increasing in popularity and gaining market traction (though I dont rate any of the production phones yet) and it looks like Palm devs will be joining the pool. That is a dangerous group of people :D

I am not sure I see the "open" trend. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the future is the integrated hardware / software / store. Look at game consoles, iphone, and palm pre. The "open" computer might actually be a blip in computing history. (Please Note: I am not liking or advocating this trend)

I suppose it depends whether a reliable open platform (i.e. Android) gets established and achieves a critical mass of developers behind it.

Could happen :)

My problem with Android is my general problem with Google. It seems like they are incapable of doing the kind of UI polishing required to have a great consumer product. Given how they have treated some of their UI people, I don't see this changing. You need someone with the authority of a Steve Jobs or Jonathan Ive to do real design. You can't just have pretty icons.

110% agree. It's the same gripe I have with Linux too.

I don't like it much either, but it mostly depends on what most customers want, whether there is enough value involved for some players to go for niche (hobbyist &/or programmer) markets, and on how well the closed systems can be made to work together (for example exchanging info between phones and other systems).

Actually, Apple makes a mint on every iPhone and iTouch (see http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2009/06/iphone_3gs_cost...) to the tune of about 50% of the retail price, or 100% of the manufacturing cost, whatever way you want to look at it. This excludes all research, development, and marketing of course.

That's interesting thanks for that. I do have 2 points though.

Firstly that you do really have to include R&D cost - I bet that adds a reasonable amount.

Secondly that your using the retail price of the phone; I don't imagine Apple gets that full amount per sale. Plus dont forget upgrades - my upgrade phone [it's coming tomorrow. woo! :)] is costing £50 ($80 ish).

However; good link. I stand corrected, sorry.

What he wants is basically what Palm is giving him, except for one point..

The device won't install apps directly off the developer's website - it will only install apps either through the actual app catalog, or through a free link that somehow goes through Palm. However they said that they would provide these links for any app, even without any formal review process. Really, this is a good thing.

Why? Because Palm needs to be able to yank an app if it turns out to be malicious. They are doing this to protect their platform, and it's a reasonable security measure.

I don't see any reason why palm couldn't still disable evil apps no matter where they came from.

What if the evil app removes their capability to do so?

If the app was on the device from the web or from a store it could remove their capability, but if the app is not yet on the device palm can easily upload a list of bad apps to not allow to run. Presumably this is what they would have to do with an existing app store app that went bad as a way to kill the one that have already been installed.

What if the list on my phone is out of date?

Then how would having bought it through the store done anything?

That's ridiculous.

Why should I let Palm decide what I can install on my phone? Android, Windows Mobile and PalmOS users have been doing fine with having the option of installing their own software.

You still can install whatever you want on the phone. You just need to jump through a few (very minor) hoops to enable developer mode.

The Palm Pre has a thriving homebrew community of hackers who have done exactly this, and have written over 250 apps that don't go through the standard Palm app store and can be installed just by a normal download link.

See: http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps

Palm devs have even been following the homebrew community closely and invited many of the developers there to offer their apps through the official app store as well as through the homebrew scene.

In this same world where Apple and Palm babysit phone owners does Dell get to dictate what software I install on my netbook and get to ban certain pieces of software because they're not approved by them? I understand the idea of vendor lock in and I don't think it's in Palm's worst interests to try to profit from their App Catalog but trying to justify it based on safety just sounds absurd.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com