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Comment by thisisdallas | Hacker News Reader

So who exactly is this helping? Ok, I know it helps out foreign students, but I am asking strictly from an American perspective. First and foremost, the governments job is to serve the American people. How does this specific action of Obama's immigration proposal help the American people as a whole?

It's a 100% possibility that I have this wrong but I see two groups who this helps. The first group is foreigners who live in the US and the second group is big businesses who can most likely hire lower wage workers.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for improving the STEM sectors in the US but I just feel like it might be a little more useful to invest in our own schools and our own workers instead of invest in foreigners living in the US. Can someone explain what I am missing or what I don't understand?

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While some of the money foreign workers make is sent back home to family in another country, a lot of it is spent right here in the US, boosting our economy. Often, those foreign workers end up moving here permanently, meaning more of their earned money is spent in this country.

A vast majority of these foreign workers become huge net positives for the US economy. The economy doesn't work like you seem to think it does; there aren't some set number of jobs that need to be divided up amongst all the people. These imported workers take a job, yes, but they also a new consumer of goods and services.

This is a really good reply and it's the type of comment I was looking for. Thanks for offering a positive or different view from mine!

> and the second group is big businesses who can most likely hire lower wage workers.

They're called Billionaires Without Borders. And it sickens me to see them feign interest in diversity and globalization, when really they're looking for cheaper Tech labor, because heaven forbid capitalism from ever working in the american employees favor.

This seems to be downvoted because it goes against some ideal of a meritocratic job market or other illusions.

Even if you think that allowing more foreign workers is a good thing in principle, you have to consider that the implementation as it stands is quite a bit messier than that. Plenty of these workers are hired by consulting companies that base their business on hiring foreign experts and exploiting them, paying them less than market rate and restricting their mobility and freedom.

Obviously, this isn't a net positive for society or the job market.

Without foreign born workers, half of Silicon Valley wouldn't have existed. Is that a good enough reason?

That's not a reason for starting a new program. If anything, the thriving success of Silicon Valley should be a strong signal for our government to leave it alone. There's no evidence this program will do anything but displace American workers.

Well, I feel it is not.

The reasons and successes of the past does not necessarily guarantee success by following the same pattern today. Saying something was good before doesn't provide a free pass from questions on the validity of repeating policies of the past.

Not that I'm stating an opinion on the matter one way or another, but I would say the question is valid and your answer comes across as dismissive.

No. The important question is not how many jobs there are, but how many - and at what price - and how does that price translate into a standard of living in the country where you live.

To protect US citizens there are laws in place. That however can be chipped away piece by piece. If tech companies had their way that would end.

There is a real concern about the (at least perceived) decline in the US standard of living for low/middle income folks, that is not necessarily anti-immigrant. You can't deny, immigrants built the country. However, America is going to have to deal with this problem of preserving the very ability of its citizens to be upwardly mobile. I'm not sure how much of the fear is real, but its out there.

Another group that this helps are colleges and universities. Universities love foreign students because they pay full price and have to be able to afford tuition before they can even come over to the US. Higher education has become a major export in the US economy, so it also benefits the trade deficit to some degree.

>So who exactly is this helping?

it improves gene/social/economical makeup of American society first and foremost. Best and brightest young people is the best thing one can import.

Take just one very simple aspect - society needs infrastructure and resources committed for 20 years for 5 kids to get one successful college graduation bound educated young person. Out of the rest 4 some will during next 60 years of their life become a net negative like go to prison, unemployment, spawn next generation of low-productive members of society (cue in opening of "Idiocracy" :), etc... Or you can just "magically" import exactly that 1 bright and healthy 20 year old leaving the other 4 and the related 5 x 20 years expenditures to another country :)

"...the governments job is to serve the American people..."

Excuse me, sir, what is the hell that you are doing in all other countries then? If you want to be world's police, then better take care of all world's citizens.

Don't believe the rhetoric. American troops are in other countries to protect American interests, not to protect the rest of the world.

> but I see two groups who this helps.

It helps the universities too.

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