Hacker News Reader

That's a noble argument, but I think it's wrong. Someone has got to make the trains run on time. What I mean is, there will always be people in this world whose function it is to flip hamburgers, drive forklifts, raise livestock or work in HR. Without them the whole edifice comes crashing down. Rather than demeaning those callings, you should acknowledge that it's because of the hard work of untold millions that a few of us have the freedom to devote ourselves to higher causes. A lot less research would get done if we all had to grow our own food.

Also, I have always found the get-rich-so-I-can-do-good mantra to just something people tell themselves to rationalize their blind pursuit of wealth. The chance of this happening is hilariously remote. Anyone who is playing the odds would be far better off taking a job as a social worker, teacher or relief worker.

Not to mention the fact that you don't exactly need millions to make a difference. I have a friend (http://www.qfund.org/) who took $50,000 and built a school for 500 children in Africa. She has made more of a difference in people's lives than the next 500 nerds in they Valley who are trying to strike it rich so they can build a spaceship, combined.

I guess my post was toned incorrectly if it came off as demeaning. My point was that if you have the freedom to work on anything, and its your choice, it's not really worth working on anything that isn't either a means to an end for a higher goal or on that goal itself.

I'm not saying you can't have fun doing other things, or that its not necessary for people to do things like keeping the trains on time. Just saying if you have freedom, you should use it wisely.

What alleviates more suffering: when I do volunteer work in Africa or when I work as <whatever> here and donate a substantial amount of my income to the Red Cross? Me comforting some children dying of AIDS or me supplying the means for a hundred blankets in a refugee camp?

Just saying if you have freedom, you should use it wisely.

Who's going to be the judge of that? It would suck pretty bad if Elon Musk had decided to spend his life in Africa as a volunteer, now wouldn't it?

Who's going to be the judge of that? It would suck pretty bad if Elon Musk had decided to spend his life in Africa as a volunteer, now wouldn't it?

Who's to say? Everything the guy touches turns to gold. If more smart, vibrant people like him went to Africa instead of chasing pipe dreams around Silicon Valley and Wall Street, Africa might be a very different place today.

BTW he did spend part of his life in Africa, he was born there :)

I happen to work on development of the software, whose aim is to alleviate human suffering (it is used in hospitals.) But we also use bug tracking system, as well as company collaboration software during our development. So those actually fall in your point 3).

Yes, exactly. Efficiencies like bug tracking systems are like derivatives, in the calculus sense. Point 3 in the list is the first derivative of the first two points, while bug tracking is the second derivative for specific cases.

Isn't it the other way around ? A derivative needs something to be derived from. So a toolset allows people to build neat stuff, making the neat stuff the first derivative of the tools it is built on.

An analogy of the mathematical analogy I had in mind is acceleration, velocity and displacement: making a difference (displacement) in the world requires velocity, and tools can increase your velocity.

Excellent points. That's why Elon Musk scores very high with me and 'dandies' (that will go unnamed here, but I'm sure you can picture the kind of person I have in mind) are a net loss.

Given the chance to really change the world you should grasp it with both hands and run with it.

Too many people still treat money as a goal in stead of as a tool, there really is no point in being the richest guy in the graveyard, if you do not apply it to something useful you might as well never have had it in the first place.

Reducing carbon output using electric vehicles is thousands of times less financially efficient than providing people with better loft insulation.

I think what Elon Musk is doing is great but he's trying to build an electric supercar - it's not the most philanthropic of pursuits.

tesla is one of the smallest things he's doing, have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

specifically spacex.

FWIW, I voted it up because I think you made the best comment on this post so far.

I tend to think in similar terms to you regarding that list and thinking in that way got me out of a slump. I thought being a techie or an entrepreneur was a waste of time because of all the disadvantages, but I realized that if you're creating technologies or anything that helps others push the species forward, you're part of the good side of life.

Isn't that pretty much setting you up to be a non-profit? One would typically have to use a similar "stretched analogy" to turn those few areas you mention into a for-profit company in most cases. I guess in my greedy little capitalist mind, its also worth working on if it solves any problem important enough for people to pay for it.

Read "I, Pencil" by Leonard Reed sometime. Its available online for free.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html

Then give some thought to how the invisible hand is really doing your point 3 on such a massive scale across all of society that it enables not only points 1 and 2, but also just about everything else anyone might think is worth working on.

Its not a stretch really. Its a natural by-product of people having freedom to choose and pay for the things that are most important to them. If that's what's most important to you then that's great. But that doesn't mean nothing else is worth working on.

I agree with you that #1 and #2 are the most important areas of human endeavor and achievement (although I'd also add Art to #2). But I think #3 includes a lot more than you might at first think it does. The guy behind the counter at the local fast food joint is, in a very real way, part of #3. After all even scientists, doctors, etc. sometimes need a quick lunch right?

As for working toward building some capital in order to do grand things... I'd love to see someone work up some stats on how many of the people who get rich from flipping a start really go on to spend a significant part of their time/wealth on #1 or #2? Or is that just some bullshit line that people tell themselves to justify all the time they're spending pursuing the almighty dollar (or euro, yen, etc). Once they're rich, do they try to make the world a better place? Or do they just buy a big "crib" with a pool?

I don't believe that statement is true. It's a noble statement but it misses the point in life.

The point in life is not to avoid suffering and discover but to live and procreate. If you're not sure whether this is true do a split test on two families and measure which sets of characteristics do best in 100 generations.

Science and medicine may be what separate us from the animals but for most people they are enablers for the rest of life, not the point in life itself.

Working in entertainment and anything that furthers our ability to enjoy and "live" life is just as valid as your first two. It may not sound as good in a manifesto but making people happy is an extremely worthy pursuit.

And no, I don't want to hear about a stretched analogy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Read it and never again use that kind of sentence, unless you actually want to make constructive discussion harder.

Point taken, bad choice of words.

This comment makes me smile. Recent comments across HN have been rather immature.