Show HN: Mindscapes – Stochastic background music generator | Hacker News Reader

Show HN: Mindscapes – Stochastic background music generator

mindscapes.co

49 pointslurzo34 comments

"Stochastic" made me hopeful - thinking hey Xenakis, sonic exploration of data, etc - and "background music" made me skeptical - thinking here comes another garbage piece of general midi mapping that passes for generative music.

It's hard for me to be so negative, but this is a bit like posting your new bootstrap site on a design forum. Not that HN is all computer musicians and generative composers, but some of us are. This might be your first step into generative music, or music in general, and please keep sharing! Some of the best advice I ever got when starting to write music was: you're going to write junk for quite a while, don't let it discourage you.

I'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you're working with algorithmically.

After listening to more of the "deep ocean" mp3, it sounds like you have a set of 10 or 15 short gestures, and the algorithm is determining the order they'll play and how they'll be stacked. Good place to start! If you aren't interested in applying systems to the material itself, a next step might be to just play with amplitude over time. You can prolly increase the overall density of samples if you apply stochastic envelopes to each, without affecting the still mood -- it might help reduce a feeling of monotony, too.

Hi erik! i'm the music/audio guy of the site. First thank you for the precious feedback and encouragement :). Your description at the end of the reply is accurate. There are 10 to 15 instances of synths/sample based stuff, which take midi imputs based on the following criteria:

A list of frequencies. A list of note durations. A list of amplitudes.

All this process is triggered by a set time (in seconds) which, going in tandem with a selected chance rate of generating the note, makes a music event.

Having this running on a server would be hard for us, so the decision to make a long export of these "sessions".

I agree on the fact that Stochastic music has a certain academic connotation and standards for a composer, standards that are far from being achieved from the tracks on the site. I will try my best to make new soundscapes even more dynamic in the future :).

Hey thanks for being so understanding! I just want to say that I feel badly for being this negative, it's out of character for me, but this is a realm that's close to my heart and I'm just critical because I care about it and want to see projects like these exceed my wildest expectations.

You should also take my comments with a grain of salt because my hopes for things like this are for lack of a better way of putting it musically bound. I can't help but listen to this as art, and so I'm responding to it that way. I'm taking these pieces as things for close listening.

I think making long renders for static streaming is a fine approach by the way - have you thought about automating a re-render more often for each piece?

A more expensive alternative would be to run a dedicated render server to generate music in realtime, and then multiplex the stream on demand with something like wowza. Makes me miss the days of r4nd.org: http://rhizome.org/discuss/15607/#29894

Good luck with the project & thanks again for sharing!

Constructive criticism is always appreciated! A nice happy solution that we want to implement in the coming days is to have even longer exports start at a random file time (having it looping off course). Also i didn't know about r4nd.org! Is there a link where to listen some snippets of it?

First take: I see links to 4 mp3s, I guess I was expecting something more unique. Are these generated often?

Take 2: I see now the email signup and the info icon telling me that you offer: "You will get just an email or two per month with news about new soundscapes and new features. One-click unsubscribe." maybe highlight this as it wasn't immediately obvious this was more than a one time curiosity.

minor comment: "Mindscapes lets you relax or focus while exploring dynamic soundscapes" -- maybe avoid using both mind and soundscapes? (stick with one to reinforce the name, i had to go back to the tab as I type this reply)

Im sure you could go technical on the algorithm as well. Helps to show the complexity behind this for further appreciation.

overall very cool design, love the audio & the design as well as graphics. If you're looking to gain email subscribers, make that clearer. After I listen for a bit, what would you like me to do?

Great stuff! What're you planing to do next?

Hi bengali3, thanks for the tips and the appreciation :)!

For the time being we count on generating 1 or 2 soundscapes per month (1-2 per month is becoming a mantra lol.) We would like to do next soundscapes based on actual feedbacks. Also what we think a user should do is to simply select a place where they would like to be and enjoy this no voice, no musical refrains soundscapes as a background to their activities, whether it be working or trying to get some sleep.

This is awesome! I've been really frustrated with music lately and have been wanting something like this. Thanks for making and sharing.

You might also like http://myNoise.net - it's less musical and more geared towards generating ambiences.

Disclaimer: I am writing their iOS app.

That said, these are some really nice soundscapes!

Thank you keslert. This is our first attempt building a website in this field. Glad to hear positive comments.

I disliked any generative music or soundscape or anything I ever heard so far; but this made me smile. I would be interested to hear versions without the musical instruments, just the background noises -- maybe expose parameters so visitors could play with them?

Oh, and the website looks like I could just eat it. I love how it's light and playful without being flat and boring. But I think the responsiveness could be improved a bit: when I resize the window, there are some of sizes where stuff gets cut off, and only change position after resizing further. On small viewports, maybe the "Tune your mind." could get a slightly smaller font size, and be made to sit above the audio player (which maybe could loose its margin)? Anyways, just some random thoughts :)

The feedback input and submit button have different bottom padding; it's really making my eye twitch.

Tried to fix after your feed. We like pixel-perfect layouts ;). Is it ok now?

Ah yes, tension is resolved.

Deleted comment

It also happened with me. It seems that it only happens on the Space Gravitation soundscape.

Hi ohaal, i'm the one who built this site. Thanks for appreciation! How long did it take to stop playing? We tried in different browsers for some time and after starting, music never stopped playing.

Great UI and great idea. If your goal is attention focus, then can you experiment with some softening?

For example, how about longer attack/decay envelopes? Changing sawtooth waves to sine waves? Lessening the ranges of frequencies and amplitudes?

This can create soundscapes that sound less like striking a high bell, and more like soft jazz woodwinds.

Thanks for the love jph! All the things you said can be surely done! I will experiment more in the coming soundscapes.

these things sound nice. apparently putting words like "stochastic" sound the alarms of "real" computer musicians, which is dumb. how fragile are your egos?! if you don't like this, or think its too noob, why even bother to tear it down?

This is a technical forum. We actually care about precision when describing pieces of technology. When people say things that seem potentially inaccurate, yes, expect alarms. It's not ego, it's professionalism exercised outside of the office.

I understand that Stochastic music has a certain academic connotation and standards for a composer. For them the title is surely misleading. Still, even if noobish, i can assure these soundscapes take advantage of stochastic note generators.

This is wonderful. Could you please elaborate on what kind of stochastic processes were used?

Thanks alans!:) You can find an answer to that in my response to the nice Erik up in the comments.

Great! This goes right next to http://musicforprogramming.net in my list of things to listen to while trying to get some coding done .. nice work!

Thanks fit2rule! We are glad you like it! Stand by for some more soundscapes :)

I like the sounds but it seems to act like a virus. I have to kill my browser to stop it.

I wish I didn't have to worry about being "negative" in posting honestly about this site. It really is something awful, and reflects something disappointing about modern startup culture.

First, the synthesis of floaty background nonsense constitutes a contribution to a problem, not a solution we've been looking for. This is akin to making an automatic reality show generator. Nothing could be less aspirational. Second, what's upsetting here is how technically uninteresting this particular bot is, and yet we have a comment thread vaguely waving hands and intimating that something marvelous and deeply technical is going on here. The third problem is the pretension. The word "stochastic" here simply means some coins were flipped. It's hard to imagine how you would be posting about a "deterministic" music generator.

I think I need to wash my ears.

I only listened for about 5 minutes, but it was actually pretty pleasant. Rather unlike your comment.

Unfortunately, I'm 18 points away from being able to downvote, so I'm posting this instead.

My recommendation: chill out and take a 30 second break before re-reading and then posting your comment. Also remember that a human being just like you spend a non-trivial amount of effort working on whatever it is you are looking at it. Then you might feel less inclined to naively shit all over it. One alternative approach, if you have nothing constructive to say: peacefully close the tab and move on with your day.

Humans spend far less trivial amounts of time creating works of literature. A novel may consume three years of an author's life. And yet for years society has been enriched by a lively and often sharply critical literary discourse. By comparison, this is a trivial project, and yet the culture is so much more defensive.

You even threaten to downvote me! (oh my). How can you simultaneously want to change the world and clamor for censorship?

Censorship? Hardly. A downvote is just the easiest way for them to signal their displeasure.

The cultural attitude you see prevalent here defending creators is due to the community's wont to make this a safe place for sharing, especially given the recent efforts at making "Show HN" a first-class citizen.

Constructive criticism is a good thing, but I don't think that's missing from HN. What dwaltrip (and Hytosys below) are suggesting is that your criticism is not in the least bit constructive, and takes a tone that would otherwise negate any constructive bits. I concur.

If you're curious to see how a comment might actually be constructive in the course of being critical, I'd seriously consider erikschoster's comment.

My main point is that you can critically comment without being a dick. I could have been more clear about that.

Also, I wasn't threatening to downvote, I was explaining why I was creating a somewhat low content post.

"Nothing could be less aspirational" and "I think I need to wash my ears" aren't just negative, they are inconsiderate and unhelpful insults.

I think there is a problem with how shamelessly uncritical we can be, especially when imposing ourselves upon other walks of life, especially art. Startup culture should aspire to be more than a Tony Robbins convention.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should be free to critique, and I think that erikschoster (see his top-level comment in this submission) did a good job being negative yet helpful. I believe startup culture is mind-numbingly optimistic, too. With that said, there's a necessary balance between being critical and being empathetic.

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