How Drinking Bottled Water Became a Thing | Hacker News Reader

How Drinking Bottled Water Became a Thing

blog.socialrank.com

46 pointsjoeteplow60 comments

I know expecting rigorous science from an entertainment program is always asking a bit much, but the Penn & Teller gourmet-water prank always struck me as flawed given the social dynamics at play. Most people in that situation are going to feel some social pressure to acknowledge some sort of qualities in what they are being served, whether from fear of appearing unsophisticated or simply out of a desire to be polite, even if what they're drinking does consciously taste like tap water to them.

Personally, while I don't buy any branded, single-serve waters, I do actually buy gallon jugs of house-brand "drinking water" from my local grocery store for the taste. Whatever minerals they add "for taste," I prefer it to tap or even spring water.

True, but that's really no different than the dynamics around bottled water -- if everyone around you is drinking bottled water, and they all insist it tastes better than tap water, it creates social pressure for you to drink it and say that too, even if you don't believe it. The easiest thing for people to do is always to go along with the crowd.

Except you can taste silica, which is available in much higher quantities in bottled artesian water than regular tap water.

Ask someone to help you double-blind taste-test FIJI water and your tap water. There is a big difference.

It's been pretty well documented that presentation affects the perception of taste. Adding some fancy adjectives (and possibly a fancy price) to the menu can make people perceive the food as tasting better. I believe it's been shown to work with wine too. So it's not surprising that the same thing can happen with water.

Also, wine is barely better than water in terms of taste perception. Even wine "experts" can't differentiate wine in a blind test - they've been known to confuse red and white wine, give wildly inconsistent ratings to a single wine over multiple tests, and correlate high ratings with high price - even if the "expensive" wine is really a cheap on with a fake fancy label and price tag.

I've actually assimilated this effect and consciously appreciate how certain craft beer labels affect my perception of the taste. There's a local brew I explicitly enjoy more from a 12oz bottle than on tap because of its package design.

In my experience, much of the pleasurable taste of gallon-jug-water comes from the fact that it's refrigerated, rather than from any intrinsic properties of the water's chemical composition. A glass of tap water left in the fridge for a while will also come out tasting 'fresher'.

I used to drink bottled water exclusively, mainly because I thought the taste was unambiguously better. However, three things got me to switch to using filtered tap water.

#1) having to carry multiple gallons from the store to the car to the house was getting to be a chore. given the amount of water of i drank, it was a headache. now that i've switched to filtered tap water, it's so much easier.

#2) i received a brochure from the local water municipality that documented all the steps that the water went through to be purified. It was way more involved than I thought. Plus, the purchased filter literature claims to remove impurities to several significant digits - post coming from the tap.

#3) it's cheaper overall. sure there's a fixed cost to buying a filter system, but once it's up and running, it pays for itself.

Same here. Also, when at a restaurant squeeze a lemon (or lime) wedge into your water to help handle odd tastes.

I would avoid dropping the wedge into the water since you have no idea if the rind is clean.

> I would avoid dropping the wedge into the water since you have no idea if the rind is clean.

Why are you eating there if you can't trust them to provide clean food?

Former barkeeper here: usually the limes and lemons are bought as-is-available, which usually means mass-produced stuff laced with pesticides. Organic fruits are, due to their higher price, normally only available in hipster places.

The rind is not considered edible in any way, and the pesticides don't migrate through the rind. Which is, btw, a good reason to rinse any fruit or vegetable (prior to USE, not directly after you get home from shopping!!!) and also wash your hands afterwards so you don't ingest the toxins via your skin.

Never mind pesticides; rinds are great places for bacteria to grow. Peel all fruits and vegetables.

If places sold an empty bottle for 5c or whatever that you had to fill up by yourself at a tap, then that's what I would buy.

Sometimes you're out and you want something to drink but you don't have a container, bottled water is kind of an obvious choice. All the purity shit is just capitalist competition in action. And I still don't understand what is worse about it than bottled Coke or whatever.

That seems like a pretty good business idea. Even for 25c I'd buy it. Especially at like airports.

If they were flexible enough to be collapsed then shipping and storage would be significantly cheaper than bottled water too.

It's been done (not $0.25, though): http://grrrltraveler.com/top-packing-tips/vapur-water-bottle...

Good point. I've had a couple Platepuses for a while, but I hate to clean them. Would be nice to have a cheap recyclable solution for on the go when you forget your normal bottle.

But who would buy it?

Contra the article, I would argue that there's three reasons bottled water became popular:

1) Convenience: no need to tote an empty container around with you, or find one when you're thirsty

2) Status signaling: a.k.a. "tap water is what the proles drink"

3) Collapse of faith in the efficacy of collective action: the rise of Perrier was driven by sales in the US & UK, and occurred during the late '70s and early '80s, the same time as the rise of Reagan and Thatcher and the beginning of the era we live in now. Guarantees of the purity of tap water rested on the authority of government, which people had stopped believing in. The purity of bottled water rested on the authority of the Free Market™, which was more in fashion.

Empty bottle plus tap would be much better for the environment, and probably cost people less over time than bottled water does, but it fails in comparison on all three of those points. And since history shows these are the points people care about, the prospects of the concept don't seem bright; at least not without another major shift in society.

Point 3 is confusing to me. In the U.S., government regulation of water quality got a lot stronger in the 1970s:

http://www2.epa.gov/laws-regulations/history-clean-water-act

http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/index.cfm

Between that, advances in technology and the wider deployment of municipal water supplies, U.S. tap water is probably as clean and safe as it has ever been, at least since the beginning of the industrial era.

I'm referring to public perception, not facts.

The environmental wave that was symbolized by the first Earth Day resulted in lots of environmental policy improvements in the US by the end of the '70s. But by the time those policy improvements happened, public sentiment had turned away from collective action towards private, market-based action.

Remember, laws lag public opinion, they don't lead it. So the laws that pass today are responses to public opinion as it stood at some point in the past.

No commentary about entertainment venues removing/hiding the water fountains and making carry ins (like my refillable bottle) illegal for security theater reasons?

I'm not saying that explains 35 gallons a year unless you go out a heck of a lot more than I do, but it is something of a gateway drug, that once you get used to going to the state fair and spending $7 for a brat and ... $2 for the bottled water to go with it, you're on a slippery slope to buying more bottled water later. Look how cheap the bottles are at the store, why I paid $2 for one bottle at the fair, and I can get a dozen bottles at the food store for $3 what an awesome great deal bottled water is I'm gonna buy some for next time I go out...

It's getting better. SFO, for one, has long-neck water dispensers for filling your own bottle. I've found other airports often have something similar. Of course, you need to think ahead to actually BRING your empty bottle (or dump the water before security), because my first thought when packing is "oh, I can't take my Nalgene because they won't let the water through security". It takes an extra step to say "oh, wait, I can take it through EMPTY".

Of course, it also seems silly to pack a large empty container.

I'm more likely to use a disposable bottle if I'm going to an event, or I'm walking around a city all day as a tourist, and want to be able to ditch the bottle rather than carrying it around empty.

That said, I virtually never buy water, I dislike it on principle and only do so in special circumstances.

Every reason mentioned except the main one - that you can't charge $4 for a cup w/tap water in it? Also when fast food/day-to-day restaurants give you a cup for water, it's tiny and uncovered.

I would prefer tap water in all cases. It is never a convenient choice.

edit: If you wanted to legislate effectively (rather than in a Bloombergian manner), just require that tap water be a first class citizen at restaurants (same cups, same sizes), and that the purchase of soda/bottled water cannot be involved in a package discount, unless tap water would give you the same discount.

Since last year, I have tried my best to avoid any drink that comes in a plastic bottle and as well as saving me a decent amount of money, I feel much better about not adding to the obscene amount of waste and the fact that when i do have a drink out, I am helping independents too rather than fueling the corporate monster..!

Bottled water is so expensive. Really adds up quickly. Never order it at restaurants. Tap water please.

I buy 36 bottles of water from Kroger at around $3.50 (plus 7% taxes). Taking one with me on my bike every weekday means they last around two months, at less than $2 per mo.

(Yes, I know it's better for the environment to save plastic. Kroger bottles are not as bad as others, as they feel as thin as a plastic bag, but still I plan to eventually phase them out, but not because of the $)

Have you considered taking a sports water bottle or nalgene or some reusable bottle?

Yes, but they feel way too heavy/big, and then I have to wash them regularly which is kinda hard to do with a bottle. I know that would be the best long term thing to do though..

There's a big difference between bottled sparkling water, filtered water, and plain old tap water.

Also, there's differing qualities of tap water as well, because it does depend on your tap and sink itself.

If you have a good tap, and you are serving the water without carbonation, sure, there's going to be little noticeable difference in general. But try running water directly from an average to low quality tap directly into a soda stream (without any time to even allow chlorine dissipate) and you'll find that's nowhere near as pleasant as a bottle of perrier.

The downside of bottled water is BPA from the plastic container that is released when exposed to sunlight/heat but the downside of tap water is that you can't control the level of nitrites, PH levels, chlorine and debris from building pipes.

But you can get a lot of that out of your tap water with a filter, which in my opinion makes tap water the healthier choice.

Evian is the only non flavored water that I have tasted that actually has a different taste to it.

Either way I dont drink bottled water because I dislike tap water. Most of the times I dont have a container or a tap to fill up with water. So I am stuck getting a Dasani or Evian from a gas station or vending machine at work.

Fiji is unique, because it's softened more so than others. In my opinion, it's delicious. While I normally don't buy battled water, if I must, it's Fiji, if available.

Well, perhaps some sunlight will change your habits:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/fiji-spin-bottle

A container? Like a coffee cup? Were do you work, that doesn't have running water? (And no toilets, I presume?)

A water bottle container with a closed lid that is refillable and washable. I would rather not drink out of a coffee cup with stale coffee flavor leftover in the bottom.

Yes we have water but I dont like getting up every 10-15 mins to grab a single sip of water from a water fountain. So I go to the vending machine and grab a Dasani bottle I refill for about a week.

I certainly hope you have washable coffee cups too...

Actually no we dont have the machine or materials to wash a coffee cup in my floor's kitchen.

The reason why I finally switched to only drinking bottled spring water is because of things like hexavalent chromium, which appears to be very prevalent in the Bay Area for some reason. The Bay Area has an amount which is hundreds of times higher than the maximum recommended amount.

http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2010/12/30/chromium-6-found-in-...

I might explore a home filtration system at some point, though, if it is cost effective and reliable.

This is why I drink bottled water.

"The documents reveal that the wastewater, which is sometimes hauled to sewage plants not designed to treat it and then discharged into rivers that supply drinking water, contains radioactivity at levels higher than previously known, and far higher than the level that federal regulators say is safe for these treatment plants to handle."

"...some sewage treatment plants were incapable of removing certain drilling waste contaminants and were probably violating the law."

"radioactivity in drilling waste cannot be fully diluted in rivers and other waterways."

And the EPA has not intervened.

from http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/us/27gas.html

Also:

"Environmental officials in Pennsylvania have failed to adequately regulate the state’s booming natural gas industry, a state report said, reflecting what critics say is weak oversight of the oil and gas industry at a time when drilling is spreading across the United States."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/us/pennsylvanias-auditor-g...

It's a well-known fact that New York City tap water is delicious, even compared to other municipal water supplies.

While I feel that should have been mentioned, it still makes you wonder why people in NYC drink so much bottled water.

i live in LA, but when i'm in new york city, i drink tap water when indoors (it's always nice and cold and delicious even when it's hot out, i don't know if this varies building to building) but when i'm out, i always buy cheap bottled water (poland spring or crystal geyser) because i don't want to carry a non-disposable water bottle with me when i'm out and about. new yorkers are out most of the time so that would explain it.

LA tapwater is nowhere near as good, in fact it's downright disgusting in some parts of town, but i drink it anyway when i'm at home because buying large amounts of bottled water is a pain in the ass (heavy, bulky) and expensive. sometimes i'll buy some perrier or pellegrino if i want a treat. i've found that if i fill several large mason jars full of water and put them in the fridge, it's a good compromise. a lot of the shittiness just evaporates out. i'll grab one and put it by my bedstand before i go to sleep, for example.

at the office we have the standard 5-gallon jug water delivery service which is the best. i might start getting the service at home, honestly.

It's why New York Pizza is so good, it's the minerals in the water.

I'd never heard of that and it's remotely plausible but apparently debunked:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/01/does-nyc-water...

This is generally understood to be debunked, but I believe the oven wall particulate theory is still possible.

The crazy thing about Fiji water is that it is actually bottled in Fiji and shipped around the world. So now even plain potable water can have a significant carbon footprint.

All the more reason to buy locally-sourced bottled water. I have Eldorado Natural Spring Water (http://www.eldoradosprings.com/) delivered, which actually comes from a local natural artesian spring.

This has been the convincing argument for me when it comes to bottled water. I hesitate to argue this though because I know the scientific numbers, methods for water quality measurement, and general advice from people like the penn and teller episode completely disprove this argument, but here it is anyways:

I dislike the idea of drinking water that has been circulating through pipes and filters in the city for decades, including through our toilets and showers and huge amounts of chemical waste. Of course, the methods have completely purified the water, but claims that tap water still isn't good are attributed to the sort of last mile dirty pipe system, which is solved by more filtering.

I like the idea of nature filtering the water that I drink. That's why I like the idea of water springs. I would be less interested in spring water that still just comes from municipal water supplies that similarly recycles the water, and would prefer it coming directly from a spring.

In the northeast in PA/NJ, tap water has had a distinct taste, presumably from the high calcium content. My experience with tap water in Orlando, Florida also had a very distinct odor to it. Thus bottled water it is.

For filtering, I just got one of the iSpring reverse osmosis units to filter water for me. It tastes equivalent to the other bottled water brands while being appreciably cheaper than bottled water.

The tap water in my apartment is disgusting. I tried filtering it, but it still tastes terrible. It doesn't even do a good job of cleaning my dishes in my dishwasher. I buy Poland Spring by the case, keep it in the refrigerator, and drink that instead. I have nothing against drinking tap water in principle, but my actual tap water leaves a lot to be desired.

Interesting, what filter did you use? For simple taste filtering I've used a Brita pitcher with its built in filter, at home I installed a reverse osmosis system that feeds into a silica (sand) filter and an activated charcoal filter. The house one is a bit larger so that it can filter tap water and water that goes to the ice maker in the freezer (the refrigerator has its own filter which on top of the house filter gets replaced every 3 - 4 years).

The reason I've gone to some 'extremes' is that in earthquake country the house filter can do double duty for making drinkable water out of pretty much anything that might get into it after an earthquake.

My experience though has been that pretty much a basic charcoal filter like the Brita gets rid of taste issues pretty effectively.

I tried an on-tap Brita filter. Maybe the pitcher would have worked better, I did not try it.

I drink bottled water when I'm out and about, the main reason is that it's frequently the most/only healthy option available. Fruit juices can be good for you too, but they're high in sugar and not great for your teeth if you drink them frequently.

It all depends on what tap water you compare it with. In many places in the US I’ve been, the tap water was heavily chlorinated, and that’s not exactly a subtle taste note in the water.

Simply fill a jug of that heavily chlorinated water and put it in the fridge, all the chlorine will evaporate after few hours. You will get free, cold and good tasting water always available. No need for filter.

I don't know how it is in the US in particular, but in addition to Chlorine, tap water usually contains Al, Cu traces, lacks Ca and Mg and is low on bicarbonates.

So not only tap water already lacks compared to mineral, just letting it gas out, although can help with taste, is not enough to ensure quality, a filter is recommended. I don't know why you claim a filter is not necessary, I've never seen that.

As a side note, "Agua de Culo," one of the brands offered during the Penn & Teller experiment, translates as "Ass Water."

Love that last paragraph.

Part of the bottled water craze is due to the fact that youngsters are mistakenly made to believe that you will get dehydrated if you take a walk around the block, do your math homework or just sit around. If you don't drink x glasses of water (insert random number for x) your health will be at risk.

So, for those situations where you find yourself with your (BPA-free) water bottle empty of course you're going to spring for a bottle of tap water. And since you're afraid of catching Ebola you're not going to use anyone's tap, it has to be a one-way safe and sanitized bottle.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com