All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go
medium.com
medium.com
Some of the errors include:
1) Separating oxygen from nitrogen is quite commonly done, and there are at least three distinct methods for doing it. The reference is to an amateurish analysis done by others who had not done any research. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_swing_adsorption
2) It is quite well known that NASA distributes its contracts around the country, so as to increase political buy-in from governors, congressmen, and senators. In fact, the space shuttle was green-lit because Nixon had cancelled the national aerospace plane, and his administration had a meeting about how that would affect votes in key swing-states, and they decided that the shuttle would benefit his re-election effort. Sources are numerous including https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo8v7juSgRw .
3) Vitamin D would be a problem from lack of sunlight, not vitamin A, and even then supplements and artificial lamps both provide viable long-term alternatives to sun-exposure.
4) Building a vehicle to carry sufficient fuel and supplies for the trip to Mars is not especially technically challenging, when compared to the design of an earth-entry vehicle. Earth orbit rendezvous allows for the assembly of massive (though expensive) space vehicles such as the ISS.
To your point (4), that there may exist an even more difficult problem does not mean that building a Mars vehicle is "not especially technically challenging." The author explicitly cites the three recent malfunctions with rocket launches, and the older Apollo, Soyuz, and Shuttle programs all had their difficulties too. Building a Mars vehicle is surely challenging.
Of course, they do have to land on mars, don't they? Isn't this roughly similar (and thus similarly as challenging) as earth re-entry?
I think it was someone working on Curiosity that said mars has just enough of an atmosphere that you have to worry about it, but not quite enough to be useful.
And bearing in mind that when your spacecraft hits the martian atmosphere, it was traveling at interplanetary transit speeds, much greater than orbital speed.
I could be wrong about him saying that in Roving Mars (I can't exactly grep my paperback copy, and Google isn't helping), but I'm pretty sure it wasn't on the subject of Curiosity... I heard it in 2006 or 2007, while Curiosity was still called the Mars Science Laboratory.
It certainly is useful and you can still shed 90-95% of the inbound orbital velocity or even that from an interplanetary trajectory with a reasonable heat shield. It would be far more difficult if Mars were completely airless. You still need retrorockets for landing big payloads but at a discount.
Though the other atmosphered bodies in our solar system: Earth, Venus (cloud deck), Titan can be achieveable with just parachutes.
I don't think this nasty idea even deserves this much work to write about it. I'm sorry for Josh, but I hope they do not succeed. I do not want to see the horror that this could turn into. Let's not mar space and Mars with this bullshit.
Worse, it risks completely ruining the idea of human space exploration and planetary colonisation.
Second: although it is definitely not something I would seriously consider, I can appreciate that there are some people out there who are in fine mental health and would eagerly go on a one-way trip to Mars.
But third, when I read this:
Before he’d applied for Mars One, Josh had met a girl at the Redhead Days festival in the Netherlands. Eli did not have red hair, but was brunette; Josh was drawn to her easygoing demeanor, her effortless good moods, and they fell very much in love. But a shot at Mars would be a serious, life-changing turn of events, and Josh knew that he would have to fully commit if he was ever going to make it to the final selection. He didn’t even wait for the application deadline to break it off.
...I concluded that Josh was an idiot. Not for wanting to go on a one-way trip to Mars, not because of any career or lifestyle decisions he had made, but simply because he sabotaged his potential happiness based upon a promise of something exciting happening, made by people a world away that he had never met and who seemed to have a dubious command of the critical technical details of such an undertaking.
Ten years from now, when Josh is still on Earth, Mars One is considered to be another Biosphere 2 and Bas Landsorp and his pals have long since moved on to other commercial ventures, I suspect Josh will wonder about that brunette.
This article nails it: these people would be living an 18th-century lifestyle. But it would be one utterly dependent on 21st-century technology for something as basic as breathable air. If their 18th-century lifestyle can't keep their 21st-century technology working, and the organizing company can't drum up enough money to send regular resupply flights for decades to come, they die. Simple as that.
If we expect to make fuel for the return journey there, that needs to be happening before the people leave Earth orbit.
Ditto for digging the hole and putting in an underground habitat.
Building a greenhouse from glass made on Mars.
Growing actual food on the surface.
Each of these steps are critical and need testing before we send people. Otherwise it's a pointless test to find out which failure gets them first.
I am all for Mars, 100%. The sooner the better. But it's not like Earth doesn't have its own inhospitable climates that are vastly easier to conquer than Mars, and we haven't even managed that (but then, perhaps there's just not enough motivation?).
The point being, Earth has hard to live in places, but not a lot of motivation for living in those places. Mars as a sort of sex appeal to it "Mars!" but its a valid question what happens once people figure out that its just a place that is really really far away from Walmart.
And, that no one has demonstrated how that can be turned into a positive, long-term revenue stream, even in principle.
The argument that presumably robotic missions would pre-supply a landing site with materials that could not be locally sourced, tools for processing locally sourced materials into useful form (including but not limited to air/water). Puts what is left being there for the hell of it.
Failed earth experiments like the Biosphere ones depended primarily on self containment (good for when you are surrounded by vacuum), successful experiments like the Russian 'mobile home from hell' [1], and some things in the middle like 'earth ships'[2] actually point to feasibility.
What is lacking is the certainty that you will die if this doesn't work. And that, is pretty hard to simulate on Earth because there is always an "option" of some sort for rescue.
[1] http://www.space.com/13500-mock-mars-mission-mars-500-ends.h...
Mars is very, very different. You can't go out at any moment and take a breath if your CO2 scrubbers break down.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashline_Mars_Arctic_Research_...
[2] http://deadline.com/2014/03/thinkfactory-media-shopping-mars...
[3] http://www.marssociety.org/home/press/announcements/ma365-ca...
I recall a pretty good article shared here a while ago about how Mars makes no sense as a target compared to Mercury. You can put people on the dark/light edge of Mercury and find a pretty good temperature. A tiny solar panel can generate gobs of power. There are minerals worth mining on Mercury.
Because Mars has no magnetosphere all habitable structures will have to be well underground to protect against radiation. It's really not more habitable compared to other solid bodies as you might expect.
That doesn't really sound like pleasent temperature fluctuations or something that is easy to work with?
The folks in this article do not plan a return journey.
Don't they mean vitamin D?
What would the impact on the public's psyche be if this mission failed by means of a torturously slow death of the crew? I think it'd be a huge setback for any sort of space exploration to witness fellow humans triumphantly land on Mars and then watch it all fall apart and the crew perishes tragically (being optimistic enough to say they actually land safely).
I bet the Apollo program would have ended much sooner if Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin never made it off of the Moon.
I have always thought as Cmd. Hadfield stated, that we have to go to the Moon and get it right there first. Go to the Moon, get this space colonization thing figured out and then the conversation on heading to Mars can begin.
As much as I would like to but I think it will probably never happen in the near future. Not because of technical reasons as some people state in the article. In my opinion the technical difficulties are not the most difficult things to solve in order to travel to Mars. Humanity went basically from 0 to space and on the Moon but this was only possible because of the political pressure where everything was dedicated to reach this goal. This included a lot of money and ten thousands of people. But most important it was the society who supported this goal no matter what. Today nobody really cares if people go to space and this makes it impossible for a hand full of people who do.
And the $6B pricetag is ludicrous. To put this in context, the state of California estimates the cost of high-speed rail from SF to LA at ~$50B.
Further the $50B price tag has a lot to do with paying a LOT of union folks, legalized "corruption" in many forms and the like. Finding huge cost savings in the construction industry is possible if you're motivated but nobody is because big infrastructure projects like that get handed out more based on politics than merit.
As far as unions go, I will grant that wages are higher as a result of their existence. That's a feature, not a bug. I'm curious: just how much of that $50B pricetag do you imagine is due to unions and "corruption"? A ballpark figure from the website of your choice will be fine.
I don't care if it's public or private money that made SpaceX possible, and it doesn't much matter to me if the tech to go to Mars is all designed from scratch or bought from people who already know how to do it. It's that it is possible to do big things for a lot less than $50B.
If you have to design everything from scratch because it's $10k/lb and every pound counts, well, then yes it's going to cost a huge pile of money.
But what if it's $1k/lb to get to space? Suddenly COTS stuff doesn't look as stupid.
In the context of the present thread, since many of the problems associated with a manned Mars mission are unsolved, forgive me if I'm skeptical that Adam Smith's invisible hand will somehow bring the cost down to manageable levels. With or without COTS.
I'm not arguing the price of the first rockets that NASA built at all. I'm arguing that SpaceX didn't have an extra hundred billion of secret NSA black money that they used in addition to the publicly known about billion that we can be sure was spent.
You can't argue that because NASA spent $20B or whatever in 1960's dollars to get us to the moon that somehow SpaceX's $1B rocket is ACTUALLY a $21B rocket. You could argue that if SpaceX had to develop everything from scratch it would cost a lot more than $1B, but they didn't.
Similarly not everything that it would take to go to Mars is going to have to be engineered from scratch. Especially as launch prices keep coming down. If you could get to orbit for $100/lb it's only 10x as expensive as overnight air freight and at that point weight wouldn't even be a real issue anymore.
Is it kind-of crazy to talk about $100/lb launches right now? Yeah sure. But Musk has said that it's $200k worth of fuel to launch a Falcon 9, which has a 30klb payload to LEO. That's $6/lb in marginal cost plus whatever overhead on the rocket. Suddenly $100/lb doesn't look quite so batshit insane.
Perhaps you should go work in a foundry, machine shop, or a mine for a while and then see how you feel about unions.
Ultimately this addresses my point best:
“The highway department didn’t use to see the drivers as customers,” said Frank DePaola, administrator of the highway division for the department. “For a while there, the highway department was so focused on construction and road projects, it’s almost as if the contractors became their customers.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/rapid-construction-tech...
It is possible to get this kind of thing done with or without unions, but when unions have a strong presence it's harder because the union bosses know that this could mean fewer jobs, and for them, less power. People generally don't take a pay cut (or reduction in status) willingly.
Well, $67 billion, up from the $33 billion figure they were promoting when they asked voters to approve it.
Mars One is pretty silly, but a significant portion of that $50B cost is because they need long, straight lines and as such will have to seize and reimburse a lot of very expensive real estate, isn't it?
Here are dozens of projects that make me chuckle about the naivete of the $6B figure:
I think this fact is often overlooked. The problem of gravity (and radiation) are probably harder to overcome than food and oxygen.
This piece was not well researched, please do not invest too much credence in it.
I would add that the bone and muscle problems are very well known to just about everyone who has done as much as read a science fiction book. Heinlein went into the subject in detail in his 1966 novel "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", and more recent writers such as Kim Stanley Robinson have written about it too.
In 1966 the space endurance record was just under 14 days (Gemini 7) and very little was known about the long-term effects of low gravity environments at that time.
This article deserved better. The author deserves recognition.