Comment by throwavaccine | Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwavaccine | Hacker News Reader

I am struggling with the anti-vaccine movement right now.

My daughter - 18 months - has had her basic vaccinations, but is late for her MMR due to my wife's concerns.

I find it incredibly difficult; for every rational argument, there's an irrational "What about X" counterargument.

The fact that every rational explanation is greeted with another absurdity reveals the sad truth: she -and the other anti-vaccine people I've met - aren't interested in the truth, only following their faith that all vaccines are bad. We're based in Poland, and there's a huge amount of plausible-looking anti-vaccine information out there.

Most unhelpfully, a child in our social circle recently had to be hospitalised after a one-in-a-million allergic reaction to their MMR.

I'm close to breaking point; my marriage and life is otherwise healthy, but I can't idly stand by and leave my daughter and wider society vulnerable. God knows what'll happen when I she gets vaccinated behind her mother's back; I don't hold out much hope.

Wow, this turned out longer than I expected. Has anyone ever successfully convinced a anti-vaccine spouse? I'm at my wit's end.

I was in the same boat. My daughter is now 20. My decision, which might not work as well now, was to hold fast for the ones I thought were vital (and I apologize for not remembering which these were), to trust herd immmunization for some of the others, make sure she was strong and healthy (lots of fresh vegetables, jiu-jitsu, you know, eat well, exercise, plenty of sleep), and to have a private talk with her on her 18th birthday or soon thereafter.

She is now pretty much caught up on her vaccinations.

I don't know if I would make the same decision now, given apparently lower herd immunization rates, I might argue more vociferously.

It was easy to pick vaccines to reject, e.g., Gardasil (protects against only 2 of 4 major strains, covering ~%40 of cases, was not being given to boys, so seemed like corporate welfare for sure and could give a false sense of security), or the flu, which is useful for those at risk, less so for the strong and healthy, and by conceding on one or two I was able to get some of the more important ones.

Nowadays, now that I know the term catastrophic thinking, I might start the conversation in a general and helpful way, talking not about vaccines at all, but about how my wife reacts very strongly to bad news - or potential bad news. Over time, talk about this as a couple. With luck, her reactions will mitigate. If and when they do, discuss vaccination.

Good luck, my friend, it is a tough issue, an emotional one, and appeals to facts are not your friends (because of the emotionality of the issue - the underlying emotions must be acknowledged first).

My wife didn't want to have her daughter vaccinated with Gardisil for this reason either until she got cervical cancer. Since then she has changed her mind. ~40% is still pretty significant.

Here's the issue. The article says "In the US, the CDC reports that one in 3,000 children will have febrile seizures after an MMR shot." At least 3 million babies are born every year in the US [1], this equates to at least 1k kids having a visible reaction (seizures) to the shot every year. With numbers like this, there will be some push back as someone will most likely know someone who had an issue with the shot.

[1] http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm

That link doesn't directly get you to your quote, but a little bit of searching roughly confirmed it. However I also found this link (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/combo-vaccines/mmrv/vaco...):

Understanding Febrile Seizures “Febrile” means “relating to a fever.” In some children, having a fever—even fever that comes with typical childhood illnesses like ear infections or the common cold—can bring on a seizure. Measles was a common cause of febrile seizures in the United States before the disease became rare due to the success of the vaccination program. During a febrile seizure, a child often has spasms or jerking movements and may lose consciousness. Febrile seizures usually last only a minute or two. They are most common with fevers that get up to 102°F (38.9°C) or higher, but can also occur at lower temperatures or when a high fever is going down. Febrile seizures often result in a visit to an emergency room for the child and can be very frightening for parents and caregivers. However, most children who have febrile seizures recover quickly and have no lasting effects.

Which implies to me that the problem is MMR can cause a fever, and fevers can result in febrile seizures.

You should think really hard before trading off this risk for the increased risk of measles and mumps. Rubella I'm not so sure about (I think the #1 reason for that is to protect pregnant women).

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