Hacker News Reader

Comment by penprog | Hacker News Reader

Twitter doesn't have a design flaw, it sets out to do what it wants and it does so spectacularly. Twitter is a platform for announcements not for conversations (although many try to use it for that very thing).

People who think twitter is a conversation platform are #doingitwrong. Period. People who try to use twitter for conversations and get angry when it doesn't work well or some random stranger barges in and starts hurting their feelings obviously need to realize that there are a ton of other platforms that solve their problem. Namely message boards, any form of chat (irc, IM, etc), blogs, etc.

View on HN

> People who think twitter is a conversation platform are #doingitwrong. Period.

If millions of people insist on using your product as a conversation platform, it is a conversation platform, no matter what you intended it to be.

A thing is what it is.

People use twitter for announcements and then for comments on those announcements. Very few people have actual conversations. When a conversation does happen, it's usually the root poster agreeing (or disagreeing) with the person that tweeted at them. I don't see anyone going to twitter with the initial intent of conversing with someone. Nobody goes onto their computer and says "Hey I'm gonna go message this person on twitter so we can have a conversation"

Twitter isn't a conversation platform

Tell that to my mobile phone provider, who no longer accepts email as a viable support request path, but insists on me starting up a conversation with them on twitter or facebook (I don't have facebook, so that leaves twitter), requiring private information (so I have to 'follow' them first, and they have to 'follow' me in return), is one D away from exposing private info and in general totally unsuitable for the purpose.

So because your mobile phone provider is incompetent twitter is a bad platform?

Who is your provider btw? That sort of bad acting should be named and shamed (on a platform like twitter perhaps?)

It was merely meant as an illustration of why some people hold 'conversations' on twitter. The provider is Vodafone.

One simple solution: send them an old school registered letter. They'll have to read it, or at least sign for it. In that letter you can let them know how displeased you are, and announce that you will a) continue to send registered letters and b) will change telco as soon as you can.

Not so much a solution or even a workaround, more of a way to take a stand.

Conversation (yes, often about announcements) is the main thing I use twitter for. To me twitter, at its best, is basically a giant irc channel with some filtering features.

Now you've seen one. I think you're confusing emergent with wrong, tbh.

totally agree. at least you can have someone moderate channels on irc though.

You're just flat out wrong. That's why there's a tab dedicated to replies. Twitter conversations can be incredibly interesting and benefit all participants by being public. Twitter's setup hugely encourages @ing people in your tweets.

Except conversations are badly broken. So many people don't hit the actual reply, so conversations get cut off, often restarted, and thus become fragmented, which makes them hard to follow and participate in. Sometimes it works. Often it doesn't. I think this is what the OP was talking about.

I guess it depends on which Twitter client one uses, I've never had a cut-off conversation with Echofon.

Vast, vast majority use twitter.com or the Twitter mobile apps.

But this is not a problem of the platform, but of how users are using the platform. I rarely have conversations on twitter (i.e. most are just a couple of replies long at most) but I occasionally have a 20+ post. If you hit proper reply, it works. If you don't, it doesn't (or does really badly), but this is a user fault, not a platform fault.

If users have difficulty properly using the platform, the platform is at fault. An arbitrarily naive user should never have to fight the platform to do what he wants.

I don't think I agree. If we view twitter as a tool, an arbitrarily naive user can chop his hand with an axe.

Very accurate analogy.

Also consider when there's say four people tagged in a conversation, and then someone needs the extra characters to make their point and they remove one of the names, then that person loses the context too.

Also, conversations look different when you're looking at them from one of your lists, or if the people you are following are different than the people I follow.

So many clunky issues that you need to be on top of for it to make sense, and this is what's lost on the general person.

This is one of the many examples of Twitter not knowing what Twitter is. Twitter is a product that was a success in spite of the efforts of its founders.

> I don't see anyone going to twitter with the initial intent of conversing with someone.

They're you're either blind or not looking very hard.

Twitter is a conversation platform. A shitty one perhaps, but one nontheless.

Then why does it need to go away? It's obviously ok at conversations if millions of people use it that way.

Agency effect. People would use something else if met their needs better and had as many users. (e.g. Facebook vs. Myspace)

That explains why a new user would choose Twitter today. It doesn't explain why people started using it for conversations in the first place, years ago when the network was new and small.

That's kind of non sequitur, isn't it? Thats like saying Myspace is doing a good job of giving users what they want now, because at some point in the past it did.

No, it's not "obviously ok" for conversations if "millions of people use it that way". What kind of strange thought process leads to that conclusion?

It's only "obviously ok" if (a AND b), where:

(a) "millions of people use it that way"

(b) it's productive and beneficial when used that way.

The (a) is only enough to show that Twitter serves a need people have for certain coversational structure (short messages). Doesn't prove that it's the best tool imaginable tool for the purpose or thats it's the pinnacle where evolution in such networks stops.

Actually, this very thread started with a FA saying that it's not (b).

People don't generally voluntarily use a service unless it is beneficial to them in some way. It's not like millions of people are being forced to use Twitter for conversations.

Edit to add: also, I didn't try to "prove that it's the best tool imaginable tool for the purpose or thats it's the pinnacle where evolution in such networks stops." I just said it's ok.

>People don't generally voluntarily use a service unless it is beneficial to them in some way.

People are not always the best to judge what benefits them. Case in point: everything from Bush, to heroin addicts, to fast food, to Justin Bieber.

Back to Bush again. Thankfully we have Gauleiter coldtea to bark out orders...

Did I ever ordered you to do anything?

  A thing is what it is.

That depends on what the definition of “is” is.

Ah, but that depends on what the definition of ""is" is" is

The unescaped inner quotes made me cringe...

Ah, but that depends on what your definition of ““is” is” is.

Ah, but that depends on what your definition "\"is\" is" is.

I hope this makes you feel better!

And that depends on what your definition of "\"" is.

And that depends on what your definition of "\\" is.

>it sets out to do what it wants and it does so spectacularly.

That sounds post hoc. It, of course, is what it is and does what it does, but do you have any evidence that this result was well-calculated or planned?

Have you intentionally left out Facebook in your list of alternatives? Because I think that is where many discussions have moved to, and it's pretty good for that. Articles posted by news pages have kinda-threaded comments, and Facebook's trademark "Like" button fits in well, too. I think that's a good example of how sites can evolve (so Twitter could, too).

This. The way Alex uses Twitter now (tweeting links to his blog posts) is exactly how someone of his stature should use Twitter.

Twitter is something that missed its potential. They created something that is/was incredibly powerful, but actively undermined it in wacky ways.

IMO they could have been the killer app. That potential fell a little short and it's just another marketing funnel for TV people.

Sorry to be pedantic but perfectly executing a flawed design doesn't mean the design isn't flawed.

I agree twitter is not suitable for conversations, and also don't understand why it must go away. Like you said, it does one thing and it does it well.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com