On Applying to Y Combinator
blog.directededge.com
blog.directededge.com
1. I recognized wheels's username as someone who made thoughtful comments on HN.
2. Their description of what they were doing was much more specific.
3. We added the video in s2009, and we could tell from their video that they were good.
If you don't do that then all that will happen is that YC will receive a bunch of cookie-cutter videos, and that's exactly what you do not want.
You want your video to present you in a way that matches you, not to present you in a way that matched someone else.
But 'high karma' as such shouldn't be a factor, it can mean many things. Average karma per comment would be a much better way of judging peoples contributions.
I'd be interested to ask you how much the addition of video closed the gap between your initial perceptions of a team based on the application versus when you met them in person.
To be honest I almost fell into that pitfall. But from my perspective it's also hard to not focus on the application so much. Because I'm a college student, I haven't had a job, I don't have much money, and I'll be forced to balance school with the project if I don't get into something like Y Combinator.
So putting effort into the application now can mean more time to focus on the product later if I'm accepted. So while Y Combinator can be an accelerator, I think it can also be a great initiator too in that it can give someone like me the first opportunity in my life to work full time on a passionate project without any other priorities.
Also the startup is much more interesting. School is just an unnecessary impedance to the startup and if I am serious about it I wouldn't even care about school (which I don't). The problem is my parent's aren't going to pay for me to relocate to silicon valley or fund a risky project. They'd rather fund college.
So my options are to find a way to fund myself so I have a legitimate reason to focus full time on the startup, or balance school and startup. The problem is I have a hard time enforcing a balance and the startup gets more of the attention.
So ideally I want to be in a position where I need no balance and focus solely on the startup.
I agree that when you balance your startup and your work/school, one or the other will suffer. I know I have not given my heart to any of the contracting projects I was working on. I mean, I worked on what I was paid to work on when I was getting paid to work on it, but they just weren't getting the same value they would have if I was thinking about their problems in the shower instead of mine, you know? I didn't feel good about that.
So yeah, I feel a lot better about myself now that I'm full-time on my company. But even then, you have sloppy compromises. I don't have investors, so I always have the option of the 'honorable death' rather than doing something slimy, but the market forces you to make sloppy compromises.
Me, I have always had a deep hatred of marketing in nearly all its forms. And guess what, now I'm the marketing guy. Granted, I am a fairly truthful and transparent marketing guy; I generally try to avoid (or at least tell you ahead of time) if I have any 'perverse incentives.' but still, I now spend probably 20% of my time bragging about myself, an activity I maybe enjoy, but certainly don't admire. I mean, really, my biggest flaw is my massive ego. In my heart of hearts, I believe I can do anything. You have to carefully control that sort of thing.
edit: removed baseless speculation about running a company with investors.
Looking back, I'd have needed something north of $200K to get where I am now, to learn what I learned. Hardware mistakes get expensive fast, and I was at this for 3 years before it took off.
Who is going to keep feeding me cash after my second failure? my third? Me, that's who. Who is going to support two people to write a book that is likely never going to repay the expense of keeping us alive for the period of time it took to write it, much less to cover the opportunity costs? I did.
The thing is, if I went with investors, I would have needed to take the 'pretend you are doing something new' path, and to charge what look to me like ridiculous prices. Now, maybe they'd also bring on marketing people that would make those ridiculous prices tenable, but going with investors, I'd have probably been either dead or bought out by now.
True, but remember you're riding on the "if I'm accepted" part. It's highly unlikely that you will be, especially if your application lacks the knowledge you're likely to gain during the process of developing your product. I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense for you to apply. Just keep in mind that every second you spend doing A is time that you could have spent doing B.
While I won't say I hated college, I was eager to get out and start my own company from day one. I seriously considered it a few times, but I'm glad I didn't go through with it. College has a lot of resources that are harder to come by on the outside. (I just graduated a few months ago, so it could be that I'm wrong and the resources are just as easy to tap into, but I haven't figured it out yet.)
Take advantage of the fact that other people are taking care of your finances, and spend your time improving yourself. Take advantage of the fact that you're surrounded by students who are quite possibly as ambitious as you, and make some connections with promising people. It could pay off in the future. I really recommend working on small projects during college, instead of trying to create an actual startup.
Sure you probably won't make money from doing this, but there are other benefits. Small projects don't have to be time-intensive, so you can still pass your classes and enjoy college life. They also provide a really good excuse for you to sit down and work alongside one of those promising classmates I mentioned earlier. Plus, taking a project from the initial phases through completion is bound to be a great learning experience. The phrase "learning experience" is a bit cliche and overused, but trust me, this is truly a field where learning pays off.
Also, consider the fact that all these talented people starting companies are really just out to make money. This limits their choices, consequently creating a large space out there for apps that aren't designed to make money. If you do a good enough job on the right project, you stand to gain a lot of attention, respect, experience, and opportunities.
I have taken a project from initial phases through completion... when I was in high school. I even got a law firm to do the legal stuff pro Bono.
I'm not riding on being accepted to work on this. I'm just saying it would be a really good if I do get accepted. It would make it a lot easier for me. I still plan on working on it if I'm not accepted, just as I have done for countless previous projects from before I knew what a startup was.
I'm not getting much in return for the almost 20000 per year I spend on college (and I'm just not built to be told what to learn) and to be able to not only stop paying 20000 per year in pursuit of a degree to get a job I won't want (I will be self employed; no way I will be able to work for someone for more than a summer), but to be paid almost 20000 to do that, that sir is as ideal as it can get.
That is why it's a no-brainer for me to apply.
and you seem to have completely missed the point of this article, it is not 20k to work on a project so you dont have to deal with professors / employers.
>it is not 20k to work on a project so you dont have to deal with professors / employers.
But from my perspective that's what it potentially means.
I had two ideas i was looking to develop and i went with the one i thought had the most potential and the one i was most interested in, even disscussed it with the people who had to goverment tender to manage the program.
They where looking for great things such as exportable and high potential amongst other things. My idea really did tick all the boxes but as i filled out the application form, it was a far way from what they where looking for and for that i didnt make the interview stages.
But now im at the stage where i can demo one of the ideas at a local barcamp next week and im quite happy to move on a prove some people wrong who didn t believe my idea ticked certain boxes.
And yes i will be applying for ycombinator with my other idea which i have deemed more YC-esque
Exactly. We're impressed by teams that get things done, and unimpressed by teams haven't even started to build something. I've often found myself thinking, "If you think this is so great an idea, why haven't you spent some weekends building a version 0 prototype?"
Basically, I feel like I have to contribute something worthy on this site now in order to be considered for YC. While I feel that being an active community member is important, I don't think it should be given the weight that it seems to carry for YC applications.
There are now > 20 teams selected. Without being active on HN, you still have the same chance as before, but those that are posting intelligently to HN are getting a boost.
Absolutely do not waste time in order to support your YC application. Work on your startup instead.
Geez, I can't imagine a worse way for an aspiring achiever start any sentence. Get one thing straight: you don't have to do anything. The prizes (whatever they are) go to those with positive mental attitude and fierce determination. I imagine that for yc, like most other things worth doing, that's half the battle.
FWIW, this may be the best community on the internet for passionate hackers. If you feel like you have to contribute, please don't. If, OTOH, you want to be a part of something that can help you (and others) in ways you can't even imagine right now, welcome aboard.
The best thing you can do is what Scott said to do in the application: get to work. Then you'll sound in your application like you know what you're talking about, because you will.
Yes, writing about your activities is marketing yourself. Until you become much bigger than I am, a 'personal relationship' with your customers is a huge part of marketing.
Hah. I was going to link to some old twitter threads, but it seems 'older tweets are not available'... I search for my company name on twitter quite a lot, and help people who are complaining. I'm remembering a particularly amusing moment when one of my Chinese customers was complaining (in Chinese) of a down VPS. I used the google translate tool to figure out what they were complaining about, then I helped them with the problem. The customer was rather shocked that I was able to puzzle out the problem from the Chinese description.
One of the keys to marketing, though, is to not spend too much time on any one prospect until you know they are interested. It sounds like you feel the need to put a lot of effort into marketing yourself to PG before he has shown much interest. In the example above, because the conversation was on twitter, I was not only helping one customer, I was telling the world that I'm the sort of guy who is willing and able to help out my customers.
If your customers are on news.ycombinator.com (or if you are primarily marketing your startup to investors rather than to customers, which I personally think is bad) then yeah, put effort into building your image here. Otherwise, it probably is not worth the effort, unless you really enjoy it.
Uh, that's the other thing. Yeah, you could say that we are all building images of ourselves. But you know? people are pretty good at sniffing out fakes. If you want your image to feel genuine, you need it to be genuine.
What I get from it mostly though, is that getting accepted is less about the application, and more about getting out there and getting things done.
Essentially, I can see a number of common points between both wheels' post and pg's comment:
1. It's a great idea to have something started. Once you have something started, pitching your idea and refining your pitch will surely help you out when explaining what problem you're trying to solve.
2. Contributing to HN often will help build your reputation. Nothing can help grow your reputation online like writing does. I've been told time and time again that I am an excellent writer, and that people respect me for it. If you can write well, contribute to HN.
3. Sharing your product with other people on HN is a great way to get feedback. The more feedback you receive, the greater ability you have to improve your product and eventually succeed.
4. The new(er) feature that allows you to post a video of you and your co-founders may actually be invaluable to getting accepted into the program. I would agree with this in that it's hard to judge a person's qualities from their writing alone. A video will give you a deeper look at their personality, and maybe a glimpse of whether or not they could handle a program such as YC.
With point four in mind, I was wondering if anyone has any advice on a little problem I am having. The problem is derived from the fact that my single co-founder is currently in NYC for the next few months. What would be the best way to create a video for our application, if we are both in different countries?
Thanks,
jlgosse
I did this because my co-founder was on tour in the Cayman Islands when we decided to apply for funding. I do not like being on camera, so we were not going to submit a video at all. Pg emailed us and suggested we complete the video. We got an interview, but were not accepted, for reasons which have proven to be painfully prescient.
Another question might be, "How would you have faired had you been a mere lurker on HN?"
The reason why some people succeed, even when everyone tells them they're wrong, is they do something they believe in. Everything else is secondary.
I'm living in a fairly out of the way location as far as the IT world is concerned, HN is pretty much the only contact I have with fellow hackers working on a myriad of interesting stuff.
There hasn't been an ask HN post that I put out that didn't come back with several insightful options, the sum of which was larger than the experience of any one live person that I know.
It's a fantastic resource, and a place where you can make friends that are hackers too.
That it's a factor in getting your YC application judged can safely be ignored, the very few edge cases where that's applicable do not make it worth the effort for those that might be inclined to try to game the system by flooding hn with 'insightful' comments.
In fact it's probably statistically pretty easy to puncture that balloon.
Then get back to work.
"You don't know shit" is a constant reminder that you need to try harder--that you haven't figured everything out. You need to live in a state of paranoia that others are just about to release something greater.
See, some people are irritated or shocked by my self-deprecation. The thing is, I would be absolutely insufferable if I let my ego out. I do it every now and then, you know. Most startups are populated by people who have egos that can rival mine, in part because having an ego that large makes you think you can do it better than everyone else, and in part because investors tend to prefer confident people. (I personally think investors are morons in this regard, but what do I know? Managers seem to agree with them. I have seen my more capable but less confident peers get passed over for me or someone like me more times than I can count.)
For me, Yeah, I constantly need to remind myself I don't know everything, or else I end up doing something really stupid. You know I once got into a mailing list argument with Lee Felsenstein about how to run a computer club? Yeah, I looked pretty stupid. See, that's the sort of thing that happens if I don't keep my ego in check.
I know many people who are more capable than I am in every respect who don't have that massive ego. Yeah, for one of those people (who I think would be excellent founders, some of them.) 'you don't know shit' would be a bad thing to remind them. Yes, for them, you'd probably want something positive and encouraging. But for someone like me? "You don't know shit" is quite appropriate.
I don't see why it wouldn't be an asset for a startup founder to be brimming with confidence in his own product.
Once you appreciate that these things arent much more than educated guesses, you can be a lot more focussed actually determining how people react to your product, as opposed to going off and coding what noone wants.
On the other hand trying to fulfill every customer wish and implement all features users suggest is not every time a good idea. Usually it leads to an over complex product that is not well adapted to "young markets" of "untrained" customers. Is like trying to sell them a dvr enabled TV set when they just learn how to change channels.
I actually feel relieved since I have come to the realization that your dies are not inherently supposed to work. They are mere hypothesis until proven by the market. It is true for every entrepreneur--no matter how successful.
Our video will probably have the following flow:
* 5 seconds to introduce our co-founders
* 10 seconds on what we're going to create
* 10 seconds on how our product solves a major problem
* 10 seconds on why we're the right team for the job
* 10 seconds to demo our prototype
* 10 seconds on why we would be a good candidate for YC
* 5 seconds of witty banter mixed throughout just because
Thoughts?
:-D
Regular seed funding groups can work that way, sure. But they're for different purposes.
But yeah, you are right. it's not about the money. It would probably make economic sense for me to give 6% of my company to pg, even without getting any cash, just for the marketing effects.
I stand corrected, though it wasn't the main point.
On the one hand it's seed stage, the very large majority of seed investments turns out to be wasted money, so there is a premium to be expected.
On the other hand $20K means that the startup will be looking for money again in the very near future, and getting follow up investments is a very time consuming job.
Then there is the fact that YC makes a bunch of very invasive requirements of the 'founders', they have to basically give up their life and family for this chance to be a player. That's a decision everybody makes for themselves of course, but you have to balance what YC can give you (a one time shot at the jackpot) to what you've already got.
I think this is why YC skews to younger people, the price to pay for a chance like this is a lot smaller when you're younger.
Also, older people tend to be unimpressed by $20K, especially if it is for multiple founders.