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Comment by wil421 | Hacker News Reader

Well in my state, Georgia, anyone can go to any public college in the state for free with the Hope Scholarship.

Have a 3.0? Dont have any drug arrests or convictions? Legal resident of Georgia/USA?

Then all of your tuition will be paid by the state unless you drop below a 3.0. The lottery is what funds this scholarship and its really great.

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That's excellent, but it seems insane to not make this available for people with drug arrests.

I think insane is a pretty huge overstatement. It's stupid, sure, but not insane. And it's no more or less stupid than singling out any other specific crime.

Speeding? Jaywalking? Because that's the level of danger non-violent drug crimes present. To deny someone an education, something so valuable to not only their future but a value to society at large, over a minor crime is to cut off our nose to spite our face.

No lolligaggin'.

Insane, stupid, misguided -- pick your adjective.

A bad idea, let's agree :)

I'm glad to hear that Georgia provides the scholarship. It is a pity that the state can't come up with a less regressive tax than the lottery.

"A fool and his money..." These people are going to manage their money poorly no matter what, and if you have a gambling prohibition you're going to just make it more dangerous for them. This seems like the best use of their citizen's need for gambling.

Coincidentally, that's how I justify my crack-dealing and murder-for-hire sidelines.

edit: If not from me, than from someone else, right? If that's not a vapid argument, you should be upvoting my entrepreneurship (even though it's in a well-trod space.) I also donate to open source projects...

You're getting the downvotes, but I think you have a good point - at least the crack dealing bit; not so much the assassin part. I do find it morally suspect for the government to be in the gambling business. It's a cynical and lazy way to raise revenue.

The demographic that buys lottery tickets is largely die-hard anti-tax red that would never vote to fund education from raised taxes on anyone's income... a bit ironic when you think about it.

it isn't about gambling demographic, it is about voting demographic. To make the "salt of the earth holier than thou value" voters to vote for gambling you need to throw them a good cause they would thus supposedly support by their votes.

If that's true, it's not ironic. Buying a lottery ticket is a choice. Paying taxes imposed on the entire population is not a choice.

Calling lotteries "tax" is only a cynical hyperbole; they are not actually a tax. People voluntarily play lotteries, whereas taxes are coerced. You do not face fines or jail time if you quit playing lotteries, like you do if you don't pay taxes. Being voluntary, lottery bets more closely resemble donations than taxes.

(Taxes on lottery winnings are a different story, of course; not talking about that here).

I'm appalled that you would suggest that it is better that people be coerced into paying for something which is adequately funded by "donations" through the lottery system.

Agreed, call it a "tax" is entirely a condescending attitude:

"These poor folk who play the lottery only do it because they're intellectually inferior to me."

To call the lottery a tax is an insult to those who choose to play.

You sure thinned the ranks of 'anyone' quickly. Even legal residents of the USA from abroad face barriers because most other countries don't employ the US's grade point averaging system, but employ matriculation instead. If I hadn't lived here so long I wouldn't even know what a '3.0' referred to.

It sure beats nothing which is what a lot of other States provide over here.

Sure, but the parent said anyone can get the scholarship, which is not true.

Yes, anyone in my state who qualifies.

When the bar is so low, it's not hard to beat it.

Well true. I just reacted to it because it had a feeling of:

  Free education for all!*

  * not really

which will be painfully familiar to many education consumers, eg you spend time looking at a college's website but when you try to find information about scholarships or financial aid it gets very vague on the details and you may have to submit an application (and fee) to get more specifics.

I assume that this is for in-state students only, all of whom should understand the grading system.

> Have a 3.0? Dont have any drug arrests or convictions?

The first two things are the reason why a lot of people I knew had to go to community college instead of directly to university. Florida has a similar program (Bright Futures) that has similar GPA requirements (and also community service and test scores). These programs are nice and all, but a far cry from actually making education beyond secondary school reachable for most people.

I will make an unpopular statement, "college is not for everyone". The good news is not every one needs a college degree to succeed, even in this very field of software, college degree is "unessential". I am sure if the person below 3.0 GPA is passionate about learning and attaining college degree avenues should be open.

How's the in-state tuition for students who can't maintain a GPA in high school because they worked through it?

For most schools its around 3,000-4,500 a semester for about 12-18 hours. Community college cost a little bit less but not by much (GaTech, Kennesaw State, Ga State, Ga Perimeter College)

Our largest school, University of Georgia, its a bit more. Something like $10,000 a semester but the tuition is the same at each school the fees are much higher at UGA.

*Georgia Tech - I am not 100% on tuition/fees for this school.

I feel you on the working while in school thing, thats the reason I lost my Hope Scholarship!

Is a university really an appropriate place to send someone who couldn't keep up with high school coursework, whatever the reason, in the first place? At the very least, wouldn't we need some kind of preparatory education in between? There may be exceptions but I think it'd be hard for universities to evaluate if they are academically qualified.

As an aside, I know of several states that have similar programs - I'd thought that in many states, so long as you scored sufficiently high on the SAT or ACT, you were eligible to automatically get a partial (if lower) or full (if higher) scholarship to in-state public institutions.

>Is a university really an appropriate place to send someone who couldn't keep up with high school coursework, whatever the reason, in the first place?

A really good question. I'd say the US does a very poor job of either providing that preparatory edu for those who need it or guiding those who fall out of the educational system into trade schools and other vocations, something that Germany also does very well. Not sure what the solution is for the US... we're so focused on the people at the top and the bottom that everyone else is left out.

For what it's worth, most programs really can't assume much about incoming classes having a solid background, so there is a lot of remedial effort in first year anyway.

So yes, if you were basically competent but didn't put the time in in highschool, for whatever reason, then sure - if you're willing to do the work no reason they can't succeed.

And given that high schools are such a mixed bag, I do think it's worth at least looking at giving more kids a shot. It might be interesting to have a slate of such scholarships reserved for students who wouldn't qualify on entry, but would after first semester/year.

Which isn't to say everyone should go, I really wish there were more real vocational options. But if they want it and can do the work, absolutely.

Georgia has a good way of dealing with this as well. As recently as a few years ago(they made some recent changes, I'm not sure about now) you could go to a college, get a 3.0 GPA and become eligible for the scholarships. There is also a fantastic exchange program that allows academically late bloomers to transfer to better schools once they start performing better. Both of my brothers took advantage of these means. They both transferred from community colleges to Georgia Tech from community colleges once they got their act together.( and both ended up graduating with highest honors and with less than 10k in debt) If you are that confident you are capable of college but werent able to prov it in high school, i think having to put up a years worth of costs before the state will help you out is a good gatekeeper to making sure only those for whom that is actually the case benefit from the system. At a minimum, it raises the stakes of you succeeding.

That sounds like a good program.

This seems an odd one to be "downvoted", enough so I'm curious why. I wouldn't have noticed except it changes the font color.

Louisiana has a similar program. If you have a 2.5 GPA and at least a 20 on the ACT, your in-state tuition is paid for (for the base award). You can also qualify for an additional stipend for having higher GPA/ACT scores.

Myself and many of my friends got our degrees with $0 debt.

http://www.osfa.state.la.us/MainSitePDFs/TOPS_OPH_brochure_8...

I had a 2.8 in high school, didn't get Hope, and ended up in community college. It's not as trivial as you make it out to be, honestly.

Interestingly, a report came out a couple of years ago recommending it be changed to a 2.5 minimum and a $100k income cap[1], to broaden access to lower-income students. Didn't happen, though.

[1] http://gbpi.org/hope-on-a-tightrope

Doesn't sound too great for the (disproportionately black and poor) victims of the drug war...

w-t-agenda?

Considering that 2 out of the 4 largest schools here have more African Americans than any group, I would say it sounds great.

That statistic is meaningless without a description of the demographics of Georgia, the quality (rather than size) of the schools, and a comparison between the communities in which these schools are each located.

For example: if all black people in Georgia interested in higher education were forced to attend the two worst quality and most underresourced schools, they would probably rank amongst the largest.

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