Toyota plans 3.8M vehicles recall. 2007-2010 Camry, 2004-2009 Prius... | Hacker News Reader

Toyota plans 3.8M vehicles recall. 2007-2010 Camry, 2004-2009 Prius...

reuters.com

17 pointsyu23 comments

"Before the crash, a passenger in the car had called 911 and told dispatchers that the accelerator was stuck and the car had reached 120 miles per hour (193 km per hour).

The recall will cover the Camry and Avalon sedans, the Prius hybrid, the Tacoma and Tundra pickup trucks and luxury Lexus models, the IS250 and the IS350 as well as the ES350."

Yikes that's tragic. I am not familiar with floormats in Toyotas and what they might look like in comparison to the accelerator pedal, but I was taught in driver's ed and at the racetrack where I run my car that should you ever run into a situation where your pedal gets stuck there are a few things you should do (which I know might not be apparent during a panic situation):

1) put your foot under the gas pedal and try to lift it up. never attempt to crawl down there to figure it out

2) turn off the ignition. you can safely brake and steer to safety without power. just takes a bit of force as you don't have power brakes/steering..

3) worst case scenario put it in neutral. engine will rev to hell without load and potentially get damaged but at least you can control the car safely and get to safety/pull over.

Did they suggest those in a particular order?

I would consider reversing the order of those from a desirability standpoint, particlularly if the throttle is forced wide open (as opposed to partially). Most of the time the rev limiter will prevent any damage (and who cares if it doesn't, even a $3000 engine is less than a night at the hospital). IMO the car isn't even a thing to consider saving.

If it fails to switch into neutral while the engine is loaded, turning the key one click in the off direction will unload the tension in the driveline and possibly give it what it needs to shift to neutral (electric shifting transmissions might only benefit from the first few milliseconds after reapplying power). Then you can turn the key back on.

The "dig at it with your toes" solution is worth a shot if you have the time, or if it's only revving slightly above the desired level. I would be afraid that it would take concentration away from the primary objective (keeping the car pointed away from cars and fixed objects).

From the article:

Federal investigators also found many owners were not aware that it takes three seconds to turn off the electronic ignition button that comes standard on that model [Lexus ES350] and the Prius.

Many owners also complained that it was not obvious how to put a runaway vehicle in neutral because of the design of the Toyota gear panel.

engine shouldn't get damaged if you put it in neutral, it'll just bounce off the rev limiter repeatedly.

you are correct. i was stuck in racecar land. my car doesn't have a rev limiter by way of ECU tune and the fuel pump is upgraded so the engine will just redline until (valves) something breaks!

that being said, bouncing off the limiter is fine for a minute so you can pull over and turn off the car.

I prefer cars with a clutch. You could use the clutch pedal if the accelerator gets stuck.

That's what neutral does. I'm surprised 911 didn't say anything about turning off the ignition.

In many vehicles turning the ignition off is likely more dangerous than having a stuck ignition as it can cause steering wheel lock; either way you're doing 120MPH and one way you can avoid the bystanders, the other you'll plough right into them. The cops, no matter how much you want them to, will never ask you to kill the annoying bystanders.

Do you know if most people in the US ever use the neutral gear in automatic transmission cars?

turn off the ignition

Careful - a kid recently crashed into oncoming traffic here in Sydney because his car locked the steering wheel when he turned the key. (He was trying to save fuel by coasting.) I know my car does the same thing.

Yup, tried it once at low speed, same effect. Technically if you only cut the power but don't turn the key all the way down, it won't lock. But the chances of being that careful in this situation are null.

I'm surprised simply braking doesn't work. AFAIK, break power should be (much?) greater then engine power.

It'll definitely slow you down, but it might not last long. If I was in that situation I'd definitely try unsticking the gas pedal first. I'd also say be prepared to cut your ignition, because if your brake pads fail (brake pads are designed to cool down between use and I'm not sure what prolonged heating would do to them, I know when your callipers get stuck you can wear out the pad and the router pretty quickly) you're going to be up shit creek without an anchor.

I'd always suggest trying to slow (by whatever means necessary) before turning your ignition off. Probably #1 would be to unstick the gas pedal, #2 would be to put it into neutral, #3 would be brake like a nut and #4 would be turn off the ignition (if you can't get it into neutral for some mysterious reason, or if you stopped safely of course). In reality your ignition really shouldn't be turned off until you've got your parking/hand brake on, turning it off while driving is dangerous, especially if you're on a highway.

Very complicated in an automatic transmission car it seems. Very simple in a manual transmission car. You just press the clutch. You could even stop and start again and drive around with a little abuse of the clutch pedal.

Agh. On all key type ignition switches there is a position between run and lock. On most non-US products that's where the "accessory" position is. (US brands tend to put accessory past lock the other direction).

On automatic transmission automobiles the ignition switch is also required (US federal law, I believe) to not lock if the transmission is in a gear other than park.

Yea I think this kid was driving a cheap 90s manual car.

I'm sure it's bad and all, but don't recalls happen for car models all the time? BMW "recalled" my car a bunch of times; what it meant was, if I didn't get the car to the shop for a free repair, I'd have a harder time suing them if the (I think it was the) gas pump caused the car to explode.

I think the story here was that it was 3.8 million cars. That's high enough to get it into the top 10 car recalls, of all time. Top is probably the 10+ million cruise control switch issue Ford had to recall on virtually all 1993+ cars.

Did they reimburse you for the lost time? If not, you should sue them. That being to only thing companies care about.

I don't drive, so I am curious: what is the effect of pressing the brake and the accelerator at the same time?

That'll slow the car down, and bring it to a stop if the brakes are in good condition.

It's really simple to recover from a jammed open throttle (it's happened to me) - and I think it's the kind of thing that ought to be taught in driving lessons.

You have heaps of options, either knock the car into neutral, turn off the ignition (before the steering lock), stand on the clutch (if it's manual), stand on the brakes or as a very last option gently start to apply the parking brake.

Forgive my ignorance, but is a "state trooper" a cop? I can't believe an off duty cop would let the car get up to almost 120mph. Aren't they trained?

Thanks for the answer. This is what I would have guessed. (The first thing I would try if my car was gaining speed too quickly would be the brakes.)

Forgive my ignorance, but is a "state trooper" a cop?

Yes.

I can't believe an off duty cop would let the car get up to almost 120mph. Aren't they trained?

I guess everyone can panic when something that they consider safe starts going out of control. You'd think cops would be trained to handle this, considering they are in stressful situations with a loaded handgun everyday.

I have a feeling that we are not getting the whole story here.

it is important to know if your car is FWD/RWD/AWD. you don't want to do this if you have a FWD or AWD car. the brakes will be applied to a powered axle and the brakes will just roast. (front brakes = majority of braking power, or all of it depending on car, when you hit the brake pedal. rear brakes sometimes reserved for e-brake only)

that being said - applying brakes and full-throttle to a RWD car will either bog down the engine/transmission and do nothing if under-powered, or if you have some power it will break traction while the car stands still, effectively "burning out" your rear tires and smoking them. then you can do fun things like donuts :D

I wonder how many people were labeled as crazy, "got their license at sears" or drunk before this was taken seriously? (note how it goes back to 2004)

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