Fitbit Charge, Charge HR and Surge | Hacker News Reader

Fitbit Charge, Charge HR and Surge

blog.fitbit.com

109 pointsvalanto90 comments

So they're announcing new products again.

Tell me when they update their app for the new iPhone. Tell me when they decide that when there's a bug that makes the calorie tracking almost useless for existing users they won't just fix it for new people and pretend it didn't happen, instead actually telling users who were affected and lost months and months of data.

Tell me when they decide to integrate into HealthKit.

Or maybe just fixing a bunch of the weird little UI things that have been wrong with the app since the iOS 7 version launch.

When FitBit pretends to care about their software they might be worth considering again. Right now they're behaving like just another hardware manufacturer who only makes half-assed attempts at software.

This is why I skipped the high priced crap and went straight to a pedometer. It's not perfect, but it is engineered to serve its purpose and does so in a predictable way.

What is this high-price-point, high-maintenance appliance worth if it's broken for significant portions of its audience and requires constant updates that don't actually happen to run or keep running?

I have friends who use and love these. Frankly, for the headaches they deal with, my ~20USD pedometer sits in my pocket and reliably estimates both my distance traveled and calories burned. No fuss, no muss, no upgrades, no OS issues. It does one thing and does it pretty well; I'd rather have that than have an appliance that attempts to do a lot of things and manages it rather poorly.

When I bought my FitBit it was a very nice device. The app worked and the fact that it handled figuring out total calories made it very easy to use.

But at some point there was a bug in their software which they never bothered to tell me about. I recently asked support they said that they actually knew about the problem it had turned it off for all new users so they wouldn't hit it. But they never told me. So I have about 18 months of data we're most days I expended almost exactly 3000 calories which is a total lie.

On top of that the quality of the app has been terrible ever since they released the iOS 7 version last year. They had clearly implemented custom controls which cease to work well when iOS 7 came out, and after more than a year and numerous bug reports they still haven't fixed any of them. The app is been redesigned a few times; clearly to push whatever their current goal is. In doing so they have actually taken away extremely useful features.

I spent a lot of time looking around find the best company with a health tracker. At the time FitBit was the clear winner.

But it seems that since the market growing they're happy to do whatever they want and the money keeps flowing in. It doesn't matter how you treat current customers. Once you've sold the device they don't matter.

Can you point me to a link with some information about this bug? I'm a current Flex owner and would love to learn about this.

I don't know if it's posted anywhere, here's what support told me (after a few back and forth emails and escalations):

> There is a setting on every users profile that allows enabling or disabling of Calorie Estimation. This function gives users an estimation of calories based on their profile history. Its best suited for users that maintain the same relative activity level daily, in case they forget to wear their trackers some of the time. Calorie Estimation used to be enabled by default, but due to some discrepancies such as yours, it is now disabled by default for new users until we can improve the technology.

> I recommend that you turn the Calorie Estimator off on your profile.

So the feature that adjusts your calorie burn based on your activity broke calorie burn estimation. If you turn the feature off.... everything works as expected. Note that I fit perfectly into the "maintain the same relative daily activity level" category.

They knew about it, they turned it off for new users because it caused problems, they left it on for existing users and didn't tell them even if the bug was occurring.

http://help.fitbit.com/articles/en_US/Help_article/How-does-...

"Calorie estimation is used when no activities are logged or data is synced." If that's accurate, then it only "broke" calorie burn estimation on days when you didn't wear your Fitbit.

I have a fitbit zip, their cheapest model, which I leave clipped to my keyring.All it does (that I care about) is step counting, which syncs via bluetooth.

About 3 months ago it broke (after many ears of success) and after looking around at all the alternatives I bought... another fitbit zip. I just hope they don't decide to stop making it.

I have an Ultra but I would always forget to dock it and recharge. So I got the Zip. Couldn't be happier especially since their Android app syncs without my having to ask it to.

I have a One and the only thing I use it for is step tracking. It works great.

Their software ecosystem is becoming a disaster.

I find it vaguely amusing that this whole mini-industry seems to have grown up around selling selling devices that are pretty much just pedometers. (I get that for some people all the computerized record-keeping is a big deal that makes for a difference in kind but still...)

Kind of like the industry that's grown up around phones? :) once you connect gadgets the web, some things become much greater than when they're on their own.

My point (such as it was :-)) is that, for me, the connecting on the web thing doesn't much change the fact that most of what you're doing is just measuring the number of steps you take with varying degrees of accuracy. I can already do that with a pedometer or, under most circumstances, more accurately with a GPS. That said, I appreciate that a lot of folks find that they get a lot of incremental value out of the web-connected part whether for gamification or other reasons. And, hey, whatever encourages exercise and activity. I'm just not especially wired for that type of incentive.

Exactly, I bought Flex, Force, Aria and I used to love Fitbit as a company. All the recent shit they pulled off made me very disappointed. Not gonna throw another cent at them.

The Aria is the one thing I've never had a single problem with.

If it wasn't for that, I'd delete my FitBit account and throw the thing away.

Last month I was considering buying a fitbit flex. Then I did enough research to realize that they were probably about to announce new products... so waiting was the sane response. Unfortunately, in that time period they've started feuding with Apple, and that makes them a no-go. HealthKit is actively being useful to me at this point, so I want anything I buy to work with it.

Maybe the Apple Watch will be more compelling to me than I had initially thought?

McDonald's used to have a promotion where they gave away pedometers for free with purchase of like a small french fry. Now we have 50 companies like Fitbit trying to sell them for $100 like they are multi-featured devices (steps! calories! distance!) when it's really just a McDonald's free toy combined with a casio watch

It tracks step counts and syncs them to my phone. That was all I wanted.

Now it doesn't do that correctly.

But my new iPhone has an M7 and is tracking my steps. There's a good chance my FitBit app will get deleted soon.

It's too late to edit but just to note:

FitBit released a new version of the app today that seems to handle the iPhone 6 screen size correctly. It only took a month, and they didn't even think it was important enough to mention in the release notes.

v2.5? It doesn't on my iPhone 6 plus.

Perhaps I'm wrong. I've got a normal 6 so it can be a bit harder to tell.

Edit: Yup, you're right. I thought the text looked sharper but I pulled up the keyboard and it's definitely in upscale mode.

My first thoughts were along these lines as well. I recently purchased a Jawbone UP instead of a Fitbit because of the Jawbones awesome integration with tons of other apps, including Healthkit (which currently sucks, but someday won't). I much preferred Fitbit's hardware, but the software ecosystem just wasn't there.

This might be the time to ask: Does anybody know of an activity tracker (like the Pebble or FitBit devices) that doesn't need to upload data to a distant server in order to analyze and give me insights? I want a piece of software for OS X or Windows that can sync with the device and help me interpret the data. I want to store the data myself and I don't want to be dependent on an internet connection.

Is there such a device? Or, should I just accept has the data collection economy has penetrated all aspects of our lives?

That seems to be exactly what apple is trying to do with healthkit/healthbook. Store that data for apps so they dont have to worry about privacy/security. So any device that would sync with healthbook would do this for you (so long as you could disable third party service syncing)

For insights I think you would need to upload. They are able to provide those insights by analysing the data of all of their users.

Not true at all. They could send down a batch of insights and do local matching to expose the proper ones.

How would you suggest they generate insights to begin with? And what local matching are you proposing here?

Misfit on Pebble doesn't upload on Android, that feature is currently disabled. It provides one week graphs of sleep and activity right on the watch itself.

I think they've since fixed this on iOS, at least for synching to the phone app (which was temporarily disabled as well on iOS). It looks like it now syncs as soon as the app is fired up. However, I'm not sure that the Pebble app even requires the Misfit mobile app. So you could just run the Pebble app, and remember to look at the stats on the watch at least once a week.

Yes. Polar lower level monitors will do this. They don't have Bluetooth, but will analyze stuff right on the watch. Workout-only, but it's a fantastic way to boost your workouts.

So having used a Polar heart rate monitor (the kind with the chest strap), I am used to the heart rate to be very accurately measured. The downside to the Polar HRM is that I can't wear it 24/7. It'd be nice to see my HR all day long, but the strap is not comfortable for anything but actual workouts. The improved version of my HRM includes Bluetooth to connect to my phone, a GPS unit, and a large display that shows me where I'm going. It also includes things like connectivity to a cycle computer on an exercise bike, etc. All of this is still workout-only, but doesn't help with day to day stuff.

Now, the Charge HR and Surge promise the same thing without the chest strap. This sounds really appealing, and it's at a price point that's very competitive with the Polar and Garmin products. However, I doubt that it's that accurate. The reason is that I am sure that if the technology existed to get rid of the strap, by now Polar and Garmin would have been all over it. Remember, these companies are targeting people that are very serious about getting info about their workouts only. If they could deliver the same level of accuracy without the annoying chest strap, or even with the chest strap that you didn't have to use with electrode gel, they would.

What I suspect will happen is the same thing as happened with the previous iterations: you will get moderately accurate heart rate at rest, but when you start running, swimming, playing basketball, etc., the FitBit will not get a reading.

I'd love to be proven wrong. The moment I see serious fitness nerds jumping from Polar to FitBit, I'll join them. Until then, I remain skeptical.

> However, I doubt that it's that accurate.

It's not that it's not accurate. In comparisons of two products (Samsung Gear Fit and an as-of-yet-unannounced product) with my Polar and Garmin straps, it seems to be close enough...when it works. And that's the trick, because if I can't consistently get it to work, then it effectively doesn't work at all. But if the strap isn't tight, forget it. And during exercise it just won't reliably give you HR regardless. Either it just gives up, or it tries to pretend that it worked when conditions were not optimal to get an accurate reading.

> The moment I see serious fitness nerds jumping from Polar to FitBit, I'll join them. Until then, I remain skeptical.

Serious fitness nerd here (well, just an obsessive runner, really) with a shelf full of Garmin and Polar devices. I doubt FitBit will ever even try to grab that market. If they do, they appear to lack the experience (and chops, for that matter) to pull off grabbing the 70 mile/week marathoner market (or serious triathlete, et. al.). It's a big jump from "inactive person who needs motivation to get off their ass" to "serious athlete who wants accurate telemetry presented in a useful manner". Even Garmin and Polar struggle with that, and they've been at it for years.

Yes, I guess that's what I mean. For me, the Polar strap works 99% of the time. The times it stops working just need to wet it. I try to clean it well, and use the electrode gel to keep it working. It's messy, but worth knowing that my HRM is actually recording my workout. If Polar or Garmin had access to technology to make this messiness go away, I think they'd pounce on it. I don't think FitBit is big enough to innovate on something like that.

But the first company to crack getting HR affordably and reliably without a separate strap? Take my money! A watch that can do it well - in rain, freezing weather, with salty sweat, or sunshine - would be incredibly cool. The strap is by far the weakest link of Garmin and Polar watches.

> However, I doubt that it's that accurate.

How accurate is accurate? As someone who works out casually, I'd be happy with something that gave even ± 10 bpm, because that'd be far more information than I currently have.

If, however, as another poster speculated it's more of the case that it only works intermittently, then that's a deal breaker.

I think it'd be intermittent. The problem is that you move around too much when you work out. An simple electrical sensor needs constant contact with your skin to read your HR. If it comes loose, it won't give you a wrong reading, it'll give you no reading. This is the current state of the art.

The optical HRM thing they are saying they have is likely to have the same problem. I doubt it'd give you bad data, just no data.

Do you think that'd be the case even if you tighten the strap significantly for a workout?

Yes. It's not just good contact. It's about good electrical contact. For example, if the strap is dry, even if it's directly on the skin, it won't pick up a signal.

I suspect that this optical LED-based HRM tech is going to have its own problems. For example, if it has to sit close to a vein, and you move it slightly. Or if it has to be relatively tight on the wrist. Or if the LED's get dirty because of sweat.

Thanks for the feedback--that's interesting. I'd assumed these were all LED based. If it is electrical contact related, could you not use a gel like another commenter mentioned using with a chest strap?

It seems like a gimmick, but I've had good results with one of the iPhone apps where you place your finger over the camera and it's illuminated by the flash. You have to keep the finger in a constant position, but it works reliably if you do. So I have hope for new technology.

Completely different area, but there's this technology:

http://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/vidmag/

which seems surprisingly robust. If you can get heart rate from standard video, I wouldn't be surprised to find it's possible to get a reliable signal with a LED and light sensor placed directly against the skin–especially if it's done in addition to an electrical signal.

Either way, we'll find out soon enough. The Apple watch claims to give heart rate too, and they're going to get absolutely slammed in the media if they don't live up to it. Will be interesting to see!

A bit off-topic, but I find it interesting how your experience differs from mine. Most of the time I slap my strap on bone dry and it works fine. If not, a little lick on each electrode gets it working. I do have some gel I bought at the behest of my wife, because she finds the application of saliva to be disgusting. Right, because it's gross to put spit on something that's going to be stewing in my sweaty juices in just a few minutes. But once it's working, it stays working (probably because I sweat profusely during exercise).

Anyway, I wonder if the difference is body chemistry, maybe you have a little more fat (single digit % here), or who knows what.

As far as I can tell from using two optical HR devices, the accuracy is all over the place during exercise. So it's not as simple as -+X bpm. If that were the case I could live with it for sufficiently small values of X. But X may be 10, it may then go to 40 (no, I'm not exaggerating), then down to 5 or less. Like a bathroom scale, accuracy isn't an issue if it's consistently inaccurate. But during exercise optical HR monitors give the appearance of being a RNG with LED lights, without the advantage of sufficient entropy to be used for cryptography. IOW, kinda useless.

I purchased a Fitbit Flex over a year ago and at the time I was really happy that I chose it over competitors.

However, since I learnt recently that they're not going to be integrating with the Health app, I've got absolutely zero interest in continuing to use the device as the iPhone app is terrible and I've been using Health.app a lot recently tracking flight count, steps etc.

The iPhone app is really broken. It doesn't work on the iPhone 6, doesn't count calories correctly and refuses to connect to the Flex for the first couple of attempts.

Silly Fitbit, I thought you were a cool company.

I wonder how broken their engineering org is if they cannot even let their 1+ iOS engineers implement it properly o_O.

I think not integrating with HealthKit is a strategy decision, not an issue of resources.

Right. I'm pretty sure they want to BE HealthKit, not part of Apple's thing. They've offered integration for a few years.

PS: Who remembers OpenFeint on iOS? Yeah.

Every product link in this announcement being a 404 is the quality I've come to expect from Fitbit.

(Now on my fourth Flex in just under a year, with the first three dying in precisely the same way. Fitbit replaced them all under warranty, so I can't fault them there. But I'd prefer if they lasted more than a few months.)

Is it common to use bit.ly links when linking to your products off your own press release? I understand that bit.ly offers link analytics but I can't imagine they offer something that you couldn't do in house that offsets the loss of branding by not advertising with your own domain.

It is common on third-party sites, but not on the same domain. It's often just PR and marketing people who don't know they have better options for tracking. Some do know better, but can't get access to the data they need (for various bad reasons).

Going to have to pile on here. The Flex seemed like it was going to be cool, but then the software was buggy for the longest time--wouldn't sync, silent alarms wouldn't work, etc. These are largely fixed but now they won't add HealthKit support. Seems stupid since the software isn't their strong point. But whatever, despite the lock-in attempts I'm not sticking with their stuff. Really like the Flex form factor but can't stand the platform at this point.

So pricing wise Fitbit Charge-$130, Fitbit Charge HR-$150 and Fitbit Surge-$250.

Why even have the entry level Charge? For 20 bucks more I get (allegedly) accurate Wrist based Heart Rate Monitoring, so why would I not spring for the Charge HR over the Charge?

The top end model is a whole $100 more expensive and going into Moto 360 pricing - too expensive IMO.

Better structure:

Charge $99

Charge HR $149

Surge $199

The fact that all of these get 5 days or more of battery life is the key for me. I do not want another thing in my schedule that I need to top up daily - no way.

If they didn't have a $99 model, one would think the $150 is expensive. There is have a crippled, just slightly lower-priced model so that people who want to "optimize" the price think that they're so clever by getting the level-up. Just like one thinks "Cool, I'm getting twice the amount of pop for 25 cents more!" but you would have been happy with a single can of Coke for a dollar, now you have a 32oz cup of fountain Coke for $1.75.

Regarding the battery (Flex owner here), I find that the slightly-more-than-once-weekly charging schedule annoying. If it could last 8 or 9 days, I would just charge it at the same time every week. Now I have to keep monitoring this thing and figure out when's a good time to charge it so I don't miss steps.

That's the definition of price anchoring... That makes look like the $150 device is a bargain, because for ONLY $20 more you get the HRM, distracting from the more objective consideration of the price of the item.

How does price anchoring work with physical products though?

They still have to manufacture the product at the lower price point because someone will buy it, do they just manufacture less stock for the lower price point (and higher for the other two) and hope the demand doesn't exceed the stock levels?

Regarding the Surge, if it competes with offerings like the Garmin Forerunner 220 (and the GPS is accurate) it might be a really good price point. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/running/forerunn...

They're still selling the One and Flex at $100.

I anxiously read the specs of the new products, sure that they would have seen the error of their ways when they went from waterproof with the 'flex', to non-waterproof with the 'force'. But nope, they're still wasting my time.

Apparently the 'flex' was the anomaly, and non-waterproof jewelry that can't be showered with, swam with, or wash the dishes with, is what they actually think is a good fitness product.

"Records multi-sport activities like running, cross-training and strength workouts; see comprehensive summaries with tailored metrics, workout intensity and calories burned"

I wonder how it records strength workouts? It would be good to see strength training get the same benefits from these devices as cardio-based training does.

Since Fitbit has an API, what is stopping developers from making a Fitbit-to-HealthKit data transfer app?

I like my Fitbit, but I'm having a hard time liking the company.

Thing is, they're providing a service, and they're only charging for a product. I don't think this is sustainable and it makes me feel very uneasy about the safety of my data.

The cherry on the cake is that they already put their Data Export feature behind a paywall (though last I checked they allow you to retrieve a small subset of your data once for free). I concede that storing that data costs money, but they do not provide an option for me to use my own servers for that. This leaves me feeling like they're holding my data hostage, and I don't like that.

I'm looking at ways of intercepting that traffic and setting up my own server, and am interested in any similar or related projects.

Fitbit syncing on Android is constantly broken. Don't have this issue with other BLE devices.

Anyway, I have a bunch of wearables collecting dust (Basis, Amiigo, Alpha). They need to be worn tight to have a precise HR measuring and this always causes dermatological problems. I stopped wearing them as although I don't have allergies and always clean the band with alcohol and shower daily, yet, I still get redness, and it slowly damages your skin. If I loosen this a bit, then HR monitor stops working. I was wearing this fanatically 24x7, but even alternating arms every day didn't show improvement, so, I quit using any. They might be great devices, but the bands are poorly made, and non-breathable.

I would just give up on the continuous HR monitoring. I'm not sure of the actual value after having a basis watch for over a year now.

Basis is far worse than fitbit. No API still, and their bluetooth syncing has always been unreliable. I find I don't look at the data because it's locked into their platform, and I don't like how they organize the data in their own app. I want to get a new watch tracker soon, but so much new stuff is coming out now, I'm in a wait and see mode.

Just go for automatic sleep tracking and movement tracking. You wont have your phone with you all the time, so a wrist tracker is ideal.

Apple's watch doesn't have continuous, only on-demand HR, correct? I think they have better options and I would trust them much more than anybody else regarding choices of materials and so on. And, yeah, Basis doesn't have an API and that's another reason not to waste money into it. It's been years and they still keep our data for themselves! As a beta tester, I told them that I don't mind paying an annual fee to get access to an API, they told me they are working on it (2 years ago), and, yet, there's nothing to date!

> I would just give up on the continuous HR monitoring. I'm not sure of the actual value after having a basis watch for over a year now.

It strikes me as a "because we can" feature. Frankly, step counters almost fall into that category: "what can we do with solid-state accelerometers and gyros now that they're $2 in lots of 10K?" But beyond counting steps, not a lot has been done. (The exception were the Nike+ shoes, but I can't even find them on the Nike site anymore. Pity, too, as they were actually pretty cool.)

I fail to see the value of continuous HR monitoring. For starters, as others have pointed out, it's a PITA to get it working and keep working. I'm a scrawny guy with single-digit body fat % (I assume that the monitor has less to have to look through), and I still have to clamp a Samsung Gear Fit to my wrist to get it to work consistently. Second, what does it tell you? Your resting HR? You can do that without having to turn your hand blue from lack of blood flow. HR during exercise? Doesn't work that well, if at all, and is a HR strap that much of a burden? That your HR rises when you get pissed off in that meeting with your boss? Duh.

Maybe it's a useful metric, but I haven't seen any information on how it's useful...other than "because we can".

I would be hesitant to purchase another Fitbit device. As someone who was a hugely loyal fan of theirs, they've repeatedly dropped the ball.

I've had to replace multiple devices for loss of functionality, poor quality of the Flex band, and wrist rashes. To their credit, they've been more than responsive and replaced my products no questions asked, but it's all left me with a sour taste. Their simplistic app, confusing calorie tracking and refusal to integrate HealthKit doesn't help.

Fitbit was on top a few years back when the wearables game was still young, so a slip up here and there was acceptable, but now there are a ton of competitors with great products, so research your options.

I posted a comment on their blog a few hours ago echoing some of the sentiments here (less bugs, free the data, etc.).

It was deleted, it looks like they only want a cheerleading section in their comments.

unfortunately, many (if not most) companies do this ... this happened to me a few weeks ago on Dropcam's website as an example (it was a post about it's inability to stream the camera's video feed locally)

When I first investigated these personal fitness monitors, Fitbit was a standout (I have the Flex). It made the Jawbone look old and clumbsy. The automatic syncing was really nice. Then, my Indiegogo funded Misfit Shine came, and initially it was still behind Fitbit in terms of the app, and sleep tracking.

Then, Misfit kept updating their firmware and app, so month after month, it got better. Although not as detailed as Fitbit, when they added automatic sleep tracking, the war was over, and Misfit shine had won.

Why in the world do you tell Fitbit that you are a) going to sleep, and then b) you are now getting up?

Also, initially I thought the prospect of a USB charged device great. But then, I realized the drawbacks.

With my Shine, I can replace the standard 2032 battery every three months. So I replace it, and forget it. With Fitbit, I'd have to take it off every 4 days or so (depending on usage). The "lasts a week" thing is a lie. And if I was travelling, I'd have to think if I need to take the USB charger or not. With the Shine, no worries, unless I am going somewhere for more than 3 months!

Another thing that really sucks about the Fitbit are the bands. Yeh you got lots of colours, but they break! And then you'll have to spend $30 for 3 bands. Whether you like all three colours or not, you'll have to buy 3 at a time. I guess you'll use them all, because they all will eventually break.

The wrist band Shine comes with isn't super either. It is a cheap rubber band, but it didn't break. I bought a nice leather one about a year after because I wanted to, not because the original one broke.

I have the Aria too, that product I still like, and I still use the Fitbit app just for that. I wish that could integrate with Healthkit.

I think the only thing Fitbit is still ahead of the Shine is with the online app. But in terms of functionality and long term durability, the Shine for me, is a clear winner.

> Why in the world do you tell Fitbit that you are a) going to sleep, and then b) you are now getting up?

It made more sense on the FitBit One, the previous device. It had to go in a special arm band at night to do that feature.

At this point I hate this feature because I accidentally press the button on my One and it decides that means I sleep-walked for 6 hours in the middle of the day. There is no way to turn the tracking off totally, I just have to watch and remove the errant data when I accidentally trigger it.

> With my Shine, I can replace the standard 2032 battery every three months. So I replace it, and forget it. With Fitbit, I'd have to take it off every 4 days or so (depending on usage). The "lasts a week" thing is a lie.

My FitBit One lasts a week, but it's a bigger device and could hold more battery. The 'children's FitBit' (the Zip?) also does the 2032 battery thing and lasts months.

> I have the Aria too, that product I still like, and I still use the Fitbit app just for that. I wish that could integrate with Healthkit.

Sort of possible. FitBit -> My Fitness Pal -> HealthKit.

I loved my Fitbit Force (no app problems that i noticed on android), however it literally fell apart in 6 months, as in the rubber completely disconnected and i was left with 3 pieces of what was my fitbit.

I'm debating on getting a Charge with the recall money from the Force, though i'm hesitant because i don't believe this one will last me any longer than the last...

Can anyone from Fitbit attest for how hackable (or not) the Charge might be? I'd be very interested in picking one up if there's some way for me to push some custom information from my phone to the display (preferably without having to generate fake incoming call events).

Am I the only one that noticed that only the Charge lists the feature of it being water resistant? Does that mean the Charge HR and Surge can take a splash of water, or that you can't go running in the rain with them? If so this is a huge drawback.

It's not water resistant. It's band is.

From FTA

    A high-quality, water-resistant, comfortable new 
    textured wristband design with an improved clasp

Water resistant rubber/vinyl. What will the world invent next.

/sarcasm

Interesting for me, I get 404 for the bit.ly links for the new trackers.

Are they available only for US?

I liked my Flex, but when I upgraded to the Force I ended up with skin irritation that lasted for months. I was worried my wrist would never be the same again. I'll pass on anything Fitbit related now.

> PurePulse uses safe LED lights to detect blood volume changes right on the wrist to deliver heart rate monitoring 24/7.

Is there such a thing as an unsafe LED?

Maybe ones that put out UVA and UVB rays? Just a stab in the dark.

For me the most important thing is accuracy. If the values are estimates, any smartphone with an exercise tracking app does the same...

I have Galaxy 4s and Fitbit Flex. Their step tracker figures are close, withing +/- 2-3%.

I mainly bought it for sleep tracking, but then I realized you had to manually enter sleep / wake up times for you to see any graphs. I don't know why there can't be some default value that can be algorithmically adjusted, because most people tend to go to bed and wake up around the same time.

Misfit basically does that. I think their pebble app does that too, but I hear about bugs with data syncing.

The Pebble app/iOS app syncing used to be buggy as hell (retrying a few times might get it to sync). The updated iOS app seems to sync reliably now.

As for sleep tracking, as far as I can tell you have to push a button at bedtime. Don't care much about sleep tracking, so I haven't researched to see that my assessment is correct. Still, not a big deal to me when I do use it.

It made more sense a few years ago when phones didn't have the ability to do constant motion tracking with very little battery use.

I really don't want one that has to be a fashion statement.

I wish an upgraded version of the clip (with heart rate monitor) was available.

A heart rate monitor would have to be some kind of bracelet, unless you want to be wearing a chest strap all day, no?

An unobtrusive bracelet, paired with a a great app, that I could wear on my right wrist (watch on the left) would be ideal. I wouldn't mind an un-obnoxious vibrate option that lets me know I have a notification or that I need to wake up. At $49 that would be a day 1 buy for me.

Xiaomi Mi Band, It's 25 dollars and does exactly what you want it to do with a 30 days battery life.

The downside? Instead of only the American government tracking you, the Chinese government now also knows if you're out of shape!

Thanks! Almost exactly what I described. Appreciate the direction.

there isn't any way for a clip to measure your heart rate. previously you needed a strap around your chest with wet contacts. now you need a light sensor pressed against your wrist. but no one has done it with a clip on your clothes device

I had a nephew who got excited when he saw HR done on watches. We did some research into accuracy and were surprised to find that the light-based tech used in many devices does not give you accuracy when you are running or generally moving fast. No idea about the fitbit devices but I am vary.

I assumed (incorrectly) that you just needed skin contact measure an electrical pulse (like an EKG machine).

However, that appears not to be the case. Even the wrist based optical ones are often times inaccurate.

I continue to want a fitness monitor that's just a nice-looking watch strap, that I can put on my watch that I already like. I suppose that would be a pretty niche market, though.

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