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Comment by kenshi | Hacker News Reader

On a more serious note, I think its a good idea to hold outreach events for getting minorities working on your platform or industry. There arent many women in tech, trying to do something to increase the number is a good thing.

A man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event is laughable. The industry (and the culture of the industry) is so overwhelming male dominated. It's not like you are missing out on anything.

If events like these help get more women involved and participating in the industry or community, then more power to them. It certainly beats not doing anything to attract minorities.

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If events like these help get more women involved and participating in the industry or community, then more power to them. It certainly beats not doing anything to attract minorities.

A cynical person could say that we already have minorities (e.g. Indians) - we just don't have the popular ones (e.g. women).

That said, I agree about "a man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event". Sometimes we should just grow a pair and suck it up. This really isn't something worth getting worked up about.

You raise an interesting point about how there are minorities and there are Minorities. Are Indians a minority in the IT industry? That probably depends on where you are, and how you are taking count.

When I used the word minority, I meant it purely in a numerical sense. If I was a participant in a female dominated industry, I'd say holding outreach events to attract more men would be a good idea too.

Um, women aren't missing out on anything either. They are just as free to attend the same industry events as men.

Yeah, but I mean, if I took up a sudden interest in crocheting or something and the best way to get connected and start learning was to go to a crocheting convention that's 99% female, I'd feel a little awkward/discouraged.

" ... I'd feel a little awkward/discouraged."

Why? Seriously.

Because you're a dude? Have you been to mostly-women gatherings before?

I believe that if people go to an event expecting to be treated as an outsider, they will behave in a way that will discourage people from welcoming them.

It's true that some number of guys have treated some women as lesser beings at tech conferences, but it's also true that some number of guys have treated other guys as lesser beings at tech conferences. Geeks are competitive and cliquish. It may be that way with people into crocheting, too; I would almost expect it. But my experience has been that most people are pretty accepting if you show some persistence and genuine interest.

I'm sure it is, and I would probably be fine. It's still intimidating stepping into unknown territory like that.

Oh. I'm sure. I've felt it myself, and still do at some events where I feel like a noob.

What I don't see mentioned much in the discussion of women and tech gatherings is that a whole lot of guys feel awkward and unwelcome when attending tech events.

That doesn't necessarily mean there's no misogyny, but it suggests that the feeling of unease people feel is not (always) because of sex, but because some groups just are not so welcoming of outsiders until the outsider demonstrates some chops or other sign of "belonging".

Yup, they're as free to attend the same industry events as anyone else. The same way girls are just as free as the boys to play football, the same way men are just as free to be interested in ballet or (to borrow an example from above) crocheting as women.

How many times have you skidded away from attending an event (professional, social, whatever) because you didn't know anyone there? How many more would you have avoided if you knew everyone there was Not Like You, in some fundamental, if suck-it-up-able, way?

I'm still on the fence in terms of whether minorities (numerically in this industry) deserve 'special treatment' - but if members of a minority choose to reach out to each other (networking events, dinners, scholarships), who are we to criticize?

Is girls playing football really the example you want to use? FYI, girls don't play football because most girls are too weak and slow to play (for biological reasons). Regarding ballet, men are actively encouraged to join ballet due to the fact that ballet (unlike coding) has explicit male/female roles and a shortage of men willing to fill those roles.

In any case, I'm not criticizing, just pointing out a bad argument. They can have their little Ruby on Rails "you go girl" event, I have no desire to go. Although I've never attended such an event, I'm told they suck; {Good AND girl} is a much smaller set than simply {good}.

Much smaller, eh? Not, say, 50% smaller, even though they're selecting out non-developers by being a Rails workshop?

If 90% of RoR coders are men, I'd expect the set {good AND girl} to be about 90% smaller than the set {good}.

But suppose you are right. Simple thought experiment: take a workshop, and throw away half the good people. Is the workshop just as good as before?

Depends on how crowded the workshop was. Small is good. The crypto class we're giving in Chicago in a couple weeks was deliberately limited to 20 people.

If by throwing away half the prospectives, the remaining half can learn faster or more comfortably, then I'd go with "better", not "just as good".

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