Is There An Artificial God?
biota.org
biota.org
Now that was a very, very silly, but fascinating, story and what it said to me was that this was the first time that we could reach back into the world. #
That's the kind of thoughtful insight that just doesn't occur to many.
DA's fiction is good, but not particularly special. His style's a bit amateur. On the other hand, his nonfiction from Salmon of Doubt is surprisingly excellent.
"But the fourth, the many-to-many, we didn't have at all before the coming of the Internet, which, of course, runs on fibre-optics. It's communication between us that forms the fourth age of sand. Take what I said earlier about the world not reacting to us when we react to it; I remember the first moment, a few years ago, at which I began to take the Internet seriously. It was a very, very silly thing. There was a guy, a computer research student at Carnegie Mellon, who liked to drink Dr Pepper Light. There was a drinks machine a couple of storeys away from him, where he used to regularly go and get his Dr Pepper, but the machine was often out of stock, so he had quite a few wasted journeys. Eventually he figured out, 'Hang on, there's a chip in there and I'm on a computer and there's a network running around the building, so why don't I just put the drinks machine on the network, then I can poll it from my terminal whenever I want and tell if I'm going to have a wasted journey or not?' So he connected the machine to the local network, but the local net was part of the Internet - so suddenly anyone in the world could see what was happening with this drinks machine. Now that may not be vital information but it turned out to be curiously fascinating; everyone started to know what was happening with the drinks machine. It began to develop, because in the chip in the machine didn't just say, 'The slot which has Dr Pepper Light is empty' but had all sorts of information; it said, 'There are 7 Cokes and 3 Diet Cokes, the temperature they are stored at is this and the last time they were loaded was that'. There was a lot of information in there, and there was one really fabulous piece of information: it turned out that if someone had put their 50 cents in and not pressed the button, i.e. if the machine was pregnant, then you could, from your computer terminal wherever you were in the world, log on to the drinks machine and drop that can! Somebody could be walking down the corridor when suddenly, 'bang!' - there was a Coca-Cola can! What caused that? - well obviously somebody 5,000 miles away! Now that was a very, very silly, but fascinating, story and what it said to me was that this was the first time that we could reach back into the world. It may not be terribly important that from 5,000 miles away you can reach into a University corridor and drop a Coca-Cola can but it's the first shot in the war of bringing to us a whole new way of communicating. So that, I think, is the fourth age of sand. "
God != ReligionI'm looking forward to giving this a thorough read, I always loved DA and his method of communicating some deeply philosophical and scientific ideas with the right amount of scepticism and curiosity to make something uniquely human of it. As Boris Pasternak would say, DA incorporates his knowledge in Myth - a master storyteller.
In what way is it irrational? I think the author conflates apparent lack of support with irrationality - the reason one shouldn't do the switch is that it is a type of work, it requires effort that would otherwise not be expended, Jewish scripture does not allow work on Saturdays, Rabbi's confirm that this is work. Rabbi's are inspired by God, God created us and inspired scripture and knows what is best.
Now we can pick all sorts of holes in that argument on lack of support. But it is a rational argument, it applies known (to the subject) facts in a logical manner to determine the true course to take.
You might argue that the premises are wrong, fine, but that doesn't stop the reasoning from being logical - if I tell you I'm wearing a green hat, then I ask you what colour of hat I'm wearing, you say green; but I'm not wearing a hat, that doesn't make you irrational it just makes you wrong.
The question of whether God exists is not a scientific question, so a better premise to attack would be that Rabbi's are inspired by God. "Rabbi's provide bad advice" might be a good first hypothesis - eventually we see that Rabbi's usually provide good advice, should we take that advice? Seems logical (within this limited discourse). Now that doesn't prove the premise we held true initially but it gives limited support to it and is of itself a good reason for listening to Rabbi's.
So, then we might consider why we are protective of the Jews belief that they shouldn't switch the light on Saturday. Well do we have scientific data which somehow shows his premises to be wrong? Financial data is relatively simple - did the pundits shares go up, etc.? I warrant that the reason we protect beliefs that we ourselves consider wrong (or in the authors case irrational (which I think is wrong!)) is because we don't have clear data. We belive they are wrong but can't readily show they are objectively wrong.
If one could flip to a "metaphysical indicators" page of the newspaper (! assuming we know its true) and look up "God: God is impersonal and does not require one to abide by any specific framework of laws except the Golden Rule" then we'd have a certain fact that we could rely on to demonstrate the falsehood of this Jews position.
The fact that it relies on an absurd belief.
Rabbi's are inspired by God, God created us and inspired scripture and knows what is best.
Yeah. That's the irrational part.
But it is a rational argument, it applies known (to the subject) facts in a logical manner to determine the true course to take.
"God told us to" isn't logic unless God is first proven.
The question of whether God exists is not a scientific question
Yes it is. If God exists, there should be a proof for it. If there is no proof, then there is no God.
"Rabbi's provide bad advice" might be a good first hypothesis - eventually we see that Rabbi's usually provide good advice, should we take that advice? Seems logical (within this limited discourse).
That's a non sequitur. If a rabbi (not a proper noun, by the way) provides good advice, that proves that the rabbi as a human being is wise regarding certain things. I can give terrific personal advice and still not be good at playing the stock market.
Well do we have scientific data which somehow shows his premises to be wrong?
You're invoking Sagan's dragon. The burden of proof is on you, not on reality. Until you prove it right, you are wrong and have no argument to make.
We belive they are wrong but can't readily show they are objectively wrong.
But we can.
Not really. This, for example, is a perfectly logical argument:
All burritos are Platonists.
Batman is a burrito.
Therefore, Batman is a Platonist.
It does not require either of the premises to be proven (or even true, or even semantically meaningful) to be rational.To be reasonable, on the other hand, is a much fuzzier concept.
You're invoking Sagan's dragon. The burden of proof is on you, not on reality. Until you prove it right, you are wrong and have no argument to make.
"Burden of proof" has no real connection to rationality as such (beyond determining whether the logic itself is valid). It is fundamental to the scientific method, but that's another thing altogether.
The argument isn't logical so much as it is valid. It isn't sound, based on the untrue premises, but it preserves the truth of the premises.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundness
Occam's razor provides a reasonable metric for burden of proof. Any position that requires Saturday to have a special property that affects light switches is obviously more complicated than the null hypothesis that light switches are agnostic with respect to the day of the week. The valid arguments in favor of a special Saturday are not terribly satisfiable (in a technical sense), and are thus unfavored.
Occam's Razor is unsound. The truth is not necessarily simple.
There is no proof (none possible by Godels incompleteness theorem) that our system of arithmetic is complete and consistent - indeed the first incompleteness theorem says that there is a truth in the system which is unprovable. So, yeah we can't use arithmetic, no proof see.
Things in reality are not wrong if you don't have a proof. Some things are true for which no proof [currently] exists.
"pbhjpbhj is not thinking of an orange", true? Well I have no proof and so you determine that it is objectively false. Presumably you see the absurdity in that?
[Aside: i was never taught grammar at school and so have picked it up piecemeal, can you direct me how Rabbi is not a proper noun. It is a class of people, for sure, but is also used as a specific name for a single person (in common parlance at least); also how I then misused it, thanks]
The thrust of the speech is about the idea that some of the crazy notions humans come up with might have sound basis in facts we are only subconsciously aware of (he has a couple of excellent examples).
The point being that we should be careful to dismiss it as unscientific bunk without at least bearing it in mind in the future :)