Hacker News Reader

Comment by boxcardavin | Hacker News Reader

I'm most impressed that they can manufacture 15 million pixels on a single panel without a single dead pixel. They must be wasting/repurposing a ton of panel square footage when cutting.

View on HN

What makes you think they don't have dead pixels? Hasn't Apple had a policy of not replacing panels with dead pixels unless they fell in Class III or Class IV of ISO 13406-2? (http://www.tested.com/tech/1337-we-uncover-the-dead-pixel-po...)

So you mean people buy a Mac that has dead pixels and Apple tells them to go to hell? They have a no-questions asked 16 days to return it or a bit longer than that, but I don't think they'd question a return on a already broken one. You're thinking of people trying to get a warranty repair after a long time of usage. The OP was referring to the fact that when you produce LCD displays you have limitations on panel size because you get defects ever so often so you have to throw away some produced panels because of them.

I know it's hard to swallow, but it becomes less and less a problem the higher resolution the screen and the smaller the pixel.

I have one on my 15" rMBP, and I do not notice it unless I put my face within 6" of the screen.

I hope you have seen the below from jcheng: I literally just came from my local Apple Store where I got my Retina MBP serviced for two clusters of hot pixels. The Genius had to look up the policy to see if it was covered, and came back saying that Retina MBP screens will be replaced for even a single defective pixel. We were both surprised.

Wow. That is excellent to know. I'll give it a shot!

Right - but I'm questioning whether Apple (or any monitor vendor) would throw away a panel that was ISO 13406-2 Class I levels. I.E. a few dead pixels, depending on their nature, and where they are, don't mean you throw away a panel.

Perhaps what happens is they just get resold as Non-Apple Displays. So, the no dead pixel displays go into the premium Apple monitors, but the Class I devices get resold in the white-label market. (This is where you see these great deals on eBay).

Would you actually notice a single dead subpixel though at that resolution?

When looking closely and displaying a solid color, probably. In practice, maybe not.

Once you notice where a dead subpixel is though, your eye goes straight to it every time it's visible.

That's true on conventional panels, but the whole point of retina is that the pixels individually are smaller than the human eye can resolve. I'd be interested to see in practice. I suppose it depends how far your eye needs to be from the screen for it you count as retina in that way.

The inability to discern an individual pixel with the same color as its neighbors doesn't mean that the same pixel with a vastly different collor won't be seen. A single bright green pixel in a white window will still be visible, even if the edges of the pixel itself can't be seen otherwise.

There are 14.7 million pixels on the iMac's screen. The definition of a retina display is you can't discern individual pixels at normal viewing distances, so unless you're sitting with your nose against the screen or are using a loupe, you won't be able to see a single dead pixel.

>The definition of a retina display is you can't discern individual pixels at normal viewing distances

I wonder if this is actually true, the whole "more pixels than photosensitive cells" thing sounds a bit shaky.

Yeah, it's nonsense. There are 90-120 million rods and 5-7 million cones in the human retina.

For one it was never about "more pixels than photosensitive cells".

Second, the number of rods and cones has nothing to do with it.

The "retina" argument was about having smaller than discernible angular pixel sizes, which is true for the majority of people and normal viewing distances.

Put a pattern up. 1 pixel by 1 pixel, white, black, white. You'll see just fine. It won't be "grey".

> The definition of a retina display is you can't discern individual pixels at normal viewing distances, so unless you're sitting with your nose against the screen or are using a loupe, you won't be able to see a single dead pixel.

Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

Just because we can't identify individual pixels does not mean a single pixel has no influence. It shapes the overall picture.

If a single dead pixel is not visible at all, why have that pixel there in the first place -- working or not?

I just tested with my iPhone 6 (a 1334x750 px white picture with a single black pixel in the middle of the picture), and the single black pixel is definitely visible. A screenshot of the iPhone showing the picture in question confirms it's a single pixel on the screen.

It's not dead pixels that you notice; I have a hot pixel on my Retina MBP, and it's very noticeable. But Apple doesn't warranty a single hot/dead pixel.

I literally just came from my local Apple Store where I got my Retina MBP serviced for two clusters of hot pixels. The Genius had to look up the policy to see if it was covered, and came back saying that Retina MBP screens will be replaced for even a single defective pixel. We were both surprised.

If you can get to the panel itself hot pixels can often be massaged out. really.

Oooh, I might have to look into that, thanks. I have 3 or 4 and am still within AppleCare time :-)

Where are you? Apple's warranty policies often vary from region-to-region.

I had an issue with a single dead pixel on a 3 month of rMBP earlier this year and Apple replaced it (the whole machine!) without any fuss. The Apple tech guy said (and this is pretty much the exact quote) "the rMBP is all about the screen, a dead pixel is not acceptable". Say what you will about Apple but their support is the best I have ever experienced. If I were you I would book an appointment at an Apple Store and get it fixed. I doubt you will have any problems. Backup everything first and be prepared to do a wipe and get a new machine if that isn't too inconvenient.

As others have said Apple will absolutely replace the screen for any dead pixels. I had mine first crappy LG screen replaced because of two dead pixels and they told me they'd do it if it was only one.

Yes. My rMBP had a dead pixel that stuck out like a sore thumb to me. Whenever you have a solid color on the screen you notice it.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com