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Comment by sah88 | Hacker News Reader

First you have to void your warranty to properly dual boot now this? They want to drop support for a file format so they can make renaming drives easier?

I'm actually in the market for a new laptop/netbook. I was very close to purchasing a ChromeOS device as I work primarily on a desktop and have a laptop for travel but its pretty old, heavy and battery unfriendly. Then I found out I had to void the warranty to properly dual boot.

Seems like a giant fuck you to the Linux community given how much Google has benefited from Linux(ChromeOS even runs on the Linux kernel) and they put out laptops that are more locked down than your average windows laptops? Pretty disappointing.

I am assuming the write protect screws are there at the behest of Google.

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It makes sense if you think of what the purpose of Chrome OS is. The point is not to make inexpensive hardware to run any OS on. The point is not to create a new general-purpose open OS that people can build on. The point is to get people to put there stuff in the Google Cloud to become bigger Google customers. Period.

That's why they make it difficult to dual boot and allow all your files to be wiped with a single key. That's also why anything you do on the Chromebook before you login to Google for the first time isn't saved. The point is to make everything on the laptop appear impermanent and to get you to think of the cloud as the place your digital stuff is actually stored.

The issue at hand isn't the purpose, it never was. It is how it limits the purpose of the user, even after Google benefited greatly from said users (everyone who uses open source software contributes to it, small or large; using, coding, documenting etc). "Hi! Mind helping us for a bit? Thanks for helping us. Now, how about you stop doing that stuff that is useful to you and start doing some stuff that is useful to us?" Not a very good narrative.

If you don't want a laptop that does what the Chromebook is designed to do, then don't buy a Chromebook. What's the big deal?

I doubt the parent will, for the very reasons s/he expressed. Should we not discuss things we don't like?

I'm actually wondering why would people spend money on a chromebook - the hardware is crap and the price isn't that great. If I was looking for a cheap portable web browsing device I'd get something like : http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975w-quad-core-win-8-tablet... - that's a 10 inch Windows 8.1 tablet with 2048*1536 resolution, quad core atom and 2 GB ram for 220$. Throw in 20$ and you can find a USB case with keyboard.

Portable, better performance, better screen, can be used as a "internet machine" with Win 8.

But is it locked to Win 8? Can you easily install ubuntu on it, or is all the hardware drivers closed source?

No, it's not locked. But you can't install Ubuntu there (at least not easily). Google for "32-bit UEFI" if you need any more details about the sorry state of affairs with booting Linux on latest crop of Atom Bay Trail hardware. The only out-of-the-box working distro for it is "fedlet" - some obscure fedora 21-alpha fork.

>Google for "32-bit UEFI" if you need any more details about the sorry state of affairs with booting Linux on latest crop of Atom Bay Trail hardware.

There is at least one product with a Bay Trail CPU in it that runs Linux: http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=19836.

Unlike most Atom CPUs, the graphics driver for Linux on Bay Trail CPUs is completely open (like it is on Intel Core CPUs), which I guess makes it doubly sad that some manufacturers of products with Bay Trail CPUs in them are screwing up with the boot loader.

If you think that tablet is going to have the build quality of a Chromebook then you've obviously never spent much time with cheap iPad knockoffs before.

I recently bought a Chromebook and I love it. I am a college student - and I have a powerful desktop machine, but wanted something I could take to classes. I could have bought a low powered laptop, but I didn't need all the features of Windows 8. The Chromebook is perfect for me, as it starts up within about 3 seconds, and does everything I need to it do quickly. I even have Crouton on it, meaning I can switch to a debian installation with a keyboard shortcut. Every now and then, if I want to run a steam game, for example, I use this. But even without that ability, it's nice to have a device that 'Just Works'.

> I'm actually wondering why would people spend money on a chromebook - the hardware is crap and the price isn't that great.

Battery life. Most Chromebooks get good to great battery life and in my opinion good battery life is a requirement on any laptop; no matter how cheap.

My experience with low-end Windows laptops is that the battery life is usually atrocious. 2-3 hours on my last one. If I want to be plugged in all the time I'll buy a desktop.

>I'm actually in the market for a new laptop/netbook. I was very close to purchasing a ChromeOS device as I work primarily on a desktop and have a laptop for travel but its pretty old, heavy and battery unfriendly. Then I found out I had to void the warranty to properly dual boot.

I assume you mean having to wait or hit Ctrl-D and manually start a shell?

Personally, in some ways I prefer it that way. I have two Chromebooks, and mostly use Crouton, but I've restored them back to factory state with a single keystroke several times, and it makes me confident that I can easily revert after messing with the OS.

EDIT:

That's pretty unfair, Google contributes upstream for both ChromeOS and Android, and from the start they allowed an easily accessible developer mode, while prioritizing the security and simplicity for normal consumers.

My opinion was primarily based on this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/207wlm/is_it_possi...

I can't think of one good reason why a SINGLE keypress at boot can wipe everything and revert to factory settings. Moreover it isn't even password protected.

If you don't reflash the bios and you are dual booting ANYONE can walk over, turn your computer on, press space, and tada your computer is wiped.

This is the screen: http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 I'd be willing to bet the majority of people would press space faced with that, especially after 15-20s of it sitting there doing nothing. (it sits at that screen for 30s unless you hit Ctrl-D)

The only reason I can think of that anyone would implement something so inane would be to discourage people from dual booting.

edit: I don't disagree that Google has contributed a lot to the Linux community. Overall I'm a pretty big fan of Google and I use a lot of their products. That said I still think their approach to ChromeOS has been very unfriendly towards Linux users. (they're bad vs. what they did was bad)

The only reason I can think of that anyone would implement something so inane would be to discourage people from dual booting.

Or, as an example, to make sure that you won't "mod" your Grandma's computer and silently break auto-updates or cause performance issues without her knowing. The screen is clearly designed for non power-users, and Google wants it to look as scary as possible to dissuade consumers who are just following a tutorial online, or something.

EDIT: I'm surprised this is controversial. It's one of the express reasons for verified boot warnings.

My 14 year old daughter runs chromeOS and xubuntu on her Chromebook and she takes it to school and she has never had a problem with it being wiped. She is, however, aware that files stored on that machine internally could be lost and she takes precaution.

I bought our first HP Chromebook 14 as refurb off and love it so much I bought a second one. They are both in constant use in our household. My wife even prefers to use hers over her desktop.

The Linux partition and all the data will also be wiped if the battery runs out while the Chromebook is in sleep mode.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8261156

https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/4nkSEmGo...

That may be true for the Pixel (I don't have one). But I've drained the battery on both my Chromebooks (HP 14 and c720) a number of times, and have never lost data on the stateful partition. I have replaced the SSD on both of them, however, so it could be hardware specific.

Not exactly true, see https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/deve...

I was actually the guinea pig for that fix: https://plus.google.com/100479847213284361344/posts/9FaVBgxP... .

One word: Schools.

The devices have to be reset each year. Administration of thousands of laptops across an entire district is easier with Chromebooks than with any other device. The angst many posters are expressing is possibly alleviated by Elementary OS.

How exactly does dual booting void your warranty?

To properly dual boot without having this screen:

http://imgur.com/wMtvgX3 (renabling wipes the hard drive)

You have to remove a screw that voids the warranty and reflash the bios. That said, there could be some devices that don't have a write protect screw but every laptop I looked at had one.

Original Samsung ARM chromebook doesn't have any write protect screw, this is a device about which I have zero complaints so far. (I've owned it for only a few weeks so far.)

I wish it came with a newer kernel, but all for reasons that "you can compile your own kernel" are really a valid response.

This depends on which Chromebook you have.

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