Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference | Hacker News Reader

Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

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101 pointsminimaxir81 comments

It's in Satya's interest for employees not to demand raises. Goes for men too. I bet he tells employees not to share salaries either. All it does is breed discontent when you find out how much more your peers make. Instead, you should work super hard and hope the salary fairy will recognize your contributions!

Everyone in a company should go interview every year or two and figure out how much $ you're worth. If you're underpaid, you'll be in a great position to either get a raise or hop jobs.

Of course assholes like Mark Suster will tell you not to hop jobs -- you might get paid what you're worth! Instead, you should stay at startups, be underpaid, and bust your ass. Especially if Mark invested. Don't listen.

When has Mark Suster said that?

I think he means http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2010/04/22/never-hire-job....

Ugh, the post you linked is baffling. "You’re in it more for yourself than your company." Obviously! It's called rational self-interest. It's the company's responsibility to treat their employees well enough that it's in their best interest to work there. If you've spent a lifetime honing your skills, why would you want to work for someone who doesn't understand this or doesn't care?

I like much of Mark Suster's writing, but I agree with you on this point wholeheartedly. Not all companies are built the same. There are lots of unhappy people pissing their life way doing shit they don't like - I don't intend on being one of them.

It's also in his interest not to appear to be an aloof non-ally of women in tech.

I think it's impressive, and somewhat refreshing to see someone so plainly admit "Sorry, I fucked up, I was wrong. I know better now." I was expecting more bullshitty-tasting PR-written damage control.

In fairness, this technique is very normal, just perhaps not in recent years. http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Shiga-SFBay.htm

I think that's the point. Apologizing sincerely seems to be a forgotten art.

but he didn't. he said he answered the question wrong, not that the answer was wrong. You could argue about semantics, but it's clear at a very superficial level to everyone that he answered the question wrong - wrong forum, wrong wording - but that says nothing about how correct the answer is.

Like for a personal parallel, it would probably be wrong to announce to a friend that you thought they were ugly, no matter how correct you were.

The sincere apology would have been to announce that his answer was incorrect - otherwise he is just trying to pacify the mob, if that makes sense. Perhaps I'm being a little pedantic, but this email has clearly been proofread by a number of people, and the key statement is definitely not as clear-cut as this HN thread seems to be deciding (it's a very clear-cut non-statement).

Edit: Criticism definitely fair, I jumped to conclusions.

In the UK, people would typically say "I answered the question wrong" and consider it synonymous with "The answer I gave was wrong". Many Indians (that I know personally at least) seem to copy UK speech patterns more than US ones.

I think you are reading more into this than is really there.

Not to be annoying, but I wish you wouldn't say 'copy'. It makes it sound like an affectation. India only recently gained independence and Indian English is strongly influenced by the way it was spoken in the UK at the time.

I'm sure you didn't mean anything by your choice of words but perhaps using "influenced by" or "derives from" would be better.

>And when it comes to career advice on getting a raise when you think it’s deserved, Maria’s advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask.

Sounds like an unambiguous repudiation of his previous answer to me.

EDIT: Just noticed geetee made the same comment. Didn't mean to steal it.

I think you're being unfair. If he said only that, then maybe you could claim that he was hiding that he truly believes women shouldn't ask for raises. However, he clarified and said "Maria's advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask."

The juxtaposition of this 'right advice' with the previous 'wrong answer' should indicate to you his current position on the matter. Speech is a lossy serialization of thought. It depends on our reconstructing context.

He says he gave the "wrong" answer to the question, not that the answer he gave was wrong. It was very revealing about what he thinks about paying his employees, especially about not trusting those that ask for raises.

Without a doubt I wholeheartedly support programs at Microsoft and in the industry that bring more women into technology and close the pay gap. I believe men and women should get equal pay for equal work. And when it comes to career advice on getting a raise when you think it’s deserved, Maria’s advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask.

What more do you want?

Contrast that with what he actually said at the event:

That might be one of the additional superpowers that women who don't ask for a raise have. It's good karma, it'll come back, because somebody's going to know "That's the kind of person that I want to trust. That's the kind of person that I want to really give more responsibility to."

You were nitpicking what he said in his email. You took one sentence to satisfy your need for pedantry and completely ignored what he said after (which disproves your take on the matter.) What does his statement at the event have to do with that?

Well, that last bit is not at all what he intended to say and that people may get your interpretation out of it is exactly why it is a wrong answer: it's an answer likely to be wrongly understood.

You have to wonder why he mentions 'karma' in the first place. And the best explanation for mentioning it is that he truly believes that those who give trust will receive trust.

Note that this does not imply the converse: it doesn't mean people who do not give trust are not to be trusted. It's just his personal belief that it's good to trust 'the (people in the) system' and the problem is that his personal belief does entirely align with the message he wants to get across, at least not in the eyes of people who do not believe in karma.

Full text below for those who have difficulty accessing the site:

All – Today I was interviewed on stage by Maria Klawe at the Grace Hopper Conference – I encourage you to watch the video. It was great to spend time with so many women passionate about technology. I was honored to be a part of it and I left the conference energized and inspired.

Toward the end of the interview, Maria asked me what advice I would offer women who are not comfortable asking for pay raises. I answered that question completely wrong. Without a doubt I wholeheartedly support programs at Microsoft and in the industry that bring more women into technology and close the pay gap. I believe men and women should get equal pay for equal work. And when it comes to career advice on getting a raise when you think it’s deserved, Maria’s advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask.

I said I was looking forward to the Grace Hopper Conference to learn, and I certainly learned a valuable lesson. I look forward to speaking with you at our monthly Q&A next week and am happy to answer any question you have.

Satya

For context, here was Satya's first answer:

> "It's not really about asking for the raise, but knowing, and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises, as you go along. And that, I think, might be one of the additional super powers, that quite frankly, women who don't ask for a raise have. Because that's good karma, it'll come back! Because somebody's going to know, 'That's the kind of person, that I want trust.'"

I hope every woman at Microsoft asks for a raise tomorrow.

I know the question was posed at a conference about women in technology, but I think a good answer to the question of how to ask for a raise goes beyond narrowing the pay gap between women and men. There are plenty of men, myself included, that also feel like we're not getting what we're worth and what our colleagues are getting, but don't have the knowledge how or courage to confront our manager and ask for a raise. Perhaps women are more predominately or more severely affected by this issue, but there's more to it than the men/women pay gap.

I liked Maria Klawe's answer a lot more, it provides some really useful advice beyond "if you think you're being payed less than your male peers, ask for a raise".

If I may put a bit of a cultural spin on this, his comment sort of reflects the culture in India, where a vast majority of people do not feel comfortable simply asking for a raise. Most people (men and women) essentially follow the strategy that Nadella suggested, to work harder and believe that you will be rewarded for it eventually. I'm not in any way suggesting that this is an effective strategy (especially for women), but it might explain his comment somewhat. Great apology, though.

He has been in the US since college, for longer than some of his employees have been alive. I don't think that's a good excuse.

I'm inclined to agree with the GP. Attitudes about money, negotiation and status are formed early in life and while you can outgrow them it's difficult to shake them off entirely.

I've been in the US nearly half my life (from Ireland originally) but I can't see myself getting used to that aspect of American business culture. My instinctive view is that if I'm you're employee and you're happy with my performance, it's your job to put your money where your mouth is, not mine to come to you asking for more. My compromise approach these days is that when someone solicits my help I ask them how much they've budgeted for the work they want done/ If the answer is not a positive sum, then I ask them what area they're willing to accept and equivalent loss of productivity.

Video of the interview: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/10060267/events/3447060

The question about women asking for raises happens around 01:34:04.

As a person who can't currently view videos where I am, what was the controversial statement that Satya made?

In short: Satya indicated that women shouldn't ask for raises and let it all work out in the long term.

A mashable article on the topic: http://mashable.com/2014/10/09/microsoft-ceo-women-karma-rai...

> what was the controversial statement that Satya made

"It's not really about asking for the raise, but knowing, and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises, as you go along. And that, I think, might be one of the additional super powers, that quite frankly, women who don't ask for a raise have. Because that's good karma, it'll come back! Because somebody's going to know, 'That's the kind of person, that I want trust.'"

He's assigning good karma to a lack of assertiveness in women.

No, he's assigning good karma to everyone that places trust in colleagues, managers and 'the system'. Which may seem naive and even incomprehensible, but that does not preclude that he actually believes it and that his belief system is something that is as worthy as any of ours.

His answer was painful to watch. That was not a good answer, even naive given how she asked the question. Not asking for a raise is a superpower when so many women are experiencing a pay gap that is attributed, in part, to not asking for raises? What rational logic leads to such a claim? It's good that he apologized though, maybe he gave it some thought and it isn't just a PR move.

It was even more painful live, in a room of 8000 women. Ouch.

You know, sometimes these things are taken out of context but that's not the case here. That was horrible advice. The interviewer's answer was 100x better and more practical.

Oh god. The way he delivered it was even worse than reading it on all the news articles. He just said it with this tone of utter wisdom.

When she's giving her answer you can tell by his body language that he very quickly realized how the rest of his day would pan out.

As a female in tech, this is disheartening because it discourages men to advocate or talk openly for gender equality. How awful is it that we just shamed him publicly so instantly? I hope men aren't discouraged by this. Guy needs a bear hug.

The takeaway I got from this article is that some women in tech find the very idea of male allies condescending: http://readwrite.com/2014/10/09/technology-sexism-male-allie...

What do you think?

jcheng - The problem of gender equality cannot be solved by women alone if that's what the author is insinuating. Of course men can't truly empathize, they aren't women. It's about awareness. Most senior board positions in the corporate world are held by men - they don't think it's a problem at all and the thought doesn't cross their mind. Not all of them need to "get it right" right away but getting them to talk is a good next step. My school recently did a student body survey on this topic: 34% of my male colleagues think American companies have policies in place to help men & women succeed vs 17%(!) women. http://whartonjournal.com/2014/09/29/wharton-women-in-busine...

"Most senior board positions in the corporate world are held by men"

Why focus on gender? I think every board should have first-generation immigrants, people of different faiths, different races and genders and most importantly no more than 50% should come from rich backgrounds and prestigious universities.

I agree, it seemed like he was driving at the idea that we shouldn't dismiss the way women were acting as wrong, but instead try to see the advantages of their approach. Even though he didn't say it like this, I imagine his thought process was that being overly aggressive in negotiations creates ill-will and hurts you in the long run. Maybe there are men out there who constantly ask for raises and would be better off if they didn't.

>I hope men aren't discouraged by this.

90% of men are simply trying to avoid the entire issue as much as possible, because stuff like this happens all the time.

The 502 error "Invalid response" that the server returns right now is ironically spot on.

Refreshing to see Satya clearly state "I answered that question completely wrong."

No weasel words there...as opposed to so many other non-apology apologies.

>Maria asked me what advice I would offer women who are not comfortable asking for pay raises

>If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask.

Great Advice. A+. His original answer probably answered the question better. The answer he gave for the question he was asked was very appropriate. The "Do it anyways" response that was given by Maria doesn't answer the question, it avoids the topic all together and doesn't help the person for whom its an actual problem.

I'm not saying that merely asking for raises will close the wage gap, but since when did "if you're uncomfortable doing something you should be comfortable doing, you need to force yourself to start doing it" become bad advice?

Maria gave some useful advice: she said to role-play a negotiation. Satya said, "you are getting paid enough, don't worry about it", which isn't true for most women and isn't true for most men either. (But may be more true for some men, men who already figured out how to ask for a raise.)

I see signs of a great CEO here. Owning up for mistakes is not easy!

Not really. When you say something that stupid, you have no option but to backtrack. Imagine if he answered one of the questions with the assertion that "black people must die". Do you think we would have had much of an option there?

You obviously have not seen many press releases before. PR teams excel at putting a positive spin on even the worst blunders.

What a rude and callous example you have invented and pushed onto this page.

If only the press and twitter got as worked up about the multi year wage fixing lawsuit that may or may not go to trial rather than these little gaffes and gotcha moments

It's sad how every outlet is putting in its headline some form of: "Satya Nadella to Women: Don't Ask for a Raise".

But "don't ask for a raise" weren't his words. His actual words were subtly different, and more along the lines that it can be OK not to ask for a raise – you shouldn't have to ask for a raise – when a compensation system is working right. It was sort of a "don't feel too bad" reassurance to women who are not comfortable pushing for raises.

The main problem with his answer was that it was sufficiently unclear as to allow for the "don't ask for raises" misinterpretation... and lots of people rush to the worst, rather than best, interpretations.

Who can report subtleties when there's revenue-goosing rage-hits to attract?

I think you are doing a good thing by pointing out his exact words. You are right that subtle differences matter. However, Nadella was still incredibly tone-deaf here...and this wasn't the first time. He's been doing this over and over.

And in this case, the compensation system is NOT working right, and he certainly knows that, and the question was clearly asked in that context...the context of what we should do about a failed system which is unequal and unfair.

On the topic of getting a raise, i wholeheartedly agree with this blog post:

https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140908150126-7...

TL;DR: The best way to ask for a raise, is to ask your manager/superior "What do I need to do to get a raise?"

Asking what you need to do to receive a raise does the following:

- Maturely suggests that you want one without putting your supervisor on the spot

- Communicates that you are willing to do what is needed to receive one

- Generates clear goals for you to work towards

- Exposes areas where your boss thinks you need to improve

- Foreshadows whether you should be looking for a new job

The question remains: did he merely misspeak, or is he actually that disconnected from what it's like to have a job?

It's good to see a clear and quick retraction, but jeez -- did the words really reflect a thought he had in his head?

Exactly. "I answered that question wrong" to me read like "I should have been more politically correct with my wording", it doesn't change the fact that in his head he actually thinks employees should shut up and work hard hoping that good things will happen to them.

And ignores that -- if you believe minimsft, and there's little reason not too -- microsoft is an extremely political company.

Definition of gaffe -- saying what you really think.

I'm surprised that people are surprised. I'm male and I've heard variations of "you shouldn't ask for a raise/bigger salary" many times from my managers or hiring managers (when looking for a job).

For example: "you shouldn't be focusing on money, just do great work and the financial rewards will come [someday]". Or "we are looking for people who have passion for $whatever_our_company_does, not people who are primarily interested in higher compensation".

Yeah, I've heard that, too.

Fuck those guys. I remember Steven Yegge said "every time someone has tried to make me happy with money they've succeeded, usually on the first try."

Did he really rise to being CEO of Microsoft by believing the bs he said? If he did, he has to be one of the most fortunate people on the planet. Male or not.

Come on people, have a little class consciousness. Don't expect upper management to give you good career advice.

Exactly, he is thinking as CEO here and the last thing they want is everyone asking for a raise every 6-12 months. He was also led into it a bit when asked about why women haven't asked for a raise that are successful.

I think he should have said when I think the best time to ask for a raise is, just after a major delivery or few. After proving substantive worth via projects/ship is the best time to ask for an uptick. It is more about the timing than anything. I think he was trying to say it this way but failed.

If he has never asked for a raise in all his career, such a thought process would not be out of place. Granted saying this in a women specific forum will not go well, but his later tweet, that we need to close the gap is precisely what needs to be done. Regarding employees in general having to ask for raises, i cannot say much, as in my job career of over 30 years, never had to ask for one. I thought I was fairly compensated - maybe i was too happy in my job :-( but life has not been bad.

I was there and it was interesting to see the crowd react to his comment. The dynamic shifted shortly after he made the comment, then the crowd cheered when he was presented with the correct response. I just think the backlash is crazy and there are certainly a group of people that are focused on making noise and not progress

I suspect he gave his standard advice about raises without considering the circumstances or that it wouldn't work equally well for men and women. That's not an excuse, but a reminder that sexism doesn't have to be deliberate to be sexism.

On the positive side, he did apologize without the typical spin or qualification.

This is so sad. Why not say this:

"I believe all intelligent beings should get equal pay for equal work."

This includes races, genders, being offshore/onshore, being a shareholder or an employee etc.

I guess that means he recognized that he put his foot in his mouth.

My take is that he doesn't want to encourage anyone to initiate or challenge a raise. That's a pretty normal response from someone in a leadership position.

Like asking a bank the best way to avoid paying interest.

Hey guys, I didn't mean it from a _male_ perspective, I meant it from a _management_ perspective! It's okay that way!

Yes, it's nice that he's admitting he said the wrong thing (thanks to the Twitstorm), but let's not forgive him so quickly for showing us how management really thinks.

Pay is based on background + experience + knowledge and how much company see as valuable resource.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of women from India and China earning $100k salary in California itself.

If you average out salary across depth and breadth of jobs and complain women don't earn enough I pity you. Look out for "Flaw of averages" from Dr. Sam Savage of Stanford.

If you are competent what is literally stopping from changing company ? or Start your own business ?

Complaining that you get paid less because you are women is nothing but non-sense. Show me recent graduate girls ( women ) earning less than recent grad boys.

In US you don't just look at salaries. You look at total compensation which includes PTO, 401k, holidays etc etc. Each company is different so some companies might be paying low on salary but high on PTO. So all I am saying is you can't just average out and claim that you are getting paid less.

By the way how this is not gender discrimination ? Guess US does not follow its own law. There are thousands of men also who get paid less , go years without increase what about them ? Why no movement for them ?

US is following path of Scandinavian countries and it is very sad that it is in downward spiral.

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