Microsoft Xim | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft Xim

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229 pointsemadelwany112 comments

Once again Microsoft being pretty low-key with the fact that this is a Microsoft product just like they did with Sway. [1]

  * No mention in the title bar or above the fold.
  * First mention of Microsoft is in the footer.
  * iOS App Store and Google Play links are before the Window Phone Store.
  * Mockups include iOS looking device and Androidy Device (however the largest one might be a Windows Phone?)

[1] https://www.sway.com *Although they have now added this annoying Microsoft Toolbar dropdown-thingy which wasn't there on launch day. Interesting.

They also change the name from "Windows Intune" to just "Microsoft Intune", and did the same with "Windows Azure" to just "Microsoft Azure".

There is definately a shift with Microsoft under Nadella, and i think it can be seen with a alot of small details already.

[1] http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/10/window...

This is from FUSE labs which is a little team inside MS who do research on new experiences and such. They don't really produce 'products' like Office, OneDrive, etc. They make neat demos and if they get enough traction try to influence the bigger products to adopt them.

Kodu was more than a demo.

I love that direction. Recently stumbled upon "Microsoft Ajax Minifier" which is a prime example of the old way of naming things. What does compressing files have anything to do with async requests? At some point they were just giving the AJAX name to anything javascript related, without thinking or to not have "Java" appear in naming conventions.

> At some point they were just giving the AJAX name to anything javascript related

They shipped the ASP.NET Ajax Control Toolkit back in ~2008, when "Ajax" was generally synonymous with "JavaScript". Google's CDN was called the "AJAX Libraries CDN" until just a few years ago. It happens.

As I recall, the ASP.NET Ajax Control Toolkit did just that - it enabled AJAX functionality in WebForms.

Also, JavaScript is a first-class citizen in WinRT so I'm sure Oracle is getting some money from Microsoft for the brand.

I... I must be silly, but what does Oracle have to do with it?

JavaScript is a trademark owned by Oracle. They got it when they bought Sun.

I don't think that they can capitalize on that trademark now though.

For a moment I thought you were confusing Java with Javascript, but I see you're right. I hope this link is persistent: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4807:agd...

Most of the commonly-used functionality in Ajax Control toolkit were things like the date-picker, various animated widgets, and making the deployment guy scream and pull his hair out. The actual ajax-side of it was rarely used, in my experience.

"you can xim your photos"

Their attempt to use "xim" as a verb right from the start (hint to the marketing staff: it only happens after mass adoption) is very Microsofty. It's, in fact, a dead giveaway.

But, indeed, the presence of other phones along with Windows devices is refreshing, as is the multiple store links.

Not sure I like it, but I have to recognise Microsoft's effort in rebuilding their brand.

Yeah reminded me of Zune

Could you "zune" stuff around?

No, but you could "squirt" a song from one device to another. I wish I was making that up.

Microsoft does manage to make some really useful products and services. Even the Zune you mentioned had a service similar to the now-popular Spotify where you paid monthly for access to a full catalog and you could even choose 10 tracks to (permanently) keep each month so it wasn't solely a rental/subscription service.

But their marketing can be some of the worst I've seen coming from a major tech company.

Kind of reminds me of "snarfing" stuff in Plan-9.

For a second I thought it would be some kind of editor vim style but Microsoft made. But no, just an other photo app. Can you still generate any revenue out of this kind of app in 2014? I feel like the market is pretty dense already, between dropbox, instagram, flickr ... plenty of apps already in the landscape, why an other?

It's by Microsoft Research. Not everything they make is meant to be a direct revenue driver.

Keyword being "direct". Publicly no doubt they have mission statements that read like they're trying to save the planet. Privately, they are tasked with exploring the margins of new paths to revenue. (NOTE: pure speculation.)

I don't feel like you are very familiar with Microsoft Research. While I'm sure Microsoft ultimately expects to benefit from their work, it's pretty far out there to suggest that their mission is discovering revenue streams or anything like that. Like, do you really believe Microsoft intends to monetize Haskell?

Well. To be fair, facebook did.

Facebook uses Haskell as a revenue stream? I was not at all aware of that (and still am not really, after some Googling).

They use it to make money...HAXL is quite a competitive advantage for them.

I did mention that I was speculating, so yes, I'm not at all familiar with Microsoft Research.

However, I've yet to work at a place where I wasn't surrounded by p* managers who weren't falling over themselves to get involved with some new idea that would lead to revenue somehow. On the business side of the house, I don't think anyone gets up in the morning if it can't be linked to revenue.

So, yeah, I'm comfortable saying that Microsoft Research is swarming with people looking for new revenue streams. Swarming.

Well, I don't really doubt the idea that justifies the department's existence is that Microsoft Research will produce new developments that can be used in money-making products, but the research itself is not necessarily linked to revenue in any real way. For example, the Haskell programming language and the experimental Singularity OS are things that really have no chance of ever themselves making Microsoft money, but Microsoft Research drove their development nonetheless. The most obvious underlying motivation is not finding revenue streams, but pushing the state of the art in ways that Microsoft can learn from and use to improve other projects.

That is wrong, how? Revenue streams (and corresponding cash flows) are the lifeblood of any business. It's a nice notion to build an organization solely to do cool things but, if you don't make money somehow you'll go out of business and will never be able to do cool things.

Same here! The name made me think I was going to see a vim 2.0 by Microsoft. I'm sure the majority of their target audience wouldn't have this kind of reaction.

Wow, I exactly felt the same. Microsoft made a vim editor?!.

(I'm using XVim every day, so Xim brainfckd me very hard)

Putting the snark aside for a second, if this app works as well as it's claimed to, then I actually think it's an awesome idea. I really dislike handing my phone over to other people, even to show them a photo or video, and if I'm wanting to show something to 3+ people at once there's no truly convenient way to do that anyway. I've already installed this and will definitely be trying it out at the next opportunity.

I agree with the use case, but most of the time I show someone a photo, it a fairly quick process. Comparing (1) how you share photos now to (2) how you share photos w/ Xim: (1) "wanting to share photo-> pull out phone-> unlock phone-> open photos app-> select photo-> show people your phone" is a lot faster and easier than (2) "wanting to share photo-> pull out phone-> unlock phone-> open Xim-> select images-> add or select contacts* -> send message -> wait for others to receive message-> they pull out phone (if not already)-> they unlock phone-> they open the message-> they are redirected (to app or website)-> they can see the photo"

I don't think this use case is definitive, i just meant it as an illustration of "it will take longer to share photos with Xim."

I think this MIGHT be ok if you only had to go through a laborious process the first time you used the app or viewed a Xim, but I think you have to go through that whole process (minus the adding the contact) every time you share. This app is trying to work at that intersection of cyber- and meat-space, and I think the handoffs will just take too long.

The ironic use case--this could be a great tool for remotely sharing photos. But if you're doing that, wouldn't you be using your phone to talk with the other viewers about the photos? ;-(

* Seems more likely you're trying to show more than 1 photo, as it's fairly easy to show a single photo to many people. Similar to above, and like you were saying, it's fairly easy to show 1 or 2 people a series of photos on your phone.

what about distance? Can xim do it with my friend wherever they are?

Unlike many in the comments, I don't think this is a useless app. I don't particularly enjoy passing my phone around, and sometimes it's a nice way of showing everyone photos at the same time.

At first I thought this was Nokia Photobeamer v2 [1], but it appears to be a completely separate app.

[1]https://photobeamer.com/

This is a surprisingly simple idea which I'm surprised nobody else did first. Neat idea. +1 on you guys for making it so only one person needs the app too!

Interesting feat is only one person needs the Xim app installed for all to participate

Not really, you just get a URL to send to your friends

And who doesn't have a browser? I can't think of any better solution than this.

High quality photos means a big data hit, for those that don't have unlimited data. It also puts your photos in the cloud, which may not be desirable.

I'm guessing the app has a small built-in webserver - or perhaps relays through a 3rd party webserver - and the others join up in their browser using some kind of websocket like transport? Wonder if they direct the others to the app user's phone's internal wifi IP?

Doubt it's p2p, they probably just ship around a public url.

I just downloaded it and tried it. It is not P2P but cloud based. They said on the FAQ that those "Xims" (galleries) would expire after a while.

that would make sense but they keep more control when they use the cloud instead of a built-in web server

Actually, it wouldn't make that much sense. You couldn't guarantee that two phones were on the same network.

either way they have to be on the same network, cloud or no cloud, but anyways, most phones nowadays are connected to the Internet...

To use a local webserver, they would have to be on the same network (unlikely). To use the cloud based service, they would have to be on the internet (likely).

my local webserver is internet accessible (like many)

the web is available everywhere unlike the apps... (the app could even be web based)

Thank god; another way to share photos with my friends.

I know, right! I mean, there's already Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Flickr, Imgur, Dropbox, Google Drive, Google+, email, MMS, LinkedIn, Myspace, and hosting one's own site. But we need more options to share blurry photos of backgrounds or mediocre desserts.

We got the joke.

I assume the idea is to replicate the experience of projecting your vacation slides onto the wall and forcing your loved ones to watch?

Yes, and that's actually an activity I (and probably many others) enjoy.

Too bad the app can't be installed when you are living in Belgium from the Google Play Store(i don't see a valid reason)

Or the UK.

This localised internet is really starting to get to me.

Trying to turn it into a verb (xim it) and a noun (add to the xim). Aggressive marketing.

What's wrong with that?

Ask Zune folks how well squirt worked out for them.

I agree with your point, but I also want to point out that the term also has sexual connotations, which (in my experience) made up the bulk of the negative comments about it.

I agree, and its a rather nice way to advertise it. Like Google has done. (just Google it) :)

Didn't Google fight that, so that wouldn't get Kleenexed?

Yup. But no one says "Bing it"...

...except for Microsoft advertising materials.

Also Matthew Perry.

It's like giving yourself a nickname. It's annoying and self-defeating.

I think this app is actually pretty cool, especially in situations where you want to show family at a table photos from your latest trip or weekend adventures.

It is such a shame that the scroll performance on this site is so horrible (performance wise), scroll up and down and you will see this behaviour first-hand.

Strange, I used Chromepera and it reports < 10% CPU usage when scrolling the mouse like a maniac.

Nicely done, I'm a bit surprised there isn't more of this. When you see several people there with their phones and only one has the content everyone wants to see, it makes a lot of sense to be able to "cast" it to everyone's screen.

This reminds me so much of one of my favourite apps ever - Google Hello: http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2008-05-08-n15.html

My guess would be that we'll see more of these shared/sync'd experience apps in the future.

A phone is personal so experiencing the pictures on your phone makes it more personal.

I don't know if it exists already, but what I would like is a Bluetooth mixing app: say it is installed on my phone, I connect to speakers and I can play music from my phone. Buddies around can connect by Bluetooth to my phone and "play" some other track to me. Then a fader allows me to mix both tracks to the speakers.

Better details here: http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/microsoft-xim/36...

Excerpts:

• Xims only stick around for a little while so you can enjoy the moment with no storage or organization overhead

• Xim is available for iPhone, Android and Windows Phone 8 devices and works in most web browsers

• Xim will initially be available in US and Canada only; we plan to add additional country support shortly

I have to imagine that this is part of a larger plan to rope people into an MS ecosystem by getting folks to use useful utilities one at a time. I can think of another company that did this a few years back with disparate utilities: Google. Recall gmail, Picasa, Reader, Maps, etc. Standalone in the early 2000s and now if you use one, you likely use them all.

Also, a pretty unsubtle rebranding campaign: "Made with love by Microsoft Research FUSE Labs"??

> Recall gmail, Picasa, Reader, Maps, etc. Standalone in the early 2000s and now if you use one, you likely use them all.

I don't think I know anyone who uses 'them all' even from this small list. Of course, Reader doesn't even exist anymore. And I know no one who uses picasa as far as I know. People use gmail and maps, but not really as integrated components or because of their use of anything else in the google ecosystem.

I mean yes, I agree that this is a very google-ish strategy, but I also don't think it's really driven a lot of cross-app use. And when they tried to push G+ through that channel people screamed bloody murder at it.

Picasa doesn't exist any more as a standalone product - its backend is just what you use if you upload a photo to G+, or share a photo from an Android phone, these days.

Group within MS research, which runs more or less independent of MS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_FUSE_Labs http://fuse.microsoft.com/

not really branding as it is a one-off "what if we..." toy application

Not compatible with Moto G (Android KitKat), this is the first app I have came across which is not compatible with this device.

Edit - "Xim will initially be available in US and Canada only; we plan to add additional country support shortly" Ah!

Why did they call it "Xim"? Sounds like a x-window instant messenger to me.

Pretty sure something like this was on my Lumia from Nokia a year ago.

"Sorry, this app isn’t available in your market."

Windows Phone, UK.

WP is an uncool but useful friend of MS now :(.

Yup, same here. Nexus 5, Portugal. They probably region-locked it to the US.

This would be great if it was not limited to pictures. There still is not a great way to share your phone screen with a computer or another phone.

I don't see the point in this product when I can share photos with others using Dropbox, Google Drive or even OneDrive.

I think that it's not meant to replace those. It's meant to replace the act of passing your phone around in person — say, around a dinner table — in order to show photos to the people you're with.

So what's wrong with passing the phone around?

Now I have to ask everyone to pull out their phones.

"Mine is in my purse, let me go grab it" "I left mine in the car, oops" "My battery is dead"

Then I have to text/email them the link.

"I didn't get the link" "I have no service here"

Whereas, passing a phone literally takes a millisecond.

Nice that all of your friends are always in the same room with you.

It leaves you in control of the "show". If you have a series of pictures, for example, you pick when to move to the next photo, and can narrate as you do. You don't have to think about them flipping beyond the photos you wanted to share. They don't have to figure out how to work your phone.

It's certainly easier to pass around a phone, of course, but I can see the flaws.

This is a place where NFC would really be a step up though. Tap-to-share-screen, instead of having to find contacts and numbers and sending texts.

I tried it out - the person you're sharing the Xim with can also control the slideshow.

I agree. Whoever thought this was going to end up being less troublesome than passing a phone around (which is, admittedly, awkward) hasn't thought through the scenarios. There's no way a bunch of people at "dinner with friends" are all going to pull their phones out and start up a little photo-viewing LAN party.

I imagine it's to stop people from committing the social faux-pas whereby they're handed a phone, and they start swiping through pictures in the gallery (and possibly stumbling upon pictures the phone owner did not intend to be seen).

A lot of people don't like passing a phone around because in many cases the recipient, either out of force of habit or just snooping around, will keep scrolling through the rest of their photos.

I never really had any problems with sharing/showing photos, don't see the purpose in this app.

Not available for any of my devices. (Note 2 etc) I guess that means somebody forgot Europeans exist?

It requires a US phone number. I believe it will be rolled out internationally too, no idea of timelines though.

The group viewing is a nice idea. But I am not keen to put my photos into another garden.

Yeah, would be nice if this launched a little web server on your device with a temporary url for people to connect to. I feel like this is how social networking should work too, but that's a whole nother story.

Looks good. Not Available to my devices. I am guessing it is restricted by region.

I'm in Nigeria

Shame Android app is restricted by country - can't install it here in Poland

I thought for sure this would be a really efficient text editor.

I can't find the app in the Danish App Store. :-/

I'm not sure if I'll get much use out of this, but at least Microsoft is starting to release their software simultaneously on all three platforms. Hopefully others will follow suit.

If you go to /r/WindowsPhone, you will see complaints that MS releases / updates apps for iOS and Android much before WP.

Is the website down? Anyone have a cache?

Gonna give it a try sometime.

So uhhh. How do you pronounce Xim?

KS-im? Zz-im? SHim?

According to the way it was pronounced in the video on the bottom of the page, it's Zim.

Unlike everybody else, when it's Microsoft, iOS app comes the last.

Is that a joke? It's the first one on my screen.

Click on it.

Ah, that makes more sense. They're probably just waiting for it to get approved. The Android and Windows app approval process tends to be much faster in my experience.

This has Zune written all over it.

“wirelessly transfer a song you want to share to your zune friends, they can play it just a little bit"

Then Steve Jobs said something like:

“if you’re on the subway and want to share a song with someone cool, why fuck around with sending a demo song, just take off 1 earbud and listen to the music together"

Edit: "Just put it(the earbud) in her ear" http://gizmodo.com/207754/steve-jobs-on-zune-wifi-getting-yo...

>"Just put it(the earbud) in her ear"

There's a whole sharing earwax and hygiene thing I'm just not comfortable with there.

Marketing gimmick sometimes frustrates the hell out of me.

1. (No app required) - but the person hosting the photos need to install the app?

2. (Download on the Apple Store icon)- Yet clicking on it will give you a coming soon page. Will it kill you to put a "Coming Soon" text below the icon ?

Of course, I am still trying to wrap my head around the use case for this concept, especially when you have a dozen other ways to solve this problem. Oh wait, what was the problem again?

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