King of click: the story of the greatest keyboard ever made | Hacker News Reader

King of click: the story of the greatest keyboard ever made

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67 pointsjwaz55 comments

http://www.pckeyboard.com/

As I understand it, the IBM design and patents passed to this company where you can buy one today. No relation here except that I'm a satisfied customer.

At this point I think all the patents have just expired as they sold the division in 1990. I am using a Key Tronic "Lifetime series" keyboard that seems to be a fairly high quality knockoff. You still get the clicking key's and solid construction, but their not nearly as noisy.

I have the Unicomp keyboard linked above. I also have a Das Keyboard, old MS ergonomic thing, and old Apple Extended II, and a few others.

But my favorite of all of them is the Code Keyboard (I have two but the 'green' switch variant is my favorite). Which I learned about from this site, so thanks HN!

http://codekeyboards.com

What do you like about the Code Keyboard more than the other keyboards you own?

Oh, sorry that wasn't clear. I meant the typing action -- the balance of tactile response that 'you pressed the key' and the physical comfort of doing so.

That is the main evaluation point for me. The Unicomp is good too, but not as good, in my own subjective opinion. The 'Cherry MX Green' switched keyboard also makes a LOT less noise than the Unicomp, though it is still fairly noisy.

Due to the noise, I bought a 'Cherry MX Clear' Code keyboard to use at work. It is a bit quieter than the 'Green' model, but I feel it's tactile awesomeness suffers a little bit.

The Code keyboard is also backlit, which I really like.

I should note that the Code and the Unicomp are far and away better than the dozen or so other keyboards I have collected over the years. Only the Apple Extended II is comparably good (but different) in terms of tactile response.

I also have a unicomp, which I love, a Das Keyboard at work, and a Code keyboard at home. I have no idea about the different switches - how can you tell without buying them all? But yeah, the code keyboard is amazing, I just wish it had the USB hub like the Das does.

AFAIK the Code keyboard only offers Cherry MX switches in Green or Clear. I bought one of each. The Clear is quieter, so I use that one at work, but it doesn't feel as good to me.

Clears are 15cN lighter touch and a different switch style. Greens are basically heavy blues. It sounds like you type heavy.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX

http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduc...

Well, I have noticed that I definitely do bang harder on the keyboard depending on my excitement level.( That could mean I am having an inspired moment of coding, or just that somebody has once again posted to HN about the technological superiority of the modern Japanese toilet[1].)

In comparing the two Code keyboards, what I prefer about the Green version is that there seems to be this one exact point where the key is pressed. You can feel it (and hear it) and it is always the same.

The clear version feels a bit 'mushier', like the point at which the key is 'pressed' isn't as precisely defined.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4787587

Unicomp Inc. (as mentioned in the article) keeps pretty true to the Model M. Despite their old-looking website, they let you customize with a black body or blank keyfaces. These things are somewhat loud, but I think they feel great.

Sorry, I still prefer beige computer parts -- to my eyes, everything black makes everything too difficult to see without just a huge amount of light.

So, I had a tough time at the Unicomp site finding a keyboard with a beige base. They did seem to have one keyboard with a white base. I'd prefer beige.

After some looking, and without an easy to find explicit statement, eventually it appeared that the IBM Model M keyboard uses a standard PS/2 connector. Okay. And for people who want to connect such a keyboard to an USB port, apparently there are some simple converters.

Yes, I might like the buckling spring keys.

A keyboard I did like was from AnyKey shipped by Gateway with a copy of the function keys in two columns on the left. For some years, my left hand was nicely trained to hit those function keys possibly with the control key or the shift key -- I had my favorite text editor programmed to do something good with all 36 or so options. For the function key location above the numeric keys, have to look and reach, and for me that's less good.

Gee, I guess I'm the only one who still prefers beige!

You sent me back to the Unicomp site to check. I'm pretty sure that what you call beige, they call white. In fact I'm typing on one--I like beige too.

I credit the IBM Model-M with contributing substantially to the continued survival of the PS/2 port in this era of USB dominance. The PS/2 port has been around since 1987 and USB since 1996. Yes, USB is now twice as old as PS/2 was when USB was introduced! PS/2 ports have some advantages over USB that might have kept them alive in certain niches, but there are so many cherished Model M keyboards still in use (this post is being typed on one made in 1993) that no self-respecting motherboard designer would ever leave the PS/2 port out!

Typing this on one now... Still says, "IBM Personal Computer" in the top left corner. Someone painted the body of it black years ago. Clickety-clickety-clack! Third desktop I've used it with. Gave the keyboards that came with them away. The only thing I'm missing is the "Windows" key, but that's OK since I'm a Linux man, anyway. Love my keyboard. I feel like I'm accomplishing something when I type.

So I have a Model-M from around 1988ish in storage still. When I worked at IBM they were "green tag" parts which meant you did not have to account for them. Order 1 or order 100 (internally). I do love that keyboard. I think my favorite however is a Sun Type-5 which had a custom interface so you cannot plug it into anything but an old Sun. A few years ago I did a bit of googling and found a few projects to make a Sun-to-USB interface. Too much effort :(

Today I use a Sun Type-7 Japanese hooked to my Macbook. I had a need to write in Japanese in the past and just got to prefer the layout. I just custom ordered my Macbook in the US with the Japanese keyboard, etc. The placement of the @ and : are just better as an example.

My entire company is obsessed with keyboards. [I type on my Das cherry browns - tanked but not clicky]

We have, collectively, - Original 1983 Model M - Unicomp Model M - Das ultimate 3 cherry red - Das pro 4 cherry blue - Das pro 3 cherry brown

We're thinking of trying out the Keyboard.io butterfly split board....

Mechanical keyboards make a huge difference in typing speed, accuracy, and comfort - its worth the extra cost!

There's few feelings as good (that can be had sitting / standing [yes - I'm at a standing desk. Coder, hipster, ceo, startup data miner] at your computer) as your fingers floating over the keys without bottoming out.

Comfort is really an undermentioned point here. I've worked in a few offices that haven't been friendly to my Das (despite it having the "quiet" keys), but now that I'm working out of a home office, the clicks live on. And as someone who types for a living, I do notice that my fingers feel different after a few hours of hacking away on the Das than on my Apple bluetooth chicklet.

Ergodox kits are available now, if you don't mind assembling it yourself. I've had mine for a few months, and other than some problems with the reference firmware, I love it. Except for a Unicomp, I doubt I'll ever feel the need to buy a retail keyboard again.

I'd forgotten that the original PC keyboard had CapsLock in the lower-right corner, and how perfect that seemed to me at the time.

The current placement of CapsLock is horrible. I don't know why that ever became a standard.

Yep - the first thing I do on any computer is re-map CapsLock to Control.

I have two original PC/AT keyboards, and I love them, not just for their correct placement of the CONTROL key, but because they are if anything, even louder and more tactile than the model M. To connect them to my Mac I have to use two adapters, one to go from AT to PS/2, and another to go from PS/2 to USB.

To me, they're as close to you can get on a computer to the ultimate expression of keyboard perfection; the IBM Selectric.

I totally love the model-M (I've used it a great deal), and the model-M is inarguably a great keyboard, but calling it "greatest keyboard ever made" seems just silly hyperbole (OK, I know, I know... it's the verge what do I expect)... ><

There have been many keyboards every bit as wonderful as the model-M, and of course what constitutes "great" is obviously highly subjective. Buckling springs are nice, but they're just one of many good mechanisms.

I own a couple of Model M's and I've used them for a while but you are absolutely correct. The Model M was succeeded by Cherry and Alps keyboards, which are in my opinion superior.

The Cherry and Alps keyboards in their turn were succeeded by the rubber dome keyboards which most people use today. Unfortunately rubber dome keyboards although fantastically quiet and cheap, do not type nearly as nice as the Cherry/Alps or buckling spring keyboards.

If you're looking for the feeling described by those Model M lovers, definitely do check out keyboards marketed as being 'mechanical'. Thanks to a recent revival of enthousiasm for good keyboards under gamers and tech geeks many brands have started producing them, and it's now possible to get them at very reasonable prices.

Just as my personal recommendation: if you want one that will last you a lifetime, get a Filco (they're quite expensive), and replace the keycaps with PBT ones (it's a better plastic for this purpose, also what the Model M uses). It's what I've been using for the past 5 years. You can put off the replacing of the keycaps for 2-3 years, longer if you don't mind slippery keys, PBT ones don't wear like that.

I'd also note that there were even some keyboards of "the time" that aimed to improve on the Model-M in terms of the size and layout of certain keys. I still own a couple of Northgates although they're past their useful life at this point. I even had them fixed and cleaned out a decade or so back.

I do like the clicky keyboards though--whether or not those working nearby did as I'm a definite keyboard pounder :-)

I loved my old Next keyboards; also, the Apple Ergonomic; and the Sun classics. I've used the classic Model M as well as the Unicomp versions. I currently use Kinesis Advantage. All are excellent. There is no one keyboard to rule them all.

Back in the '80s, I used a VT100 long enough that a substantial portion of the matte finish was worn smooth where my palm rubbed when using the cursor keys, as well as half of the space bar. I still miss having the cursor keys where I could reach them without bending my wrist or raising my arm.

My Model M is dated from 1993, the same year I graduated from high school. I gave it a thorough cleaning this year: took all the keys off, washed them individually, snapped them back on. It almost feels like new now.

My use even got people in my Chinese office more interested in better keyboards; a couple of them have purchased expensive mechanical keyboards for use at work, which is basically unheard of here (though you can buy them on Taobao).

These things are fantastic (I used to own a Unicomp), though of the "modern" mechanical keyboards, which is the best? The Reddit r/MechanicalKeyboards buying guide[0] lists a lot of stuff, but I'm curious what HN likes.

[0] http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/buying_guid...

Kinesis Advantage (split grid) keyboards. Alternatively, anything with cherry MX blue or MX brown switches, preferably without the 10 key/keypad section. Accountants are probably the only people who should actually have a 10-key built into their keyboards.

> Accountants are probably the only people who should actually have a 10-key built into their keyboards.

Those who still play MUDs with a client might like to have them too, although whether they should be playing MUDs in 2014 is another question.

You can get standalone numeric keypads. How else could accountants and MUD players survive with a laptop?

For this reason I don't understand why it remains the norm for PC desktop keyboards to include them, despite their use being the exception.

you can even get mechanical 10keys too. I like having a 10 key for working in 3D (Blender). If one is savvy enough in autohotkey or other keyboard customization, you could map the 10key to useful functions and label the keys with stickers or if standard keycaps, get some custom caps made.

Awesome. I've been meaning to pick up a Kinesis Advantage—the combination of MX Brown switches plus ergonomic keyboard is great. I had the Freestyle2 which was less than great. I've been typing on Apple chicklet keyboards for years and while they're actually not that bad, they're not ergonomically sound at all.

I think the chiclet keys are an ergonomic silver-bullet - RSI probably comes from years of us typing on deep keys in high keyboards.

Chiclets are actually worse on your fingers because they shock-load your fingers when they bottom out. Mechanical keyboards are much easier on your fingers because you can feel when the key is activated, and sometimes hear it. This lets you know that you can stop pressing before the key bottoms out and there's much less force put through your fingers.

Never thought of that—that explains a lot of the fatigue I get from typing on them for long periods of time. I know that certain Cherry MX keys do the same. Which ones don't bottom out too harshly?

Yeah, the grids are much nicer. I can use the normal numbers now almost as fast as many of my friends can use a 10 key, and I never forget where symbols are for programming since everything is lined up quite nicely.

>Accountants are probably the only people who should actually have a 10-key built into their keyboards.

I use mine a lot for flight sims. I'm sure MMO players don't mind having extra keystrokes.

Sure, but I would think those are both pretty small minorities relatively speaking, and these people surely feel and understand the need for a keypad. There's also separate 10-key pads that you can use so that your mouse is in a sane place except when you need to punch in a lot of numbers.

I love my Kinesises (Kinesis? Kinesis-s?) but I wish that there was more experimentation in keyboards; I always wonder about chording keyboards, for instance; or a better HID interface than what we get with generic USB drivers. It's just not quite irritating enough to get me out of the ruts of path dependence, I guess.

I buy mine from Unicomp, and have been pretty satisfied. Although admittedly I've only ever bought two, and both of them have survived years of use.

I mostly use laptops and the terrible keyboards on almost all modern PC laptops (especially the cursor keys, which are often barely usable) is one of the factors that made me switch to Apple. On my desktop I have a slight variant of this:

http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/quickfi...

While it is pitched as a gaming keyboard, it doesn't have any of the oddities that monicker tends to imply. It comes with a set of red WASD keys, but they are optional.

As far as I know, it's the smallest full-size keyboard with proper Cherry MX keys. No layout stupidity either: all the keys are where they should be (pg-up, pg-down, home, end, etc.); only the unnecessary numeric keypad is left off so that desk space is not wasted. Perfect.

The only problem is they can be difficult to find, so I had to make do with Cherry MX Brown keys (non-tactile, non-clicky) rather than Blue (clicky), which I would have preferred.

I personally have been using a Steelseries 7G for a looong time now and it still feels great. Full size, n-key, no macros, and a replacement for the left Windows key that goes to a couple limited global media controls.

Though now that new Das Keyboard model (V4?) is tempting me...

Razer Blackwidow. Loud keyboard.

I fall in love with the Model M working at my first job with IBM workstations. The feeling of the typing at the fingertips is just the best. The sound is just of second nature. I know no other keyboard that has that precise and sensitive force-feedback (meaning: the buckling happens just at that point, when the key is recognized -- so you can exactly feel (and hear) it).

-- written with my own Model M

Are there any wireless keyboards like this? I am the unfortunate owner of a cat who really really likes chomping through smaller cables.

Haven't seen one. A real model M keyboard cable is not small though. It is pretty thick and sturdy. Kitty would have to work pretty hard at it. Maybe a few chew toys would help it and divert its attention.

Some of the Filco keyboards have bluetooth. I was pretty tempted by this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Majestouch-Bluetooth-Keyboard-FFBT67M-...

The Model M is absolutely fantastic, if you've never used a proper mechanical keyboard you really should. I'm significantly more productive coding or general writing on my MX-Blues then the chiclet keyboard of my Macbook - it's a huge difference.

Agreed, I'm typing this on a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry MX-Blues. It's a fun keyboard that I actually look forward to using every day just for its own sake.

If anybody is after one:

  http://www.clickykeyboards.com/

An alternative that I use is the Dell L100. It's not quite as heavy as the IBM, but they have a nice solid feel, they're USB and you can get them new for under $40.

Those keyboards are superb. My first encounter were with a ibm serial terminal, then on some old pc where this one were scavenged.

-- Sent from my IBM Model M keyboard.

I type on a 1995-vintage laptop M keyboard (M6-1), adapted with a custom board and a microcontroller. It has the strong tactility with less noise.

I use one and love it.

It is just so satisfying to type on it. It has the perfect design it seems. Keys just the right spacing just the right clicky-ness.

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